DramaAjumma

I love that you mention Steve Rogers because he is a nice guy that I really like but while he's not ambitious, he has principles that he believes in. A man without that is a nothing even if he is the best lover in the world.

This "real life" argument doesn't apply anyway because a show with gods and monsters operate under a different set of rules.

I feel that I'm really getting old because you'd think that used to be common sense. But I guess my generation (X) and the boomers are probably to be blamed for the state of things. :P

You've highlighted one of the problems of contemporary Hollywood and their independent girl bosses. It doesn't seem to be working all that well for them in large part. Honestly the fact that women who make up most of the viewership of Asian dramas still prefer romance above all other genres is telling. The data is undeniable especially on this site where romance shows even with the thinnest of plots get higher ratings than better written shows in other genres. The showrunners know this which is why they insert romantic plots in the vast majority of their shows.

It's a fascinating contradiction that you thrown a spotlight on and I wish you got more likes for pointing it out. I think we had that conversation earlier in that thread when I raised the Puppy male phenomenon. He is as much a fantasy trope as the Bad Boy who Comes Good. No such man exists. Nor should he. But I just have a really tough time imagining any man especially of an aristocratic status in the ancient world who goes around weepy over a woman when he has so many responsibilities and is the leader of his clan. I can imagine him fighting for her or killing for her or giving up and just moving on. This is my one criticism of this story. It's tonally jarring and takes me out of the experience. Even if he misses her, his eye would always be on the big picture. Even in our day if a man was this slavishly devoted, we'd be questioning his motives and his family members would be prodding him to have a bit more spine.

I don't think people care about equality as much as we think. What I think is going on is who gets to dictate the terms of the relationship rather than a process of accommodation.

I write from the perspective of a story analyst and drama reviewer. As far as I'm concerned critiquing characters, performances, showrunners and authors are fair game. If anyone publishes a work to be seen publicly, they are potentially opening themselves up to criticisms. That said I think we can have civilized discussions about our differences in opinion. Commenters should have the right to say why they like certain characters over and against other characters without having to justify it. Not liking characters is a normal part of reviewing a show. The trick is to avoid taking these criticisms personally as somehow a direct attack on your own preferences. In a reverse harem situation people will always have male leads they like over and above others. It's normal. We all come from different backgrounds, have different life experiences, different exposure to stories. It's not helpful to presume we know what people are thinking and why they think the way they do. Lost You Forever is a show about gods, monsters and throne politics -- how does that reflect any part of our 21st century everyday realities and sensibilities? As it is one of my criticisms of the show is that it tries a bit too hard to appeal to modern sensibilities. Hence my critique of Tushan Jing. But that's just one opinion among many. It would be far easier for me if I did like the character more because I usually... almost always... support the main romance.

It's not beyond the pale that people would prefer antiheroes and villains over and against a nice protagonist.

I sometimes think we don't consider enough the role actors play in why we love a character as much as we do. I have no doubt that the popularity of Xiang Liu has to do in large part with Tan Jianci's tour de force performance. I just love watching him be Xiang Liu -- the subtle eye shifts, the movement of his cheeks, his gait changes. To me ironically his best acting comes from the fact that he's holding himself back and his occasional lapses when he almost gives in to his feelings. The way he imbues the character with humanity blows me away.

I've been watching television for decades and I've seen first hand over the years various ship wars because people are just passionate about their favourite characters. I'm rather used to it. But I don't think we need to turn everything into a competition or battleground.

I had no trouble following the the storyline but I'm a seasoned viewer of historical and C dramas. I had heard it was a fantasy drama and I don't usually watch that genre but was surprised to discover how grounded it was. That said, there are a lot of different characters and it's not hard to see why anyone might get a little lost in the weeds. The trick is to start with the FL and then try to remember other characters in relation to her. Those early episodes were a lot of fun and humorous.
I didn't find the pacing that slow.

I do remember that. Not surprising considering the context.

I definitely excited for Part 3. And Wu Lei in a historical drama... always something to look forward to.
I love Joy of Life too.

I was hoping it would although I've been watching it on Viki.

I'm guessing it's the puppy effect.

Of course. It's what got me back into watching C dramas. It's still my favourite. The second was good but the last 10 episodes brought the show down.

I know how you feel. At least Tushan Jing gets something akin to a comeuppance. There's some joy in his misery.

Fantastic character. Wu Lei was great in it.

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What I meant was if the rumours are true then it is a blessing in disguise.

I think it is. I'm not sure I can handle any more of his weepy demeanour.

I guess he's fox after all. In another show, Jing could be a con man. :D

I'm a mother of two young women, it's something I think about from time to time.

He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. He lives in a zero sum game world but he's trying please everyone. Not possible.

So I am done.
The old man was fantastic in that final episode. His soliloquy was bordering on Shakespearean. The actor is undoubtedly classically trained. Superb delivery. LOL. I'm trying to remember who he was in Sword Snow Stride. Who knew... the former of king of Xiyan is a bit of a trickster. But in earnestness, it was always on his heart to reunite the country and he finally found someone in his family who had a genuine vision for the future of the land and wasn't just about maintaining the status quo. The reuniting of the land will hopefully bring about lasting peace and it's a worthy agenda to get behind.

The last few episodes are some of my favourite because this is why I show up for historical/period shows. I care less about historical rigour than for historical authenticity. I watch historical drama mainly for politics, the tragic vision of life and the complexity of human nature. If we're meant to have a romance, it needs to be big or epic... larger than life. Especially if it's based in very ancient mythology. It's tonally jarring otherwise. That's my opinion for whatever it's worth.

I'm probably in minority in that I would have preferred a little more of the tribal politics that we saw towards the end. It would have contributed a lot more to the world building and helped me get my head around the names of the clans and the geography a lot sooner.

Try as I might, I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for Tushan Jing. Maybe it's the actor. Maybe it's the way he's written. Or his entire function in the storyline. Yes, he does contribute in some small part to the rise of Cang Xuan but with the way the narrative unfolds here, his character is very much tethered to Xiao Yao and honestly he's helping Cang Xuan because of her as well.

I like the fact that apart from a few exceptions, that most people in this show are pretty hard headed about the world that they live in. It's much easier to get behind the way that they deal with marriages and courtship for the most part. I came to respect Xinyue a lot more towards the end as well as we gained insight into her thought process. She thinks and acts like a woman of her time. There's a pragmatism that I find surprisingly refreshing especially in contrast to A'Nian. Even Xiao Yao learnt something from her.

As far as the desire line is concerned, there's little doubt that Cang Xuan is the male lead. The story started with him and the show ends with him at its centre. I suspect that the show overdid the romance to the point that his arc took a back seat to the harem doings. Gaining the throne came at a huge price to him. But timing didn't work in his favour either. Sure, he could put all his eggs in the Xiao Yao basket but he had the bigger picture in mind. Somebody has to rule the country. Someone has to make changes for the better. Someone has to think of the greater good. It's a zero sum game no doubt as it was in Scarlet Heart. But his love for Xiao Yao is also great. It is self-sacrificing love. He prioritize her safety and happiness over his feelings. This is a sign of a good leader.

Then there's my favourite guy. Or nine-headed serpent. The antihero. The promise of an epic romance. A promise of tragedy. After Episode 37, I kind of understood why he would have to shuffle off this mortal coil at some point. If he didn't Xiao Yao would be forever torn between two men. I also think he's the adult in the room. Because he's the outsider, he knows there's no chance for him and it would hurt her in the long run -- her reputation in tatters most likely. If she had remained as Wen Xiaoliu, I think he would have fought much harder to keep her. I wished she had stayed as Wen Xiaoliu but she wanted to help Cang Xuan and Dad also intervened. But he too is a man with responsibilities and commitments. I respect that. I appreciate it too that he wants her to be stronger. Dang it's the classic push and pull that goes nowhere. It's a darn shame because I would love for them to go travelling in that clam shell and make babies in it.

I feel a fanfic coming on. It's not a strong urge at this point and I'm working on other projects. I'm also considering a re-watch. I wish I had watched this while it was airing so that I could have blogged the entire show like I did with Love Like the Galaxy.

LOL. I love it.