I've made it to Episode 13 so far. The whodunit side of things is pretty good. The case of the phoenix head has some interesting features to it. I'm reminded of one of my favourite detective shows Jonathan Creek.
I hope that what I'm watching in Episode 9 is a parody and a hyperbole because the length Soo-a's mother is going is insane. If this has really happened in SK, I feel really sorry for the children. No wonder Soo-a is presenting psychosomatic symptoms of stress.
But this is a Korean drama. There's always another reason. :P Besides, the show has already hinted that he has…
Okay. Thank you for your answer. I wanted to take my time to answer you properly since I started this whole thing. Busy weekend and all that.
I suppose you are appealing to some kind of consensus that I'm not in agreement with about where that line where divorce becomes acceptable. This position also seems to assume that when a marriage reaches that point, it is unsalvageable. It also seems to assume that people who have those feelings never come back from it. That's the bone of contention for me. For me feelings lack objectivity and changes from day to day. As we now see because he wants to have another shot at it, he's feelings have changed again. Like we all agree, it's messy. Especially when people live their lives driven by feelings.
As I've also said in a previous post, I don't necessarily believe everything that characters say about themselves and in this case, Eun-beom. It's something he said in embarrassment. I think the audience has every right to wonder and question because of the way he gets heebie jeebies everytime his sister's name is mentioned. He is evasive about it. Besides he lied about the adultery business so for me the question is -- what else is he lying about? So I think it is reasonable that viewers, myself included would think that the "suffocation" rationale is not the full story.
My own understanding from the little we've been shown is that Eun-beom was exhausted from living with Ha-ra. There's no doubt in my mind that he had been existing on an empty tank for some time. I don't think it was abuse. And I have no difficulty believing that she's a difficult person to live with from the little I've seen. She's very self-centred but he fed that too by letting her get away with her thoughtlessness. However, what's very interesting and telling is that three years later he's still cleaning up after her. It could mean that the "suffocation" rationale wasn't the actual reason. Despite the fact that she sends 10 text messages in the middle of a murder trial no less, he decides at the end of this that he wants to follow his heart.
This is a philosophical problem not one I necessarily have with the show because it is in all likelihood holding up a mirror to what's going on in the world. It's as if the whole world is living some kind of protracted experiment and abandoning age old wisdom while a lot of people are getting hurt as a result.
But this is a Korean drama. There's always another reason. :P Besides, the show has already hinted that he has…
In my decade long experience with K dramas, I can safely say that they never pull punches on abuse. If it were abuse of any kind, it would have been shown clearly. I've never seen a K drama just "imply" abuse. If it was indeed abuse, it would be obvious to everyone.
The fact that he's decided to give it another shot tells me that he was just exhausted from having to deal with her narcissism. In the end it comes across as if Eun-beom was just having a holiday from Ha-ra.
I think people want more because the ML reason for breakup was valid but his action was not yes it's a good point…
The reality is that the show itself demonstrates that there are unresolved issues between them so whatever reason drove Eun-beom to make an adultery story up to facilitate the divorce hasn't been dealt with even from his point of view. Now they're getting back together again because as he says in his own words "I want to follow my own heart". So he's changed his mind. Probably. So he's capable of changing his own mind about whether or not this relationship is desirable.
What's obvious to me is that Eun-beom was exhausted. From her bossy attitude and for cleaning up after her on demand. The tank was empty. But as far as we know he never told her this. And the interesting thing is that because he was never honest about this, he is still cleaning up after her even now. For a guy who wanted to get away from his ex, he signed up with her law firm, he helped in cases, he picked up her client when she had a family crisis. She's hassling him 10X in the middle of a murder trial and he still wants to "try again" at the end of all that.
This tells me too that there's "other baggage" and in all likelihood the show will explore that. From my personal experience, when people walk away from a relationship it is seldom just one thing. It doesn't have to be trauma either.
But this is a Korean drama. There's always another reason. :P Besides, the show has already hinted that he has…
Thank you for that comment. My personal experience however is the opposite. And it's possible that my experience is very narrow and I don't have to deal with that side of life. However, I know of (and have heard of) people who walked away from marriages for reasons other than domestic violence. In fact individuals have made up lies about their spouses to have an out. I think we can agree at least that something like this -- a carte blanche in effect -- can be exploited by people for their own ends.
I should add too that I don't have a very high view of human nature because if anyone can find a loophole and exploit it, they will.
But this is a Korean drama. There's always another reason. :P Besides, the show has already hinted that he has…
No fault divorce has been the scourge of marriage and families. I don't disagree that we should have been given a lot more insight into the marriage. But was he being abused? That's open to debate. I don't think it's that clear from what we've seen. I think you're extrapolating a lot more than what is in evidence. Why did he not say to her that he was feeling abused then? Why didn't he go to court suing her for abuse but made up a cock bull story about adultery instead?
I like this show a lot probably even more than Crash Course. Although the characters are often frustrating to watch, I accept that the show is trying to present a nuanced, complex picture of human beings as seen in the trial showcased in the last two episode. However, just because the characters here are behaving in a way that is consistent with who they are since Day 1, I don't feel obligated to subscribe to a deterministic view of human beings or that I have to approve of their choices. It's also rather uninteresting from a storytelling point of view to see characters do the same things over and over again expecting a different result. Because the show contains a certain amount of unpredictability, I can't be certain if the leads will stay together right to the end but at the very least, I hope that there will be some kind of growth arc for the main characters.
But this is a Korean drama. There's always another reason. :P Besides, the show has already hinted that he has…
I don't know what you mean by "invalidate" because from my reading of the usage here that assumes that he has a "natural" right to end the relationship on his own. Where does this right come from? The fact is he knew that he didn't have any good legal grounding to end the marriage except to confect an adultery charge. If he really thought his reason for divorcing Ha-ra was "valid" why didn't he use that to end the marriage? Because he knew it wouldn't be sufficient justification for her and in the eyes of the law. His prevarication hurt her (and maybe there are those who think she deserves it) and it gave her the wrong message about what really went wrong so she keeps acting in that same narcissistic way.
Many here probably assume that marriage is just about the two people. But that's not how marriage is seen by societies traditionally. There are social and legal ramifications when marriages don't pan out. The social disruption is real. There are entitlements and property rights to deal with. Not to mention children. The show itself shows this. This is the value that society places marriage as an institution. The taxpayer is picking up the tab in the criminal justice system at the very least. It's only very recently that marriage is perceived to be about personal happiness.
I obviously come from a very different perspective about human beings. It seems to me that we used to believe that people can change through difficult times either on their own, with the help of others or through some miraculous intervention.
I don't get why people continue to say "there is more to his reason to divorce" when being unhappy and feeling…
But this is a Korean drama. There's always another reason. :P Besides, the show has already hinted that he has sister issues -- a much younger sister that he practically raised.
Personally I don't think feeling suffocated alone is sufficient reason for separation if you've not even made any attempt to discuss it with your spouse and work things out. Counselling should have been the next step if they couldn't resolve it on their own. Learning conflict resolution is a vital part of marriage. Eun-beom is so bad at confrontations although of late, he seems to be improving.
What I appreciate about this drama is that it's trying to do something a bit different. The jury is still out on whether it's a failure or success at this point because quite clearly the show doesn't follow the rom com tropes to a T. In fact, it is quite clearly subverting quite a number of them. Writing leads that are deeply flawed is quite the challenge because a good writer has to come back from that and "redeem" them in a convincing manner during the resolution phase.
For me, though, while I'm keen to see the writer peel away the layers, I'm not convinced that we should necessarily "believe" everything characters tell us about themselves. Just because Eun-beom says he's not cut out for marriage, doesn't mean he isn't. That's only what he thinks at a particular time. The wonderful thing about human beings is that they can change their minds on a whole range of things. My feeling about this particular cast of characters is that most of them don't really know what they want from life. Success in one's profession doesn't equate to success in relationships. The other thing that is noteworthy is that though the firm specializes in divorce, the legal experts are no wiser about how healthy/functional relationships should be conducted. This theme is replicated right through from the leads to their respective families. Divorce is a symptom not a solution. It's an exit strategy with trade-offs. It may offer respite but it doesn't necessarily solve deep-seated emotional issues that led to the problems in the marriage in the first place. Divorce could well be a way... and I believe it is true for Eun-beom... to evade problems that are bound to surface eventually. The whole time I've seen him, it feels like he's running away from something but it's not marriage. This is not to say that Ha-ra did everything right BUT if he had honestly and graciously addressed the way she was encroaching his boundaries during their marriage, I suspect that they both would have been better off for it. They both learnt nothing from their divorce. Indeed I tend to think that they've learnt the wrong things from it.
The reason why I say this is because Ha-ra's relationship with Jae-gyeom is raising red flags. Not because of Jae-gyeom necessarily although I think he's being rather silly as well. Ha-ra is letting him cross lines/take liberties because she is reacting from what Eun-beom told her about why he "really" divorced her. She feels obligated to respond positively to everything Jae-gyeom does because she thinks it's entirely her fault that her marriage to Eun-beom failed. Jae-gyeom, to my mind, is in far too much of a hurry to seal the deal with Ha-ra when he knows full well at least that she's not all in. I don't doubt his sincerity but I question his strategy. He is too desperate and it shows. Ha-ra is unfortunately leading him on not deliberately but because on paper, he seems almost perfect. She thinks she should be in love with him because he checks off boxes so she overaccommodates him. It's a compensatory mechanism. But of course that's not how it works in reality. It's all very uncomfortable to watch.
I think the writer is good because he/she doesn't take sides. He/she shows all sides with honesty. Relationships are often difficult to get right and potentially messy. The old saying that "it takes two to tango" is absolutely true.
It's quite a unique approach to the genre. It's not exactly Columbo but perhaps it's because I am taken with Jing Boran's charismatic portrayal of Lan Jue that I'm rooting for his character to get away with everything. He has antihero tendencies which makes him fascinating to watch. His calculating nature is very appealing. The cat and mouse game is kind of fun. If the two men ever become partners-in-crime, he would be Mycroft to Zhang Ping's Sherlock.
4 
https://40somethingahjumma.substack.com/p/crash-course-in-romance-2023-episodes-ad8
I suppose you are appealing to some kind of consensus that I'm not in agreement with about where that line where divorce becomes acceptable. This position also seems to assume that when a marriage reaches that point, it is unsalvageable. It also seems to assume that people who have those feelings never come back from it. That's the bone of contention for me. For me feelings lack objectivity and changes from day to day. As we now see because he wants to have another shot at it, he's feelings have changed again. Like we all agree, it's messy. Especially when people live their lives driven by feelings.
As I've also said in a previous post, I don't necessarily believe everything that characters say about themselves and in this case, Eun-beom. It's something he said in embarrassment. I think the audience has every right to wonder and question because of the way he gets heebie jeebies everytime his sister's name is mentioned. He is evasive about it. Besides he lied about the adultery business so for me the question is -- what else is he lying about? So I think it is reasonable that viewers, myself included would think that the "suffocation" rationale is not the full story.
My own understanding from the little we've been shown is that Eun-beom was exhausted from living with Ha-ra. There's no doubt in my mind that he had been existing on an empty tank for some time. I don't think it was abuse. And I have no difficulty believing that she's a difficult person to live with from the little I've seen. She's very self-centred but he fed that too by letting her get away with her thoughtlessness. However, what's very interesting and telling is that three years later he's still cleaning up after her. It could mean that the "suffocation" rationale wasn't the actual reason. Despite the fact that she sends 10 text messages in the middle of a murder trial no less, he decides at the end of this that he wants to follow his heart.
This is a philosophical problem not one I necessarily have with the show because it is in all likelihood holding up a mirror to what's going on in the world. It's as if the whole world is living some kind of protracted experiment and abandoning age old wisdom while a lot of people are getting hurt as a result.
The fact that he's decided to give it another shot tells me that he was just exhausted from having to deal with her narcissism. In the end it comes across as if Eun-beom was just having a holiday from Ha-ra.
What's obvious to me is that Eun-beom was exhausted. From her bossy attitude and for cleaning up after her on demand. The tank was empty. But as far as we know he never told her this. And the interesting thing is that because he was never honest about this, he is still cleaning up after her even now. For a guy who wanted to get away from his ex, he signed up with her law firm, he helped in cases, he picked up her client when she had a family crisis. She's hassling him 10X in the middle of a murder trial and he still wants to "try again" at the end of all that.
This tells me too that there's "other baggage" and in all likelihood the show will explore that. From my personal experience, when people walk away from a relationship it is seldom just one thing. It doesn't have to be trauma either.
I should add too that I don't have a very high view of human nature because if anyone can find a loophole and exploit it, they will.
I don't disagree that we should have been given a lot more insight into the marriage. But was he being abused? That's open to debate. I don't think it's that clear from what we've seen. I think you're extrapolating a lot more than what is in evidence.
Why did he not say to her that he was feeling abused then? Why didn't he go to court suing her for abuse but made up a cock bull story about adultery instead?
So why is he getting back with her?
Many here probably assume that marriage is just about the two people. But that's not how marriage is seen by societies traditionally. There are social and legal ramifications when marriages don't pan out. The social disruption is real. There are entitlements and property rights to deal with. Not to mention children. The show itself shows this. This is the value that society places marriage as an institution. The taxpayer is picking up the tab in the criminal justice system at the very least. It's only very recently that marriage is perceived to be about personal happiness.
I obviously come from a very different perspective about human beings. It seems to me that we used to believe that people can change through difficult times either on their own, with the help of others or through some miraculous intervention.
Personally I don't think feeling suffocated alone is sufficient reason for separation if you've not even made any attempt to discuss it with your spouse and work things out. Counselling should have been the next step if they couldn't resolve it on their own. Learning conflict resolution is a vital part of marriage. Eun-beom is so bad at confrontations although of late, he seems to be improving.
For me, though, while I'm keen to see the writer peel away the layers, I'm not convinced that we should necessarily "believe" everything characters tell us about themselves. Just because Eun-beom says he's not cut out for marriage, doesn't mean he isn't. That's only what he thinks at a particular time. The wonderful thing about human beings is that they can change their minds on a whole range of things. My feeling about this particular cast of characters is that most of them don't really know what they want from life. Success in one's profession doesn't equate to success in relationships. The other thing that is noteworthy is that though the firm specializes in divorce, the legal experts are no wiser about how healthy/functional relationships should be conducted. This theme is replicated right through from the leads to their respective families. Divorce is a symptom not a solution. It's an exit strategy with trade-offs. It may offer respite but it doesn't necessarily solve deep-seated emotional issues that led to the problems in the marriage in the first place. Divorce could well be a way... and I believe it is true for Eun-beom... to evade problems that are bound to surface eventually. The whole time I've seen him, it feels like he's running away from something but it's not marriage. This is not to say that Ha-ra did everything right BUT if he had honestly and graciously addressed the way she was encroaching his boundaries during their marriage, I suspect that they both would have been better off for it. They both learnt nothing from their divorce. Indeed I tend to think that they've learnt the wrong things from it.
The reason why I say this is because Ha-ra's relationship with Jae-gyeom is raising red flags. Not because of Jae-gyeom necessarily although I think he's being rather silly as well. Ha-ra is letting him cross lines/take liberties because she is reacting from what Eun-beom told her about why he "really" divorced her. She feels obligated to respond positively to everything Jae-gyeom does because she thinks it's entirely her fault that her marriage to Eun-beom failed. Jae-gyeom, to my mind, is in far too much of a hurry to seal the deal with Ha-ra when he knows full well at least that she's not all in. I don't doubt his sincerity but I question his strategy. He is too desperate and it shows. Ha-ra is unfortunately leading him on not deliberately but because on paper, he seems almost perfect. She thinks she should be in love with him because he checks off boxes so she overaccommodates him. It's a compensatory mechanism. But of course that's not how it works in reality. It's all very uncomfortable to watch.
I think the writer is good because he/she doesn't take sides. He/she shows all sides with honesty. Relationships are often difficult to get right and potentially messy. The old saying that "it takes two to tango" is absolutely true.