Eleison

I personally thought many of the men were interesting and complex. They weren't all villains or all buffoons or all stupid or all perfect; some were more flawed than others, but they all felt layered and human to me.

I think it also showed the contrast between how men during this time approached the world/their lives/their family, and how women did. Their priorities and opportunities and perspectives weren't the same.

I just think the focus was shifted to women, just as this drama also focused more on the plights and perspectives of the "underdog" than the privileged.

Maybe it was cut from the final show? I don't remember it being in the drama.

I don't think the drama ignored men or was anti-men, it just wasn't telling their story.

And while it maybe could have been slightly more balanced in showing "good" men, I don't think I agree that the men were all props of the women's stories.

We never see him asking the prince/emperor, we just find out about the marriage when the decree is ready to Lan Xiang and her family.

Sure! I'll do so when it seems appropriate or I get the urge. 😅

Me, too

I agree with this take except that I personally wouldn't call it a "feminist" perspective. I think we can call this a "humanist" perspective. It's giving a humanist perspective, in that it's humanizing women. 😏

It doesn't feel appropriate for this couple, either.

I think it's appropriate. Her husband literally forced a marriage on her. She has a devoted, smitten husband who adores the ground she walks on, but he still robbed her dignity. I think the fact that she is kind, respectful, and loyal but not much more is realistic, if not super romantic. Some actions, while they can be forgiven, can make it so that a certain level of repair is impossible.

I don't know, it doesn't seem necessary in this based on the way the story has presented her and Jin Qi. I don't think it's ever been about showing a full-blown, head-over-heals romance that's showcased by each spouse equally. The story has leaned more historically accurate despite some obvious anachronisms peppered throughout, so it makes sense to me that unspoken affection and loyalty from Lan Xiang is already more than appropriate for her to feel towards him based on her situation. It makes sense to me that she is devoted, but not smitten or sentimental. Nothing can ever undo what Jin Qi did, and while Lan Xiang has clearly forgiven him, actions have consequences that can never be erased.

Yes, it's what I'm coming to see, too.

Xing Tang's "prophetic" moment in Episode 36 felt a little on the nose, but it still made me grateful to think I (personally) live in a world she envisions. The world today has some pretty sucky things about it, but if anyone tries to argue that we haven't progressed from the past, they just need to watch stories like this to be reminded that we very much have.

People often gripe about how female-centric stories are "female empowerment stories about how awful men are and how exploited women are"--as if they can't harp on any other theme. But if you write a female-centric story from their perspective, unless you have rose-colored glasses, that's often what many women see. We hear ya, guys, it's uncomfortable to sit with, but... are women supposed to invalidate their experience to make you feel more comfy?

I appreciate that this story doesn't romanticize these women's pain/hardship or water it down. That scene where Lan Xiang finds Xing Tang on the road almost made me feel sick.

And it doesn't say the men's lives were easy, either, but their world is just different, and simply cannot be compared (e.g. feeling death loom over you if you make a wrong move or the fear of causing your family to die is one thing (and no one's saying that's easy), but experiencing that AND losing your dignity/humanity as well... is another).

When I think of Xing Tang, I think of the irony of people who call men women's "protectors":

" 'Who will protect us if men don't exist?'...

Protect us from what?"

Cause unless we're talking about a natural disaster or a wild animal (maybe) or an alien invasion, I don't know how to answer the second question... 😭

The Double feels more soapy than this drama. Agree with others who say this is more character-driven (well-written characters with really interesting arcs) than visual/aesthetics driven, and it has a fairly tight, well-placed plot that I think has less shock value and is more even as a story. It is similar in that is is female-centric, as many costume Cdramas are now, but it doesn't have the revenge focus or the fantastical/over-the-top quality to it that The Double has. It also leans more into the commoner perspective and strips some of the rosiness away from the "historical" setting by showing just how dangerous and hard it was to exist in this era, be you poor or rich.

I so prefer a page where people discuss things like the plot and what's going on, why characters do what they did or not, the big picture, the historical context/anachronisms and why they were chosen as well as dialogue about the culture and customs, themes and what might happen next, etc. Not stuff about people wanting to eat out of an actor's hand because he's so hot or how they would be fine to be treated like garbage if someone that gorgeous wanted them, etc. (these are tamer examples). The villain from POJ drew out some truly frightening comments from people because apparently everyone thought he was so incredibly attractive but his character was objectively cruel and problematic. Even the writer seemed to want people to thirst over him and pity him even though he was doing abusive, horrible stuff. I was kind of horrified. 😅 It got to be too much for me. It was all about visuals and aesthetics, and not substance (and some of the content was pretty toxic/unhealthy), I realized, so I bailed. I personally think it bordered on beautiful smut.

People saying lots of horny stuff about actors and shots and scenarios.

PREACH. The Nirvana in Fire dramas are top tier. No Cdrama I've seen beats them.

If he dies when they're older I'm okay with that.

Interesting you think high Cdrama MDL ratings get more unnecessarily inflated than Kdramas? Some people DO seem to get really excited about certain types of spicy scenes/visuals that show up in Cdramas almost exclusively. But the dramas itself can be pretty bad as far as writing and pacing and editing and they'll still love it. 😅

I liked A Splendid March as well

There's so much less thirsting here than on the POJ page and I find it SO refreshing. 😅