Platinum Fox

While I love and agree with your interpretation of this movie, I would like to offer a different perspective.

Let's start with the king. The king is the "leader" of an area occupied by Yuan, China. He has no control over when, where, and why his soldiers go to war. As tributes, he must send maidens from his "country" to an emperor who has maidens from all over the area. In a sense, the king has been rendered impotent and has become emasculated (politically). He essentially has no power to run his own country. In addition, the king himself doesn't even get to choose his own queen, she is someone chosen by the emperor of Yuan. I am sure his concubines were as well. If he consummates this marriage, he essentially says to the emperor I submit to your will. Now, even in his sexual life, he has been emasculated and rendered impotent. As an act of rebellion, the king refuses to produce an heir to keep the purity of the "country". What makes it easy for him to do this, is in his own personal life he is gay. His guards, who were chosen when they were young, were groomed to be his harem, plus his body guards. Out of all of these guards, he loves Hong Lim the most and has made him his lover. In a sense, through his own personal choice, he has emasculated himself sexually by not having sex with women, even though it would benefit him greatly. By doing this he can remain true to himself and not bend to outside forces which he has to do in other ways. The heir is just a pawn in Yuan's and the king's game to control the area. The king is a frozen flower, a victim of his time. Why can't he just be the king with or without an heir? He can't because It goes against tradition.

Now, Hong Lim is the king's favored concubine, but he doesn't seem to be upset with this arrangement. At the beginning when he is out practicing his swordsmanship, he could have said, "I am tired and want to go to bed." Instead he continues to practice with the king. The king recognizes his loyalty and grooms him to be his companion and lover. Out of all his men, Hong Lim is the most capable to do what needs to be done. He is able to adapt to the situation. The first four sex scenes show this and why the king listens and watches the two. The next sex scenes in the library and her bedroom are him going above and beyond the call of duty. He knows what will happen if he doesn't help her produce an heir. In the end, the two do fall in love and their love is found out (the last sex scene in the library). The king castrates Hong Lim because he has essentially emasculated him in the only area he could control. However, we know that we control who we love, but not who will love us back. It is also to show control, if I can't have him, no one else can. So in a sense Hong Lim did betray the king. Once the queen became pregnant, he should have stopped and did until he went to meet her in the library. It was then that he knew he was in love her (for me). He is also a frozen flower and victim of circumstances and his choices. At the end of the drama, the last scene is of the king and him riding horses on the prairie.

Finally, we get to the queen. The queen was from Yuan, China, the country that occupied Korea during the Goryeo years. Her sole purpose is to produce an heir for Yuan. It doesn't matter if she loves the king or not. Since he refuses to give her a child, she has some options. First, find her own lover (which she does), or do as the king suggests and return to her home country. What will happen to her, we don't know, but it won't be pretty. Her best option is to find a lover. Now the king presents this option. During their three attempts when the king is listening and watching, she understands that Hong Lim is a loyal person, and she uses that against him to get what she wants. When their three attempts produce nothing, she takes matters into her own hands and asks him to meet her in the library several times. Being the loyal person that he is and conditioned to serve (in whatever complicity) people, she uses him for her own purposes. In the end, she defeats the king by using the very people he created to protect him. She was smart. However, she is also a frozen flower, her circumstances led her to do what she needed to do to get the job done. She was patient and when the opportunity struck she took advantage of the situation. She was kinda a honey trap that didn't work on a gay king.

Everybody wanted the king dead. His life style went against the customs and traditions of the nation. However, his way of life would have preserved the purity of the country, and he was rebelling the only way he knew how. jmo

Actually, it is not my delusion. Have you ever thought of another person while your making love to another person. People do it all the time both men and women. How is Hong Lim any different? His job is to service both the king and queen. Whatever he needs to do to get the job done should be used. So if he has to use the image of the king to get the job done, so be it. However, this is only in the first two encounters while the king is present in the other room. The queen is a beautiful woman, yet she is unable to win the favor of the king and produce an heir. Why, because the king has been emasculated by his sexual preference.

In the third encounter, the king believing that Hong Lim is just servicing the queen allows the two more privacy. He is not a heartless guy. The third and final time, the king sits in a room a hallway width away, yet he still hears them making love and is curious and watches them. He begins to realize that Hong Lim is good at adapting. Not only can he service him, but also the queen. This is why afterwards when the encounters don't produce an heir, the king wants to change the arrangement. He is afraid that Hong Lim will start loving the queen and not love him any more.

The entire movie asks the questions: what is masculinity, what does it mean to be a man?

The movie is very aptly named. Each of our three main characters are frozen flowers.

Thanks for the discussion.

I disagree with you. Who says Hong Lim isn't happy with the arrangement. The king has produced a harem of men for his own pleasure, in particular Hong Lim. The fact that the king does not allow for his men to fall in love with women shows that he expects every single one of them to be his lover on demand. There are scenes with Hong Lim and the king where Hong Lim is clearly the one in control of the love making and is taking pleasure in it.

Now, when he first encounters the queen, he can't produce because he sees the queen crying and her body is not responding the way the king's does to his touch. He realizes at this time that she is a human being with thoughts and feelings as well. The king is outside the room listening to what is going on. To him, Hong Lim is just "changing the oil in the car". It should not be pleasurable like with him. Hong Lim looks at the king and realizes he can't do it because the king also has feelings. When the king asks him if he has served the queen,and Hong says no, you can see a slight smile on the king's face. He is happy that Hong Lim is not able to produce. It means that Hong Lim loves him and him alone. The king can trust Hong Lim to get the job done. Also, the queen in this round wears all of her clothing.

The second time Hong Lim is with the queen the king is also in the other room painting leaves to plants. Hong Lim is unable to produce until he looks at the king, and then he passionately kisses the queen as he realizes he must act like he is with the king. In my mind, Hong Lim imagines the queen being the king, so he can get the desired outcome. He has done what the king wants without taking any pleasure in it. Notice that the queen has all of her clothes off in order to facilitate arousal, but it is only when Hong Lim looks at the king is able to produce the desired results.

Now the third time is different. You can figure that one out on your own.

The actress who plays 14 year old Sang Zhi was actually 11 at the time. Sang Zhi is said to have been sickly as a child and didn't develop in height like a regular child. However, it is also to show how 14 and 19 year olds are different in height and maturity level. DJX looks like he could be her dad. This is very intentional by writers.

What a powerful drama, just really weak ending.

What a heavy drama! I loved the symbolism at the end with the female lead in the hot air balloon over the city. Now that is an ending! Thanks Tubi for giving us this drama.

Wow, I hope more people view this wonderful drama, now that it is on Tubi TV.

I am so glad Tubi TV has brought these wonderful Hong Kong dramas to viewers. Even though some of the cases dragged in places the romance of the first couple was wonderful. I love Tavia. Hope more people will watch this wonderful drama.

I understand where you are coming from. However, people plead all the time for their relatives if they get in trouble. In these dramas, sons often take the blame or punishment for their fathers and vice versa. The great uncle is lucky he got exiled to the frontier as his crime was punishable by death. The whole Cheng family could have been wiped out because they are related to the uncle. By NN turning him in, she actually saved the family.

As for mom, remember she is a general. She gathers intelligence and forms a plan. When she sees that her daughter is not this dutiful, obedient girl, she has to change strategies to get to know her daughter. Niao Niao is about law, order, and justice. Mom and dad do everything in their power to get justice for NN, this includes turning in the uncle. Also, mom does talk with NN about things. Mom doesn't punish NN on a whim like LBY does with his sidekicks. For the time, the mother character is as she should be, but viewers and even the writers kinda vilify her. Plus, I would not consider NN an adult, even though she is of age to get married. She is too immature.

This drama has several running themes about parenting, love, justice, favoritism, nepotism, etc.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

Thank you for this insight. As someone who does not watch dramas for entertainment purposes, but as cultural enlightenment, I have to ask what elements make a Chinese story a good story? In my yard are two peony plants and my neighbor has a whole row of them. It has been interesting to watch the history of the peony. Also, the metaphor of the peony and Mu Dan (all women really) is wonderful. So I can understand why the story would be a cultural treasure for the topics covered (the treatment of women and peonies).

However, even though I have watched numerous Chinese dramas, I am still baffled by what Chinese people consider a good story. There is more to a drama then just the plot itself, especially when the drama is being carried over two seasons. The two seasons must contain a sense of continuity. Love Like the Galaxy (even though the second season felt very different), all the elements from the first season carried over really well. Here I feel like I am watching an entirely different drama (not a continuation) with only the names of the characters being the same. Every element from the first season has disappeared. The male and female leads have been turned into juveniles. The "misunderstandings"arise out of silly scenarios, for example, the broken hairpin. This was a gift from Mu Dan to JCY as a thank you for saving the flowers. She stated that she gave a lot of thought to this gift, yet she entrusted it to a "servant" to deliver it? This is really juvenile writing. In the process, the hairpin gets broken creating an entirely different meaning in its giving. Again, with the relationship that the two of them have, this conversation should have taken place immediately, not forgotten about in the next episode.

Another example of juvenile writing is the death of the mother. No where in the first season is it hinted at that the mother has been poisoned. It is stated that she has been sick for long time and that only the tribute medicine will save her. Now, this guy who runs the orphanage and was JCY's servant kills the mother just because she is rich and his family died. Seriously! Just these two examples alone make the story juvenile after we had such a rich powerful story in Flourished Peony. jmo

Yes, the source is right in the drama itself, the book The End of Eternity (TEoE)by Isaac Asimov. The drama's structure follows that of TEoE. TEoE explains DJX"s job; the age gap; why the story jumps from past, to present, to future; mom and dad's way of disciplining their daughter, DJX's letter to her; etc. This novel is not in the source material. It is distinct to the drama itself. TEoE is a social commentary on the use of nuclear energy. It doesn't come right and say nuclear energy is right or wrong but cautions us to be careful with it. This drama is a very well done social commentary as it does not come right and say, the age of consent law is bad, but it gives reasons as to why 14 and 19 year olds should not be together (height and maturity level). Also, it gives reasons why 17 and 22 year olds should not be together (maturity level). When she turns 19 everything is okay as now she is considered an adult with the age of majority being 18.

There is so much more going on in this drama than just a fluffy, simple love story. Read The End of Eternity and you will understand.

I understand. Most viewers see it that way. I felt that way at first as well, but it was her acting like a child when she is 14 and 17 that made me question what they were trying to do in this drama. The scene you are referring to is actually a part of that. He begins to hide his interactions with her from her brother, why? It is a modern retelling of Little Red Riding Hood. Love O2O is a very simple, fluffy love story. This drama goes way beyond that. jmo

I understand where you are coming from, but his character here is not the same character who was presented in Flourish Peony. In Flourished Peony he played the male version of Mu Dan. He wanted to be successful through his own merits. What does that mean? When he tried to make it on his own, his efforts were tossed aside like nothing (much like Mu Dan's). It is only when she falls under the Flower Envoy's protection is she able to flourish. Now, LC is under the protection of Prince Ning, he could spend his time making a name for himself and turning his "villain" persona around, but instead he spends his time trying to take down JCY who is also someone on Prince Ning's side. Prince Ning can't control his own faction as he has three leaders fighting among themselves. One we know is doing it to help the king, two are doing it for girls which makes each of them cliche 2nd male leads.

For me, the second season has turned into one big cliche, which is a disappoint after a wonderful season 1. I will watch the rest to see if LC's character completes his objective, but I am not hopeful.

You are not the only one to notice this about Sang Zhi. It is very intentional on the writer and director's part. I also found him going to school and pretending to be her brother strange as well. However, I saw it done in another drama and figured it was a cultural thing. Also, she is a minor when it comes to the age of majority (18), but not when it comes to the age of consent law which is 14. This drama is a social commentary on the age of consent law in China. It is not the fluffy, simple love story like Love O2O. jmo

You and many others have felt this way, but her "infantile" behavior is very intentional. Also, DJX is an adult at 19. To cast him as himself at that age is correct as most people are fully grown at that age.

For me if they hadn't turned him into a cliche 2nd male lead, especially after promising something different in Flourished Peony, his acting skills would have definitely stood out. Also, for me, even the other actors seem like they are just going through the motions as well. None of them really seem like they enjoy their characters much. Not like in Flourished Peony. I really do feel like I am watching an entirely different drama instead of a continuation of the previous season. jmo

Since this is the first and only thing that I have seen him in, I can't compare his acting to anything else. After watching Flourished Peony, I wanted to see him in other things, but now I don't really care if I watch him or not as the writers and director have turned him into a big cliche which for me kills the acting. jmo

Yes, and that bothers me as well. Something that important is completely forgotten within the next episodes. Sad.

Yes, I felt the same way. For him saving the flowers that gift of the hairpin should have been delivered in person instead of through a "servant". It was just a silly way to "break up" their relationship.

I have to agree. I feel like I am watching an entirely different drama. The wonderful themes they set up in Flourished Peony just disappeared. For me, it has turned into one great big cliche. I am waiting for Liu Chang's redemption arc, but sadly he has been turned into another 2nd male lead villain for the sake of having a villain.