Platinum Fox

The best use of the honey trap theme I have ever seen. It deserves all the awards it received.

Different points of view are the reason this forum exists. I have enjoyed learning about this drama from a gay perspective. However, that is not the lens I am using. I am looking at it through the lens of psychological warfare and the theme of subjugation which are the two main themes of this movie.

You're right. The king can't kill Hong Lim because in the game of psychological warfare, for the king, he is evidence that the queen has had an affair. For the queen, the king and Hong Lim are the people who need to be gotten rid of so her secret won't come out. Remember everyone who knows the secret has been executed. Do you remember the heads hanging and the locket that Hong Lim gave the queen. It was hanging around the head of her dead maid. Why was that locket there? What purpose did it serve? By this time the queen has gotten everything that she wanted and needed. Now it was time to get rid of the evidence, but the honey trap is not complete because the two main characters are still alive and can testify. Knowing Hong Lim's character by now, she understands that he will go against king and possibly kill him. The king, on the other hand, still must ingratiate himself to Hong Lim in order to complete his honey trap. That's why he asks Hong Lim if he would come back to his side. However, Hong Lim is long gone and thinks he's in love with the queen. That is why the king also calls him a fool during that fight scene. By this time the king's honey trap has failed as Hong Lim has proudly declared that he now loves the queen and not the king. The king knows the game is over, and he is defeated. This is why he allows Hong Lim to kill him as he would rather die by someone he loves than all the ministers.

There is a particularly telling scene near the end where the queen tells Seung, "I am the princess of Yuan," meaning she holds all the power. This is when she bargains with him to kill the king. Seung takes it upon himself to kill Hong Lim which is what the queen knew he would do. Now her evidence is gone. She can be on her merry way back to Yuan. She has completed her mission. She can abort Hong Lim's baby at any time as it is not that far along.

For me, this is one of the most well done honey trap themed Asian dramas out there.

You talk about wanting to experience this movie at it's different layers. Try using the gay perspective with the themes of subjugation and psychological warfare. It is what I wanted to learn about, but if you don't feel like it. I am cool with that. Take care and hope your family is well.

Thank you for the discussion.

Yes, I do get it from the movie. At the beginning of the movie when the king is a teenager he gathers a group of boys to train them to be his body guards and loyal assistants. These are the males that he can trust to always be on his side. When the boys grow up, one of them tries to run off with the queen's maid, the punishment is death. Fortunately Hong Lim pacifies the king to let the boy back into the group and allow the maid to live. This tells you that the boys are for the king only. He controls every aspect of their life including who they can have sex with and love. This is no different than a straight king and his harem. If a consort, lady, or concubine were to have an affair, she and her lover would be put to death. Every person in the palace, girl or guy, is there to serve the king in whatever capacity that means. This king has made sure that all of his boys are loyal to him and are for him only.

Near the end, the boy who offers himself understands that in order to be promoted he must win the favor of the king. This is no different than a concubine who wants to be promoted to a consort. Yes, this shows that the king is in love with Hong Lim, but the king also knows that the boy is just sucking up to him.

I do need to rewatch the ending. For me, it gets tough to watch after the king castrates Hong Lim as you know it is not going to end well.

You're right. You have invested a great deal of time in this movie. When I watch it again, I will need to watch it through a different lens. However, no matter what lens a viewer watches this, the main theme is subjugation whether on the political or personal level. It is what drives the motivations, behaviors, and actions of the three main characters.

This is why I say that the queen and Hong Lim are honey traps. The queen is the first trap. Yuan and Korea during Goryeo years were enemies. Yuan sent a beautiful queen to win the heart of the king. The king was supposed to be so overwhelmed by her beauty that all he would want to do is be with her and produce a heir. Her job is to subdue him and keep him happy and passive. When this doesn't work for 10-15 years, the Yuan emperor becomes greatly concerned and tries to push the matter again. By this time even the ministers in his council want him to produce an heir because this is custom and tradition and trade with Yuan will line their pockets.

Now that the pressure to produce an heir is on again, the king tells the queen we have options. You can admit defeat and go back to Yuan or stay and become a part of my honey trap. This is why in the end everybody who knows about the honey trap has to die from the queen's maid to the king himself. Even Hong Lim has to die because he is the evidence. I get all of this from the statement the king made to Hong Lim when Hong Lim asked why him. The king says, "the child she will bear needs to be as fair as you." The child needs to look like Hong Lim, so that the king can say the queen had an affair, and she can be sent home in defeat and disgrace. This isn't mean. This is country preservation. However, the king's honey trap backfire's on him. When the king catches them in the library, he can't kill HL because he is still evidence of the affair. That's why he can only castrate him and not kill him. He can't kill the queen because it would bring the Yuan army to massacre innocent people.

This movie makes use of one of the 36 war stratagems found in ancient China, psychological warfare through the use of the honey trap. This is the first time though I have seen it done in reverse. I found it quite fascinating. I loved this movie. It has so much you can discuss about it.

Thank you for the discussion and take care.

Thank you, I just watched the movie two days ago and am still trying to process it. I have read many of the comments here and all of them have helped me understand what I feel most people missed. This is a political/war film. Not in the sense of actually going to war and fighting battles, but a psychological/social war that makes use of one the 36 stratagems of war, the honey trap on both the king and the queen's side. All I can say is poor Hong Lim caught in the middle and clueless.

Thanks for the discussion.

Thank you for the discussion. I understand. Actually, it was your post to another commenter that led me to the conclusions that I have. I haven't expressed them well and I apologize for that. I write to learn.

Also, I understand about discussing a drama or movie. It took me two years to understand everything going on in a drama called Hidden Love and it drives me crazy when people don't see what I see. So I understand your frustration and reluctance to share. Take care as well.

You have just proved my point. She has the opportunity to go away with him, but does she, no. This movie is a political movie. The love and romance just enhance this agenda. Thanks for the discussion. Happy drama/movie watching. Take care.

A honey trap is a person who is used because of his/her looks when the two sides are enemies. The other side is suppose to be so enamored by them that they can get away with any thing. Hong Lim is the king's honey trap for the queen and the queen is the honey trap for Yuan.

Here is something that I wrote to another commenter.
Let's start with the king. The king is the "leader" of an area occupied by Yuan, China. He has no control over when, where, and why his soldiers go to war. As tributes, he must send maidens from his "country" to an emperor who has maidens from all over the area. In a sense, the king has been rendered impotent and has become emasculated (politically). He essentially has no power to run his own country. In addition, the king himself doesn't even get to choose his own queen, she is someone chosen by the emperor of Yuan. I am sure his concubines were as well. If he consummates this marriage, he essentially says to the emperor I submit to your will. Now, even in his sexual life, he has been emasculated and rendered impotent. As an act of rebellion, the king refuses to produce an heir to keep the purity of the "country". What makes it easy for him to do this, is in his own personal life he is gay. His guards, who were chosen when they were young, were groomed to be his harem, plus his body guards. Out of all of these guards, he loves Hong Lim the most and has made him his lover. In a sense, through his own personal choice, he has emasculated himself sexually by not having sex with women, even though it would benefit him greatly. By doing this he can remain true to himself and not bend to outside forces which he has to do in other ways. The heir is just a pawn in Yuan's and the king's game to control the area. The king is a frozen flower, a victim of his time. Why can't he just be the king with or without an heir? He can't because It goes against tradition.

Now, Hong Lim is the king's favored concubine, but he doesn't seem to be upset with this arrangement. At the beginning when he is out practicing his swordsmanship, he could have said, "I am tired and want to go to bed." Instead he continues to practice with the king. The king recognizes his loyalty and grooms him to be his companion and lover. Out of all his men, Hong Lim is the most capable to do what needs to be done. He is able to adapt to the situation. The first four sex scenes show this and why the king listens and watches the two. The next sex scenes in the library and her bedroom are him going above and beyond the call of duty. He knows what will happen if he doesn't help her produce an heir. In the end, the two do fall in love and their love is found out (the last sex scene in the library). The king castrates Hong Lim because he has essentially emasculated him in the only area he could control. However, we know that we control who we love, but not who will love us back. It is also to show control, if I can't have him, no one else can. So in a sense Hong Lim did betray the king. Once the queen became pregnant, he should have stopped and did until he went to meet her in the library. It was then that he knew he was in love her (for me). He is also a frozen flower and victim of circumstances and his choices. At the end of the drama, the last scene is of the king and him riding horses on the prairie.

Finally, we get to the queen. The queen was from Yuan, China, the country that occupied Korea during the Goryeo years. Her sole purpose is to produce an heir for Yuan. It doesn't matter if she loves the king or not. Since he refuses to give her a child, she has some options. First, find her own lover (which she does), or do as the king suggests and return to her home country. What will happen to her, we don't know, but it won't be pretty. Her best option is to find a lover. Now the king presents this option. During their three attempts when the king is listening and watching, she understands that Hong Lim is a loyal person, and she uses that against him to get what she wants. When their three attempts produce nothing, she takes matters into her own hands and asks him to meet her in the library several times. Being the loyal person that he is and conditioned to serve (in whatever complicity) people, she uses him for her own purposes. In the end, she defeats the king by using the very people he created to protect him. She was smart. However, she is also a frozen flower, her circumstances led her to do what she needed to do to get the job done. She was patient and when the opportunity struck she took advantage of the situation. She was kinda a honey trap that didn't work on a gay king.

Everybody wanted the king dead. His life style went against the customs and traditions of the nation. However, his way of life would have preserved the purity of the country, and he was rebelling the only way he knew how. jmo

Thanks for your response and insight. I understand what you are saying. However, you have missed a key detail, Baek Seom's (BS) father's teaching. BS' dad has literally beat into him that you must take revenge on the people who have hurt you. The bullies bullied him for years and he is just to accept an apology and a slap. How is that even equal to all the abuse that he received from them. Also, at times Si Eun uses a weapon to fight, why can't BS?

The whole karaoke scene is the turning point to get BS to the side that he is suppose to be on, the wealthy kids' side. He is the only one who is willing to take on Suho. The problem is they don't play fair. You need to remember that the rich kids do not like Suho either and they all gang up on him in the end. Baek Seom is the spark that ignites the payback for what Suho did to all of them. If Suho would have allowed BS' to get revenge, we would not have the end result that we do.

Also, these boys are products of their environment. Parents, teachers, police officers, and even the boys themselves believe that bulling is just a part of life and the way to solve it is to transfer schools, not hold people accountable for their actions.

In the end, BS' is extremely remorseful and would have taken responsibility for his actions, but dad ships him off to the Philippines.

Thank you for the discussion.

Hong Lim is a honey trap.

Don't know if this was intentional, but felt like this movie was filmed in a chaotic manner. Not that it lessened the experience. I am still recovering from it. All I can say is wow.

All I can say is wow. There is far more going on in the movie than what viewers think. For me, commenters have not taken into account the time period this story is set and the effects it would have on the people of the time, especially a king (gay or straight). When viewed through this lens, it tells a very different story than the synopsis gives. For me, Hong Lim and the queen are used as honey traps. Unfortunately, the queen is a better honey trap than Hong Lim.

Since I am not sure where you are in the drama, I will say this. Sang Zhi is offered two love interests who are her age. However, she is not interested in either of them. The age difference between DJX and Sang Zhi is very intentional. Even though it is just five years, it makes the viewers uncomfortable when she is 14 and 17. This is very intentional as this drama is a social commentary on the age of consent law in China which is 14. Every scene, especially in the early episodes, is very important as it is a modern retelling of Little Red Riding Hood.

Happy drama watching.

Many viewers were bothered by the age gap when she was young. This is intentional by the writer. This drama, which can be viewed as a simple, fluffy love story goes way beyond that. It is a modern retelling of Little Red Riding Hood and a social commentary on many subjects. The main one is the age of consent law which is 14 in China.

The drama asks the questions what is the right age for girls to begin their sexual journey and with whom? The period scene is very important as it shows that Sang Zhi is biologically a woman. However, she still speaks and acts like a child. Also, the period scene starts to show how DJX and the brother differ in their treatment of Sang Zhi. Every scene in this drama was carefully chosen for a reason, especially during her earlier years.

How is my point of view gross? This is a bl movie. I am just going by what the movie is portraying. What is the definition of man in this movie? He is someone who can protect another person or country. He must love women and have sex with women. He must produce an heir. I totally disagree with this definition. Is this your definition of a man?

While I love and agree with your interpretation of this movie, I would like to offer a different perspective.

Let's start with the king. The king is the "leader" of an area occupied by Yuan, China. He has no control over when, where, and why his soldiers go to war. As tributes, he must send maidens from his "country" to an emperor who has maidens from all over the area. In a sense, the king has been rendered impotent and has become emasculated (politically). He essentially has no power to run his own country. In addition, the king himself doesn't even get to choose his own queen, she is someone chosen by the emperor of Yuan. I am sure his concubines were as well. If he consummates this marriage, he essentially says to the emperor I submit to your will. Now, even in his sexual life, he has been emasculated and rendered impotent. As an act of rebellion, the king refuses to produce an heir to keep the purity of the "country". What makes it easy for him to do this, is in his own personal life he is gay. His guards, who were chosen when they were young, were groomed to be his harem, plus his body guards. Out of all of these guards, he loves Hong Lim the most and has made him his lover. In a sense, through his own personal choice, he has emasculated himself sexually by not having sex with women, even though it would benefit him greatly. By doing this he can remain true to himself and not bend to outside forces which he has to do in other ways. The heir is just a pawn in Yuan's and the king's game to control the area. The king is a frozen flower, a victim of his time. Why can't he just be the king with or without an heir? He can't because It goes against tradition.

Now, Hong Lim is the king's favored concubine, but he doesn't seem to be upset with this arrangement. At the beginning when he is out practicing his swordsmanship, he could have said, "I am tired and want to go to bed." Instead he continues to practice with the king. The king recognizes his loyalty and grooms him to be his companion and lover. Out of all his men, Hong Lim is the most capable to do what needs to be done. He is able to adapt to the situation. The first four sex scenes show this and why the king listens and watches the two. The next sex scenes in the library and her bedroom are him going above and beyond the call of duty. He knows what will happen if he doesn't help her produce an heir. In the end, the two do fall in love and their love is found out (the last sex scene in the library). The king castrates Hong Lim because he has essentially emasculated him in the only area he could control. However, we know that we control who we love, but not who will love us back. It is also to show control, if I can't have him, no one else can. So in a sense Hong Lim did betray the king. Once the queen became pregnant, he should have stopped and did until he went to meet her in the library. It was then that he knew he was in love her (for me). He is also a frozen flower and victim of circumstances and his choices. At the end of the drama, the last scene is of the king and him riding horses on the prairie.

Finally, we get to the queen. The queen was from Yuan, China, the country that occupied Korea during the Goryeo years. Her sole purpose is to produce an heir for Yuan. It doesn't matter if she loves the king or not. Since he refuses to give her a child, she has some options. First, find her own lover (which she does), or do as the king suggests and return to her home country. What will happen to her, we don't know, but it won't be pretty. Her best option is to find a lover. Now the king presents this option. During their three attempts when the king is listening and watching, she understands that Hong Lim is a loyal person, and she uses that against him to get what she wants. When their three attempts produce nothing, she takes matters into her own hands and asks him to meet her in the library several times. Being the loyal person that he is and conditioned to serve (in whatever complicity) people, she uses him for her own purposes. In the end, she defeats the king by using the very people he created to protect him. She was smart. However, she is also a frozen flower, her circumstances led her to do what she needed to do to get the job done. She was patient and when the opportunity struck she took advantage of the situation. She was kinda a honey trap that didn't work on a gay king.

Everybody wanted the king dead. His life style went against the customs and traditions of the nation. However, his way of life would have preserved the purity of the country, and he was rebelling the only way he knew how. jmo

Actually, it is not my delusion. Have you ever thought of another person while your making love to another person. People do it all the time both men and women. How is Hong Lim any different? His job is to service both the king and queen. Whatever he needs to do to get the job done should be used. So if he has to use the image of the king to get the job done, so be it. However, this is only in the first two encounters while the king is present in the other room. The queen is a beautiful woman, yet she is unable to win the favor of the king and produce an heir. Why, because the king has been emasculated by his sexual preference.

In the third encounter, the king believing that Hong Lim is just servicing the queen allows the two more privacy. He is not a heartless guy. The third and final time, the king sits in a room a hallway width away, yet he still hears them making love and is curious and watches them. He begins to realize that Hong Lim is good at adapting. Not only can he service him, but also the queen. This is why afterwards when the encounters don't produce an heir, the king wants to change the arrangement. He is afraid that Hong Lim will start loving the queen and not love him any more.

The entire movie asks the questions: what is masculinity, what does it mean to be a man?

The movie is very aptly named. Each of our three main characters are frozen flowers.

Thanks for the discussion.

I disagree with you. Who says Hong Lim isn't happy with the arrangement. The king has produced a harem of men for his own pleasure, in particular Hong Lim. The fact that the king does not allow for his men to fall in love with women shows that he expects every single one of them to be his lover on demand. There are scenes with Hong Lim and the king where Hong Lim is clearly the one in control of the love making and is taking pleasure in it.

Now, when he first encounters the queen, he can't produce because he sees the queen crying and her body is not responding the way the king's does to his touch. He realizes at this time that she is a human being with thoughts and feelings as well. The king is outside the room listening to what is going on. To him, Hong Lim is just "changing the oil in the car". It should not be pleasurable like with him. Hong Lim looks at the king and realizes he can't do it because the king also has feelings. When the king asks him if he has served the queen,and Hong says no, you can see a slight smile on the king's face. He is happy that Hong Lim is not able to produce. It means that Hong Lim loves him and him alone. The king can trust Hong Lim to get the job done. Also, the queen in this round wears all of her clothing.

The second time Hong Lim is with the queen the king is also in the other room painting leaves to plants. Hong Lim is unable to produce until he looks at the king, and then he passionately kisses the queen as he realizes he must act like he is with the king. In my mind, Hong Lim imagines the queen being the king, so he can get the desired outcome. He has done what the king wants without taking any pleasure in it. Notice that the queen has all of her clothes off in order to facilitate arousal, but it is only when Hong Lim looks at the king is able to produce the desired results.

Now the third time is different. You can figure that one out on your own.

The actress who plays 14 year old Sang Zhi was actually 11 at the time. Sang Zhi is said to have been sickly as a child and didn't develop in height like a regular child. However, it is also to show how 14 and 19 year olds are different in height and maturity level. DJX looks like he could be her dad. This is very intentional by writers.

What a powerful drama, just really weak ending.