PrettyCarEye

I don't disagree with you that South Korean society is permeated with misogynistic tendencies. I acknowledged that in my post above when I referred to the toxicity of the k-pop industry & the culture in general ... or did you just deliberately skimmed over that part?

Look, whether you like it or not, there is a thing called due process which every citizen of a democratic country has a right to. EVERY citizen ... even men in deeply patriarchal societies. People who are accused of a crime have a right to defend themselves, confront their accusers and have their cases judged in a court of law, by people who are trained to do so (not by the court of public opinion).

As far as I know Seungri & JJY are still under investigation. Their cases are not concluded, and it is likely that at least one of them - JJY most likely - will go to prison. Last time I checked, the police are preparing to hand over Seungri's case to the prosecutor, who has decided there is enough evidence to try him for gambling. There was no direct evidence linking him to the Burning Sun sex scandal. Does that mean he is absolved of not being involved somehow? No. It simply means there is no EVIDENCE to bring charges against him that will hold up in court. You can not try and convict someone based on speculation, supposition, suspicion and/or conjecture. You need EVIDENCE, hard evidence. That's what due process is all about. And you know what ... one day if you're ever unfortunate enough to get in any kind of trouble, regardless of your guilt or innocence, you'll be glad it's there to protect you.

PSH was not convicted in a court of law so I can not justify calling him a rapist based on public opinion. I was not there in that room with them and neither were you. The system that is in place to judge him based upon the evidence provided said he was & is innocent. I chose to go with that until proven otherwise. I am aware that corruption is rife in the Korean police force. Maybe the cops were paid off to make evidence against these powerful men go away. I am willing to entertain that idea. But until something - EVIDENCE - surfaces and sticks, these men are innocent until proven guilty, also in my eyes - not the other way around.

The difference between you and me is that you're approaching your observation and analysis of these cases from a purely emotional place. And that's fine, that's your prerogative. However, that's not how I do things. Just because SK is a patriarchal society in which misogyny runs deep doesn't mean every man that is accused of a crime is automatically guilty. That's why I don't pass judgement until I get the facts of the case from the authorities mouths.

"Suicide is never a person's choice, just like prostitution, alcoholism, etc. It's a psychological self-defense mechanism tied to a subconscious interpretation of a former traumatic event."

Please quote your sources. Everyone deals with psychological pain and trauma. Does everyone then commits suicide? Become a prostitute or a drunk? I'm sorry, but I don't believe in absolving people of their personal responsibility. As sad as I am for her, Goo Hara took her own life ... somebody very likely did NOT kill her & she likely did not die of natural causes. Furthermore, whatever caused her to commit suicide does not denote the fact that she died by her own hand. Period, full stop. That is the reality of the situation. Deal with it.

As for your little bet, I'll pass. But not because 'deep down I know you're right'. On the contrary, I've already debunked all your personal feelings that you try to pass off as facts. Your opinions are not FACTS. And twisting the circumstances of these cases to suit your own narrative doesn't in any way make you right. It just shows a lack of ability to evaluate a situation objectively, outside of your own emotionality.

South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Surpassing Japan, China and Lithuania (countries that top the suicide rates in previous years) ... given the number of people who die by suicide per 100 000 citizen. Though SK also tops the charts for suicide among women, men and boys between the ages of 12 - 40 have the highest probability of dying by suicide & commit suicide at a rate that's 2 - 3x that of women. So when you sit here and pop off about how unlikely it is that Choi Jung Bum will commit suicide, I suggest you reflect on these sobering statistics - look them up too! - and stop talking nonsense.

Moreover, you've probably heard of Choi Jin - Sil. She died by suicide back in the mid 2000s and 10 yrs later her ex-husband also committed suicide, leaving their poor children motherless and fatherless. That is just one case that we know about because these people lived in the public eye. In a country like South Korea where more than 50+ people commit suicide A DAY ... there is likely to be far more cases of this nature that never make the news or that get lost in translation. Now, if you want to take a bet on THAT, come see me.

"The court has acknowledged that the defendant is guilty of intimidation, assault, coercion, and property damage, but has given him a suspended sentence. "

Under South Korean law this constitutes 'simple assault' - which means no grievous bodily harm, but as the judge said 'intimidation, threats, coercion'. The translation I read specifically mentioned that this - simple assault - was what he was convicted on. If he did indeed punch and manhandle her (and even sustained injuries himself), I'm curious as to why they did not convict him with battery (which is the statute used where there's physical harm involved) or something more severe.

Stating facts does not constitute 'defending' the accused. As I understood it, Hessa was simply trying to explain why he was not convicted on the sex tape charge. Those were the reasons why: she consented, he didn't actually release the video though he threatened to. Facts. These same facts were also reported in the news ... are they also 'defending' the accused too?

At the end of the day, I understand your upset feelings. However, during the moments before her death he was not there urging her on to take her life, he didn't make her take pills or however she chose to end her life (as far as we know). Yes, the guy appears to be a scumbag, and most likely contributed to her anguish ... however, depression & suicidality are multi-faceted. Meaning she was likely suffering from a multitude of stressors related to her personal life AND career. The Korean entertainment industry (and culture in general) is, afterall, known for pushing several of its top stars over the edge, even if/when their personal lives are peachy. So once again Hessa's hypothesis on the insidious nature of SK's cancel culture may not be totally off point.

I understand that in situations like these there is a need to cast blame. In truth, though, sad as it is to accept ... this is the path chosen by Goo Hara herself. There is no one to blame. She did what she felt like she had to do in her moment of crisis. It is very sad and unfortunate. I sincerely wish someone could have helped her.

Oh god, no, no, no ... not PSH! Wæ, drama gods, wæ????

P.S. I listened to the Coldplay song at the end of the movie today, and I so agree you. She did not fix him. He fixed himself and moved on with his life after she kinda brutally dumped him during that ridiculous running scene. Song was/is beautiful but totally misplaced in this movie.

Actually, the court found him guilty of simple assault, which basically means a serious perceived threat of bodily harm, but not an actual act of assault. The whole case for the sex tape was thrown out of court because 1) she consented to it being filmed and 2) while he threatened to release it, he didn't. Therefore, the court had no probable cause to convict him of that charge.

She was clearly troubled, likely for a variety of reasons. To hold someone else responsible for her likely suicide is erroneous and emotionally charged, rather than based on the actual facts of the case. I'm not defending the former boyfriend, but going for him and blaming him for something he had no control over is not right. And could potentially lead to more tragedy should he also end up taking his life.

P.S. I'm not saying that you're doing any of these things. Just speaking in general to everyone calling for his head.

LOOL, calm down.

Yeah, you and me both. I can't stand it. I used to watch a lot of family dramas because I loved the family dynamic and the multiple love story arcs. Unfortunately, certain cultural aspects- ie, overbearing, meddling parents and adult children who were passive & did nothing to control their own lives - annoyed the bejesus out of me. In fact, I quit dramas for over a year after a period of the same repetitive tropes. It tried my nerves so much ...

"Hyun woo's past might too much too handle for mi Soo as he never clearly talked about it and open up himself to her, but always ends up with him tried to run away and sort of give up."

Interesting, I never got the impression that he would do this habitually. The first time, in 1997, was when his friends came to the bakery and he asked for his pay and left with them. At that point they were barely starting to like each other. Second time, in 2000, was when they agreed she'd call him at 18:00 and he got into a fight and damaged his phone. Then there was the time he had to leave for the army, but it's not like that was his choosing.

Furthermore, if you've ever been in a relationship, you know the best thing to do when you're angry is to walk away and cool down, as he did, because arguing in anger, you might say or do something regrettable.

It always frustrates me when these couples don't have open and honest communication (although I know this is a common issue in real life too). If she felt shut out by him, why not just say that? Why not confront him directly and hold him accountable for shutting her out & giving him a chance to correct his behaviour? Push comes to shove, give him the ultimatum - either stay and talk to me or I'm leaving. But don't just leave like that the one time the other person makes a mistake ... it's bound to make them feel even more misunderstood and abandoned. I guess it's a cultural thing. Non-verbal communication is very typically Asian, I suppose. But damn, does it cause a lot unnecessary problems (and frustration for this viewer! lol).

I tend to agree with you that by her actions, it seems as if she was only in when times were good, but as soon as any problems arise she gave up. I also agree that allowing him to run like that then basically humiliating him when he told her he loved her was a jerk move because nothing he did warranted that sort of extreme reaction. She was blowing the whole situation out of proportion.

She never should have left in the first place. I mean she could have at least stayed the night until he came back and then try to work it out, but it seems so cruel to just up and leave the one time he did something she didn't like. She eventually realized she majorly f'ed up when Eun-ja told her that all Hyun Woo wanted/craved was for someone to believe in him. She realized she was a bad girlfriend. She wasn't a refugee to him ... likely when he needed her most. Instead, just like everyone else, the minute he made a mistake she turned her back on him.

Hopefully, though, they got past all that and lived a happy life. I wish the movie had given us a better happy ending .... with them kissing or something. Or us seeing them living life, happy together.

Agreed!
I also can't understand why she broke up with him ... after one fight?? One fight and that's reason enough to end a good relationship with a guy that clearly adores you? Maybe I missed something along the way, but I don't understand what she was thinking there. I mean, was she mad at him for leaving to go fight Tæ-Song? For choosing to go back to his old life instead of choosing her? I'm confused.

And later when she left with Jung Woo, did that mean they started a relationship? I so agree with you that he was totally unnecessary to the plot!

Guess it's open to interpretation, but I would say yes. It's not a particularly satisfying happy ending, though.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The problem is that a lot of South Koreans themselves believe and see themselves as 'white' so they see no issue whitewashing their society and subsequently any depiction of North Korea's. I remember being at the beach in South Korea and many people were covered from head to toe in a Korean version of the burkini. When I asked my Korean companions why, they said it was to prevent themselves from getting dark or tanned. SMH

I also went to the JSA and the North Korean soldiers I saw there were all as you described - they looked very poor ... even in full uniform. The soldiers didn't smile at us (of course), but they didn't really have to for you to know they likely had bad teeth (I once read an interesting interview with an Austrian dentist who spent several years in the North offering free dental care to poor families in Pyongyang. He mentioned that even government officials in high positions suffer from poor dental health). They were small, very thin (their uniforms looked too big for them and were hanging of their thin bodies); you could literally count every bone in their faces even from a distance. I remember wondering if they had enough strength to fight a war should it break out.

Before going to the JSA and seeing them up close, watching documentaries and interviews with and about North Koreans gave insights into how they look and sound. I could hear the distinct difference in their accents and see how physically different they are from Southerners. That's why when I watch shows with or about North Koreans I get a tiny bit disappointed because I *know* the actors won't look or sound the part. lol When I heard Hyun Bin was going to play this role, I winced a little because even when he was playing a zombie slayer in Rampant, he looked toooo glossy & commercialized for the role so he's definitely NOT going to be convincing playing a NK soldier....

People who are not familiar with these details though will likely enjoy the show.

I agree with you. Every time I watch a South Korean playing a Northerner I have to actively remind myself to suspend belief because first of all, South Koreans do not have that rail thin, emaciated look that Northerners tend to have. The Southerners are often too tall (haha) and look too fat & healthy to convincingly play a Northerner. Northerners look like they barely eat one good meal a day. Moreover, Northerners, esp those in the military, tend to move and behave in a very robotic fashion that the Southerners just don't have. Hyun Bin is a commercialized Hallyu 'product'. He's too glossy, too well put together & too recognizable to be a convincing North Korean soldier, imo. I imagine this will be a drama in which the audience will have to take the events & the actors with a HUGE clump of salt. Still rooting for Hyunbinney, though, because I love him! And I like the actress too.

I think the South Korean remake of So I Married An Anti-Fan also got cancelled because Choi Tæ Joon said in an interview it was his last project before joining the army. Apparently the drama, or at least parts of it, was filmed but due to conflict between the producers it can't be released. A pity because it's really the only one on the list I'm interested in. Wouldn't say I'm a fan of CTJ per se, but I've liked him since All About My Mom.

He sure did! lol

My pleasure! Hope you enjoy the movies as much as I did! :)

I don't get it either, but guess some people are just sensitive to these things. Depression is a beast. Very sad that she saw this as her only option. May her soul rest in eternal peace.

I didn't see the method of suicide before it was removed. How did she do it? For me, the news of someone's passing, esp when its suicide, seems incomplete without the manner and method of death. So can you tell me how she died? Was it death by hanging?

You explained it well. Thank you! <3

Can't stand Ha Ji Won so I'll pass. Thanks, though.

So I came back to respond to the comment you left me earlier, and it's gone. Not sure why you deleted it, but wanted to clarify that I understood your position. My comment regarding the strong persuasion of romantic love was in response to LCF's assertions that most women back in the day married and stayed married out of necessity, not love. From my research into the matter (not just born of this conversation, but the evolution of marriage has always been a fascinating topic for me so I've done a lot of reading on the subject), this assertion may have been true for some women, particularly of the lower classes, but in a general societal sense, people still at least *hoped* to marry for love (or to have some affection or fondness for their spouse), even back then.

Even unhappy couples, while they stayed married (due to religious, social pressures & yes, economic necessity for some), often lived separately & led wholly separate lives. Humans are quite adept at adjusting to their circumstances so I was not in full agreement that these people - and in particular women - were so disenfranchised that, if they were stuck in horrible marriages, they had NO recourse to escape at all.

In a general sense, I agree with both your arguments. I think LCF has good insight into the psyche of the current generation (which is more focused on self-fulfillment & indulgence, and thus can not appreciate the type of marital endurance you describe ), but your fundamental argument that the overarching nature of human beings is consistent (and has not changed over time) resonates with my own beliefs, particularly in regards to the topic at hand. The expectation that romantic love should last a lifetime is also one that I share (& wish were true with all my heart), but sadly, it's a wish set wholly in fantasy.