Sib doesn't know that Gene thinks he is drugged... if you watch the whole scene at the end they show that he was…
If they wanted to imply that Sib allegedly was given a sort of powerful horny-making drug, they would have loosely mentioned some sort of aphrodisiac and illegal drug. Instead they specifically mentioned Viagra, a real medicine with real effects that everyone knows about (Gene included).
I dont think toxic shippers was a weird curveball though. The whole season has been hinting and leading up to…
To me it's not ridiculous because not all people feel the same. It's clearly shown that Gene and Sib are a couple that needs constant presence. Especially Sib that yearned for Gene for years from afar. I can totally relate with them: years ago my boyfriend and I had to stay apart for 1 month (not 4) and it wrecked both of us.
Sib doesn't know that Gene thinks he is drugged... if you watch the whole scene at the end they show that he was…
I basically agree with @aprilnwright. Let me first say that English is not my native language so I'm struggling a little bit with expressing myself as effectively as possible. Also, needless to say, to me consent and respect always come first and foremost in a relationship. And I'm particularly sensitive on the topic so I often felt discomfort when I saw how other BL series dealt with it.
Having said that, in that scene I think there are several factors to consider: 1) Gene is under the misconception that Sib was drugged with Viagra behind his back. So Gene knows that Sib is about to have physical reactions but is fully in his right mind. 2) Gene is insicure and inexperienced so he's probably doubting if Sib feels hot because of Gene or because of the Viagra (therefore, in the following episode, after having discovered that Aoey didn't spike the drink, Gene confronts Sib about this). 3) Sib doesn't know about the Viagra but he finds out that Gene just searched the net about first time sex so he infers that Gene is interested in having sex with him and he's just being shy and nervous. 4) Sib always asked for Gene consent and respected Gene's boundaries, hence he created a safe environment for Gene. 5) Gene and Sib have history and know each other since they were children (event though they parted ways for a few years).
All these 5 points combined make me read the whole chasing situation in a playful way rather than a pressuring way. When you know your partner and you both created a safe environment within your relationship, boundaries are a little different and blended. If I just met a man and he chases me for kisses and/or sex, I would feel worried and pressured and not in control of the possible outcome of the situation. But if my partner, whom I've known for years and in whom I have trust, does the same, I would feel safe to play along because I have the means to correctly understand his behavior and I also know that he would stop if I ask so or if he would catch my discomfort. When you know your partner and there's a safe environment within your relationship, trust works from both sides: each partner trusts the other one to clearly say or show if a situation is no more comfortable for them AND ALSO trusts the other one to stop if asked so or if they catch hints of possibile discomfort.
For all tese reason, to me Sib is just being naughty and playful in order to help Gene around what he thinks is his nervousness and shyness, but sobers up and asks twice for consent (and to me, it's no coincidence that he's in a submissive position when he asks) as soon as things escalated (on Gene initiative) and get serious.
I don't want to impose my opinion, but I find this discussion really interesting so I hope I have clearly conveyed my point of view without any desire to be argumentative.
Sib doesn't know that Gene thinks he is drugged... if you watch the whole scene at the end they show that he was…
I think there's a misconception here: "Gene was searching for it because he was under the impression his boyfriend had been drugged and would either need him or would attack him." Viagra just makes men have b0ners (and can sometimes cause heart attacks, therefore Gene suggests to go to the hospital). It can be not very comfortable, but Viagra is not a sexual drug that strips someone of his right mind. Gene is not afraid of being attacked (when they are on the couch, before Gene moves them to the bed, he's clearly worried about Sib but he's not worried about himself nor uncomfortable), instead he's trying and figuring out how to help Sib with what he thinks is his discomfort (that is Sib's b0ner caused by Viagra).
Sib doesn't know that Gene thinks he is drugged... if you watch the whole scene at the end they show that he was…
There's no initial lack of consent because it's actually Gene that initiates anything remotely sexual between them. And still, Sib verbally asks for his consent. To me Gene is clearly on board with having sex with Sib: he is just being shy and nervous (we know he's introverted, a virgin and was also searching on the net if the first time hurts) and probably he is also afraid about the consent on Sib's part because of the drug. It seems to me that Gene is just being afraid that Sib is hot because of the Viagra and not because of him. Would he have sex that night without Aoey's lie? I don't know, maybe or maybe not. And if Gene initially felt pressured into having sex because of the whole Viagra mess, it's Aoey fault, not Sib. Sure is that they're having a misunderstanding in the beginning (manly due to Gene not telling Sib about the Viagra), but they clear everything out - especially their consent - by speaking to each other before having sex.
Sib doesn't know that Gene thinks he is drugged... if you watch the whole scene at the end they show that he was…
"Gene had also been looking up the effects of Viagra." No, he wasn't. He did only one search on the net and it was about first time s*x. Moreover, it's clearly shown that Sib didn't know about all the Viagra mess until the day after. He probably just thought that Gene was being shy. He chased Gene around the room because he was being playful but he let Gene take control with initiating serious stuff and double-checked his consent by asking directly.
VIN-CHEN-ZO?...LOL NO.its vincenzo in english and binsenjo in korean
I really don't mean to be argumentative, but being Italian myself I just wanted to clarify the correct pronunciation of the name. Then it's perfectly fine by me if the character himself said that he wanted his name pronounced using English pronunciation. I get that it's really simpler both for non-Italian actors and viewers.
VIN-CHEN-ZO?...LOL NO.its vincenzo in english and binsenjo in korean
I guess that @Dabosil was speaking about the pronunciation (which is indeed correct with a "ch" sound), not about the spelling. And being the name Italian, you should not consider the English pronunciation/spelling.
Just for fun, but the small things that stuck out to me that weren't supposed to stick out to me in the last episode:-…
I just saw the scene you speak about and only Cassano in correctly pronounced. Vincenzo instead is mispronounced.
In the Italian language the correct pronunciation of Vincenzo Cassano is: - Vincenzo: VIN as in English word "VINtage" + CE as in English word "CHEck" + N (simple n) + ZO with a very hard Z sound that English doesn't have - Cassano: CA as in English word "CAnterbury" + SS with prolonged hissing sound + A again as in English word "cAnterbury" + NO as in English word "no".
If you put "Vincenzo Cassano" into Google Translate form and you select Italian language, the pronunciation is the right one.
I totally agree. The subarc about Aey liking Nubsib is totally pointless. Then revealing in this episode that…
To me it was heavily hinted, since the beginning, that Aoey liked Gene. It's pretty clear in the scene when they meet for the first time (at that time Aoey had a celebrity crush on Gene) and in every single scene where Aoey interacts with Gene. The fact that he lies to Gene saying that he likes Sib, it's not pointless. He's hurting and self-loating so he (wrongly) tries to gain Gene through manipulation and guilt-tripping. Before he can have a character development, he must reach the bottom and we're now seeing this.
I pose a lot of questions in this post, but please, please don't give me any novel spoilers! I just want to share…
I hadn't read the novel so my thoughts are only about what we have seen so far in the series.
About Aoey approach to Gene, you say "Aoey might just be too messed up to even consider such a normal approach". I agree with that. I also think that he's self loathing so he probably thinks that he doesn't deserve Gene's sincere feelings and goes with manipulating and guilt-tripping him. He's also deeply hurting in a way that sometimes makes people (wrongly) want that every one else just could hurt too. To me, he had a celebrity crush for Gene. I could be wrong but I assumed it because of his body language the first time he met Gene during the auditions of "Bad Engineer the series". Teh probably, his celebrity crush developed into something more because Gene is one of the few people who's nice to him.
About Aoey behavior towards Mork, it has been quite ambivalent so far so I'm not really sure. In this episode, Aoey says that he knew for a while about Mork's feelings for him. Part of Aoey speech makes me think that he could reciprocate these feeling but also think he doesn't deserve them. But Aoey is also always angry and annoyed with Mork and I think that it's because Mork can have a role into the whole fiasco between Aoey and his family (Mhok says to Aoey "Then, you should also know why I did that, right?" What he's speaking about?).
Bisexuality exists. I don't get why people immediately jumped to him being gay and using Gene's Mom as a beard.
Actually, being in a straight relationship doesn't mean that you stop being bisexual. If Gene's dad was bisexual then, he still is now. So, as far as we know, we cannot say if he's gay or bisexual. But to me it's not so relevant at this point in the story. He clearly has internalized homophobia (we saw it also during Gene and Sib childhood flashbacks in previous episodes) and for this reason he's hurting himself, his wife and both his sons. We surely will know something more in the next ep.
In context of drama i felt gene was confused if he wants to do or not that's why even though he searched things…
To me, Gene is not confused. He's worried because he thinks that Sib is drugged (he suggests to go to the hospital) and he's also scared because it's his first time and he's afraid of the possible pain (this is clear when we discover about his search on the net) but he's clearly and totally on board. This is also clear when we see how he's the one who really initiates things by pushing Sib on the bed and stripping him of his shirt. To me, it's more like he's more afraid about Sib consent and feelings, fearing that he's acting like this because of the drug and not on his own free will .
Theories on the "looks" behind Episode 9.Theory 1: Gene's mother already suspected Gene of being gay and thereby…
To me, the two dads are 2 different "faces" of homophobia: - Gene's dad is the internalized homophobia of people who cannot accept themselves - Sib's das is the homophobia of people who need/want to keep up appearances But I could be wrong on this.
If you are watching from the official link on LineTV, you have to click on "off" on the lower right of the video (between "1.0x" and "Auto"). It will open a menu where you can turn on the official English subtitles.
So Arthur is back from the next episode. Is it possible from the way he gazes at Jeno and touches his hands in…
But hasn't Arthur already asked to Jeno to get back together? After the scene between Chris and Jeno in the gym, Chris goes out and sees someone asking someone else to get back together. They were not clearly shown, but considering Chris face while witnessing this, I assumed that it was Arthur asking Jeno...
Instead they specifically mentioned Viagra, a real medicine with real effects that everyone knows about (Gene included).
It's clearly shown that Gene and Sib are a couple that needs constant presence. Especially Sib that yearned for Gene for years from afar.
I can totally relate with them: years ago my boyfriend and I had to stay apart for 1 month (not 4) and it wrecked both of us.
Let me first say that English is not my native language so I'm struggling a little bit with expressing myself as effectively as possible.
Also, needless to say, to me consent and respect always come first and foremost in a relationship. And I'm particularly sensitive on the topic so I often felt discomfort when I saw how other BL series dealt with it.
Having said that, in that scene I think there are several factors to consider:
1) Gene is under the misconception that Sib was drugged with Viagra behind his back. So Gene knows that Sib is about to have physical reactions but is fully in his right mind.
2) Gene is insicure and inexperienced so he's probably doubting if Sib feels hot because of Gene or because of the Viagra (therefore, in the following episode, after having discovered that Aoey didn't spike the drink, Gene confronts Sib about this).
3) Sib doesn't know about the Viagra but he finds out that Gene just searched the net about first time sex so he infers that Gene is interested in having sex with him and he's just being shy and nervous.
4) Sib always asked for Gene consent and respected Gene's boundaries, hence he created a safe environment for Gene.
5) Gene and Sib have history and know each other since they were children (event though they parted ways for a few years).
All these 5 points combined make me read the whole chasing situation in a playful way rather than a pressuring way.
When you know your partner and you both created a safe environment within your relationship, boundaries are a little different and blended.
If I just met a man and he chases me for kisses and/or sex, I would feel worried and pressured and not in control of the possible outcome of the situation. But if my partner, whom I've known for years and in whom I have trust, does the same, I would feel safe to play along because I have the means to correctly understand his behavior and I also know that he would stop if I ask so or if he would catch my discomfort.
When you know your partner and there's a safe environment within your relationship, trust works from both sides: each partner trusts the other one to clearly say or show if a situation is no more comfortable for them AND ALSO trusts the other one to stop if asked so or if they catch hints of possibile discomfort.
For all tese reason, to me Sib is just being naughty and playful in order to help Gene around what he thinks is his nervousness and shyness, but sobers up and asks twice for consent (and to me, it's no coincidence that he's in a submissive position when he asks) as soon as things escalated (on Gene initiative) and get serious.
I don't want to impose my opinion, but I find this discussion really interesting so I hope I have clearly conveyed my point of view without any desire to be argumentative.
Viagra just makes men have b0ners (and can sometimes cause heart attacks, therefore Gene suggests to go to the hospital). It can be not very comfortable, but Viagra is not a sexual drug that strips someone of his right mind.
Gene is not afraid of being attacked (when they are on the couch, before Gene moves them to the bed, he's clearly worried about Sib but he's not worried about himself nor uncomfortable), instead he's trying and figuring out how to help Sib with what he thinks is his discomfort (that is Sib's b0ner caused by Viagra).
To me Gene is clearly on board with having sex with Sib: he is just being shy and nervous (we know he's introverted, a virgin and was also searching on the net if the first time hurts) and probably he is also afraid about the consent on Sib's part because of the drug. It seems to me that Gene is just being afraid that Sib is hot because of the Viagra and not because of him.
Would he have sex that night without Aoey's lie? I don't know, maybe or maybe not. And if Gene initially felt pressured into having sex because of the whole Viagra mess, it's Aoey fault, not Sib.
Sure is that they're having a misunderstanding in the beginning (manly due to Gene not telling Sib about the Viagra), but they clear everything out - especially their consent - by speaking to each other before having sex.
No, he wasn't. He did only one search on the net and it was about first time s*x.
Moreover, it's clearly shown that Sib didn't know about all the Viagra mess until the day after. He probably just thought that Gene was being shy.
He chased Gene around the room because he was being playful but he let Gene take control with initiating serious stuff and double-checked his consent by asking directly.
Then it's perfectly fine by me if the character himself said that he wanted his name pronounced using English pronunciation. I get that it's really simpler both for non-Italian actors and viewers.
And being the name Italian, you should not consider the English pronunciation/spelling.
In the Italian language the correct pronunciation of Vincenzo Cassano is:
- Vincenzo: VIN as in English word "VINtage" + CE as in English word "CHEck" + N (simple n) + ZO with a very hard Z sound that English doesn't have
- Cassano: CA as in English word "CAnterbury" + SS with prolonged hissing sound + A again as in English word "cAnterbury" + NO as in English word "no".
If you put "Vincenzo Cassano" into Google Translate form and you select Italian language, the pronunciation is the right one.
The fact that he lies to Gene saying that he likes Sib, it's not pointless. He's hurting and self-loating so he (wrongly) tries to gain Gene through manipulation and guilt-tripping.
Before he can have a character development, he must reach the bottom and we're now seeing this.
About Aoey approach to Gene, you say "Aoey might just be too messed up to even consider such a normal approach". I agree with that. I also think that he's self loathing so he probably thinks that he doesn't deserve Gene's sincere feelings and goes with manipulating and guilt-tripping him. He's also deeply hurting in a way that sometimes makes people (wrongly) want that every one else just could hurt too.
To me, he had a celebrity crush for Gene. I could be wrong but I assumed it because of his body language the first time he met Gene during the auditions of "Bad Engineer the series". Teh probably, his celebrity crush developed into something more because Gene is one of the few people who's nice to him.
About Aoey behavior towards Mork, it has been quite ambivalent so far so I'm not really sure. In this episode, Aoey says that he knew for a while about Mork's feelings for him. Part of Aoey speech makes me think that he could reciprocate these feeling but also think he doesn't deserve them. But Aoey is also always angry and annoyed with Mork and I think that it's because Mork can have a role into the whole fiasco between Aoey and his family (Mhok says to Aoey "Then, you should also know why I did that, right?" What he's speaking about?).
So, as far as we know, we cannot say if he's gay or bisexual. But to me it's not so relevant at this point in the story.
He clearly has internalized homophobia (we saw it also during Gene and Sib childhood flashbacks in previous episodes) and for this reason he's hurting himself, his wife and both his sons.
We surely will know something more in the next ep.
He's worried because he thinks that Sib is drugged (he suggests to go to the hospital) and he's also scared because it's his first time and he's afraid of the possible pain (this is clear when we discover about his search on the net) but he's clearly and totally on board.
This is also clear when we see how he's the one who really initiates things by pushing Sib on the bed and stripping him of his shirt.
To me, it's more like he's more afraid about Sib consent and feelings, fearing that he's acting like this because of the drug and not on his own free will .
- Gene's dad is the internalized homophobia of people who cannot accept themselves
- Sib's das is the homophobia of people who need/want to keep up appearances
But I could be wrong on this.
After the scene between Chris and Jeno in the gym, Chris goes out and sees someone asking someone else to get back together. They were not clearly shown, but considering Chris face while witnessing this, I assumed that it was Arthur asking Jeno...