axelcarlisle

Fluke’s function seems to be to represent how inaction / turning a blind eye to horrible things being done by your friends to another person is also a bad thing.

Jin is marketed as one of the two main leads (along with Phee). Having the main lead not have a solid backstory that strengthens his motivations and gives depth and dimension to the character is a disservice to the main character.

It would be different if Jin had not been marketed as the lead - because then, there are no expectations about the relevance and importance of the character.

And of course any back story they write for him has to move the plot forward, that’s obviously a given.

Yes, he definitely improved from KP to DFF.

Barcode is definitely 100x a better actor than Copper.

He’s referring to Uncle Deng, the caretaker or such of Por’s house. The one who got beheaded while riding the motorcycle on the way back to the house.

I think people are very critical of how underdeveloped Jin is as a character because this was marketed with Copper as the main lead alongside Ta (as part of winning THC reality competition), whereas the likes of Fluke and Top are really secondary, maybe even tertiary if we consider Jjay and Fuaiz as “next in line” (and as such the underdevelopment of White is also questionable).

If Jin is supposed to be the main lead, then the character deserved at least the same treatment that Tee’s character got in Episode 11 - an entire episode about Jin.

Thus it really is an odd choice for the writers and director to not give Jin sufficient backstory and stronger motivations - unless some comments here might be right, that Copper is lagging behind in acting skills compared to the rest and so got less screen time.

Exactly. Tee in the end might have felt remorse, but he was doing things not really for Non but to alleviate his own feelings of guilt.

And yes, he was 100% an idiot if he honestly didn’t think his uncle wouldn’t do anything harmful to Non.

Yup, his feelings of guilt likely caused him to delude himself that he had any kind of power to actually make things right.

I see now his guilt comes from at least two places.

1. The guilt of turning Non away when Non was at his lowers

2. The guilt of falling for Jin, one of Non’s (albeit indirect) bullies

I’m honestly surprised that people perceive Episode 11 as a Tee redemption arc. I didn’t see it that way. At no point was it shown that he did anything to actually redeem himself.

Getting into a relationship with White is not redemption at all. It just showed he finally brushed Non off (even if he kept the guilt inside) and moved on.

It’s an episode to make a main character three-dimensional - because before this point, Tee has been just another one-dimensional villain with a hint of softness when it comes to White. Good writers know to have the flat moustache-twirling villains be side characters (like the uncle).

This series has (mostly) been marketed as having Ta and Copper as main leads with Jjay and Fuaiz as second leads. And as such, it’s always a good idea to give your main characters clear motivations and a strong fleshing out of the character.

(Of course, this also means they dropped the ball in not fleshing the character of White out further.)

Episode 11 never struck me personally as a redemption arc, and I doubt Chookiat or Sammon or anyone in the writing team meant it to be.

In fact, it made me want to see Tee get the much needed come-uppance by the end - because what the episode told me is that no matter how awful or sad your background is, it is absolutely no excuse to treat other human beings so poorly as he did Non. And as such, he very much should get what he deserves.

(And unfortunately, it looks like it is White who might be collateral damage.)

Yup, I doubt the writer’s meant for this to be a redemption arc for Tee. I think it’s a good move to flesh out and make a character gray instead of black or white. And also meant to make his ultimatemate and deserved punishment much more tragic (likely the sacrifice of White).

This is 100% IMO the correct reading of Phee’s character.

He simply wants to alleviate the guilt he feels - perhaps not just the gulit of pushing Non away during Non’s lowest point in his life, but the guilt of falling in love with one of the very people who cost Non his life.

Correct: Phee was already on the group’s side before they ever got to the house, even if he couldn’t admit it to himself.

Agree. I think Phee is just deluding himself at this point thinking his actions (to find out what happened to bring justice for Non) are not futile, at least in his circle where the police are corrupt or else incapable of helping. Either that or he’s too naive.

I think he’s deluded himself into thinking that he wil be able to do something to solve the mystery and bring justice to Non - when IMO it’s just guilt talking subconsciously and he just wants closure (and perhaps to alleviate his guilt - to convince himself he was correcting what happened to Non, and even the possible subconscious guilt for falling for one of Non’s tormentors, even if Jin was just an “indirect” tormentor).

It most definitely will be bad writing if they go the route of that fan theory. And I have strong trust in Sammon and Chookiat they won’t go thay way.

Also, at this point, it would really be quite bad writing if the fan theories that White = Non happens.

Non was clearly extremely unhealthy at that point, very much traumatized and on the verge of dying if not really dead - and White is clearly pretty healthy and strong. Not unless there a huge time leap between White’s first appearance in Tee’s life, which it’s not likely.

(Not to mention where Non would even get the money and resources for such a surgery.)

If they end this with White being indeed just an innocent - I do get where they are coming from with such a choice, but (1) it needed more gravitas and not a last minute backstory tacked into the penultimate episode, and (2) he just becomes a blank cipher to give Tee a level of humanity.

I do think giving Tee a level of humanity in the latest episode is a good choice. Having black and white main characters don’t make for a compelling story in the end, and everyone being pretty gray (except White so far) is a solid trajectory. However, it then makes White’s role feel like nothing more than a tool to prop up Tee rather than an actual character.

It would be a disservice because they didn’t give enough time for White’s character to be fully realized even if they only meant him to represent an innocent character in all this mess.

And while it’s not a guarantee, I do suspect they kill White off in order to give Tee a most painful punishment that he does deserve.

At the same time, while I do hope White is more than just an innocent and has a more significant role / backstory, I don’t think they have enough time to reveal this in the last episode without it becoming a plot twist that randomly comes out of nowhere. That would take some really skillful foreshadowing or hints from earlier episodes; otherwise, it becomes a cop-out.

But let’s see, maybe they can surprise us. This is a critically-acclaimed director, after all, supported by a critically-acclaimed BL novelist (among others).

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As for the rest who are still alive (or at least they say is still alive… I’m still 50/50 if Non is really dead, could have been a ruse by the uncle to get Tee off his back):

Tan/New is far gone a this point, and I’m also sure he probably ends up dead, but personally I hope he lives - but gets either jail time or gets committed into an asylum. Ultimately, except for White and maybe Phee, he is the biggest victim in the house, having his entire family wiped out by the actions of this group. Again, he also deserves to be brought to justice (especially if it’s confirmed he knowingly killed Uncle Dang), but I think the best end for him is an asylum. I doubt it will happen though - chances are he’ll end up dead. Or they leave it open-ended with him escaping.

Two episodes ago, I still thought that Tee is the worst - but they did a fairly decent job of giving him a solid backstory in the latest episode. I still think he absolutely is the most responsible (among the group) for what happened to Non, but he was given clear realistic motivations, a level of humanity, and some form of character evolution. While I think he deserves punishment, the writers at least gave him multiple dimensions instead of painting him as just black. And while I personally hope White survives this, I’m almost sure he will get sacrificed to give Tee the worst punishment he can get.

At this point, Jin has probably become the worst. So far, he still barely shows remorse - or at least just still intrinsically shifts the blame to everyone else. I think what is bothersome is his high horse about the whole thing. At least we now see that Tee has some form of guilt and actually tried to do something concrete in the past. Jin has shown minimal signs (if at all) of guilt, has the audacity to question Phee and Tan/New’s deceptions when he is even worse in that area, and somehow feels he has any moral ground in all of this (newsflash: none of them have any moral ground except White for now).

It’s also implicit that he shows no true guilt about Non. He’s the only one whose hallucinations involve Keng, not Non. That’s subconsciousness talking right there.

Fluke - well, so far, he is the “inaction / turn a blind eye” character, but there is a possibility that he gets thrown under the bus in the last episode to give Jin some kind of “out” for his actions. It won’t be a surprise if they end up revealing Fluke as having leaked the video and not Jin in order to allow Jin a “safe end” given he’s supposed to be the main lead along with Phee. Of course, that wouldn’t make Jin correct - he still intended to leak the video either way.

Phee just lost me at this point. I agree he is so far the most clear-headed character, and I get why he would want to deescalate the situation by turning on Tan. But all of this remains moot when you consider that he barely reacted to all of the revelations that Jin made regarding his (Jin’s) role in what happened to Non. Dude, I get falling in love with Jin could have happened, but to not even react negatively to Jin is quite telling.

Any actual decent human being would have reacted to those revelations like White did when he learned Tee’s part in the entire thing. But Phee is all “meh” and then just goes about like Jin wasn’t a horrible person for everything he did. It’s quite telling of Phee’s character.

Really, at this point, unless they have some kind of unexpected twist around White, White is probably the only one who deserves any kind of sympathy.

But then, I suppose it’s a testament to how well this series has delineated its characters - pretty much no one is black/white, and gray characters are always the best to work with.

White having insecurities about being ugly or “filthy” definitely is intriguing. His hallucination in an early episode where he was getting rashes or whatever those were on his skin is reflective of this, but unfortunately they didn’t really give it time to develop further since they put him into the backstory very late. And having only one episode left, I doubt they’ll be able to adequately delve into it.

GMMTV’s management of BL is dismal nowadays because they overexpose and overproduce. They churn out way too many - quality has gone way down in favor of quantity. Not to mention, their formula just gets repeated over and over and over.

BOC is not perfect, but at least they put some thought into what they produce - thinking outside the box.

Minor correction - Sammon is a she. She is also a doctor in real life, hence many of her BL novels have medical angles. And while she is only one of several screenwriters for DFF, her mark is all over the piece especially when it comes to the medical-related stuff (like how to keep Por alive, etc.)

But also, Tan told the drugged Top to go after those who were responsible for what happened to Non. So it could also be that he didn’t think Phi was in any real danger from Top because Top would only target his OG friends.

Non being trafficked does seem to be what the previews imply.

Quite interesting considering “Manner of Death,” which Sammon (one of the DFF screenwriters) also wrote, had trafficking as a key plot point.