Oh look! It's the notorious "lo_ve," back with a stupid and intrusive front-page article about other people's personal, romantic business, complete with syrupy, insipid quotes from agency PR hacks, urging us to "look warmly on their relationship."
Why does MDL continue to post this trash on the front page? Who cares? None of our business? But then, of course, the article is actually longer AFTER the disclosure of the alleged dating, bringing us up to date on every damn thing either one is doing professionally. Surely, this wouldn't be a fake relationship to give agencies an excuse to hype upcoming shows, through social media...would it?
Oooh, they were "spotted dating on the street!" I'm wondering how it's possible to know they were "dating" on the street. Do people just look different when they're "dating," as opposed to when they're just meeting up as friends for coffee?
Oh, but that's right, we have confirmation from the agencies of both parties that they "are getting to know each other with good feelings." Because, you know, getting to know each other with "bad feelings" kind of sucks.
Korea has the weirdest, most caustic celebrity/fan culture I have ever encountered. If one of these two were spotted enjoying some weed or looking funny at a cocktail waitress, we'd go from glowing beatitudes to calls for their immediate cancellation. Then we'd get a suicide, which would doubtless lead to yet another excuse for a front-page article.
But, I have a question: Is it only K-Pop "idols" who get cancelled for "betraying their fans" by dating? Is dating OK for actors but not idols? Why?
Qian is extremely confused and his actions is driven by his brotherly instincts for the time being... In his eyes…
EXACTLY. And DENIAL and FEAR are what Qian is experiencing and why he is going to such lengths to stay in the closet. Which is not the same thing as being UNAWARE that he is gay or has gay feelings. He is approaching his sexuality in the exact OPPOSITE way from Yuan, who is accepting of who and what he is. To me, that dichotomy is an integral facet of this story. One gay man living in lies, the other in truth. It's a big part of why this BL is so powerful.
I was aware that I was at least very "different" from my male peers by early grade school, and I knew I was sexually attracted to other boys shortly thereafter. And I grew up centuries ago in a conservative U.S. state. Kids have sexual feelings much earlier than most adults choose to remember about themselves once they become parents.
That denial and fear that gay kids feel every minute of every day as they grow up is why many of us suffer emotional/mental problems that never go away; we just learn how to live with them and overcome them.
Qian is extremely confused and his actions is driven by his brotherly instincts for the time being... In his eyes…
Jesus, "relax, why are you so angry?" This is what MDLers come up with when they get into a discussion with someone who argues their position unapologetically, without every third phrase being "this is only my opinion," or "I don't mean to offend you," or "please forgive me for disagreeing with you," or "please excuse me for being alive."
The fact that I write an opinion means it's MY opinion. There's no need to state that fact. And I don't apologize for using my brain to form thoughts or my fingers on the keyboard to express them.
You seem to STILL be arguing that YOUR interpretation of the character is the precise one intended by the writer. Is that correct? The writer of the novel or the writer of the screenplay for the series? And how do you know the intention of the writer of either? The best you can do is guess, like me. We guess way different because humans don't think the way you claim Qian does.
I have seen every watchable BL in existence, so I am well-aware of the "gay for YOU" trope. It's stupid and insulting to the audience. I don't get why you folks have such a hard time imagining that a character's actions and words do not accurately reflect their inner thinking, that people say and do things ALL THE TIME to hide their true selves from others. This is not news. When I hear a BL character say "I am only gay for YOU," my rather rational brain deduces that they are...wait for it...LYING.
The people I've been arguing with above claimed Qian is "UNAWARE" of his homosexuality, which is something quite different from not being "100% sure" about it, as you write. They're saying Qian has NO IDEA he's gay, as opposed to thinking "am I gay?" "Am I bi?" "Am I straight?" See the difference? They're alleging that Qian has never experienced, in all his years, a sexual attraction to another man. I call BS.
People don't "turn" gay or "become" gay. They are born gay...or bi or straight, or whatever.
Finally, I don't care if the novel was written in 1948; the series was made in 2023 and as far as I can tell, the series is SET in the present day. So there goes your argument about that.
BTW, you sound awfully...upset. Are you OK? Why are you so irritable and rude?
The five stages of emotional acceptance – denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. (Yes this is…
Yes, it will be nice for him when he gets to the stage of "accepting" his homosexuality. At that point he can let go of the stress of denying to himself what he already feels and knows to be the case, which is not the same as being UNAWARE of those things.
Qian is extremely confused and his actions is driven by his brotherly instincts for the time being... In his eyes…
"This drama has portrayed Qian as not interested in romance with females and no attraction to males." Are you saying Qian is Asexual? Are you saying it's not possible he told the young woman investor of his disinterest because he's hiding his homosexuality and doesn't want to complicate things further by faking an attraction to her? Are you saying it's not possible he is fully attracted to men but in the closet?
"So this would be a case of i am not gay i just love you." lol Are you serious? Anyone who says that is a liar, just as Qian will be a liar if he says it to Yuan.
Speaking of Yuan, he is currently, along with Lili, just about the only remotely honest person in this drama. He has asked "why can't I love Qian?" but he has also asked "why can't I like men?" He doesn't feel the need to play the "only gay for YOU" game, which only exists in BLs in the first place.
Qian is extremely confused and his actions is driven by his brotherly instincts for the time being... In his eyes…
"...Qian is not narrow minded but not yet Open minded about homosexuality..."
If a person is "not yet open-minded..." then it follow that they are closed/narrow-minded. It's fun to read you all contorting yourself into spastic, figure-eights to come up with excuses for Qian's current state of being closeted. Why is it so difficult to accept that he's fully aware of his feelings for Yuan but not anywhere near ready to accept them, which totally explains his over-reaction to Yuan's confessions?
Qian can't look Yuan in the eyes and he hid at the office because he's every bit as much in love with Yuan as…
"Why are you so angry and bitter? " Why do you think I'm angry and bitter? Because you dislike the points I make? Since we're calling names, however, why are you so lame and stupid?
It's a terrible thing to throw spoilers around. Talk about whatever interviews you want, but put it behind a spoiler if it reveals anything not presented on the screen to that point. This isn't hard to understand.
"Let them tell the story they want to tell us." Am I preventing that? How? You're assuming to know the interior workings of the characters' minds just like I am. Still, you're not willing to admit you have NO WAY of knowing the WHY of Qian's and SP's psychological motivations any better than do I. You like them, they're hot, and so you like to think they couldn't possibly be acting/thinking in ways that can be justifiably criticized.
As for your last statement...hahaha, dear god, you're oblivious. (Oh dear, was that 'angry and bitter?') How can a person be "confused" about their sexuality unless they are AWARE of the various feelings they are having? The confusion emerges from the pressure, as you mentioned, to put themselves in a defined category when they don't have to. That said, the vast majority of humans are gay or straight with some minor overlapping, whether you like it or not.
To the gay community, people who do not understand us are homophobic. That might be true, but surely there is…
You're nuts, but thanks for the self-righteous, prophetical rant. It was entertaining to read. I'm picturing you perched with your gnarly wood-branch staff, robes and wild, silver hair flowing, as you babble at full volume into the empty wind.
It's always telling that your type sees "hatred" where there is none. Acknowledging reality does not require the wasted emotion of hate, but accusing someone who disagrees with you of "hate" is a simple, and lame attempt to discredit what they've said by attributing it to negative emotionalism. Cuts no ice with me.
"Gay vs. straight?" lol, most of the people I know and love are straight. Did you know it's possible to be straight and not at all homophobic? No, really! It is! Projection is a thing, and it's oozing out of your every pore.
Finally, yes, I do like dictionaries. Words have actual meanings, though people like you throw them around as if they mean whatever you want them to mean in the moment.
To the gay community, people who do not understand us are homophobic. That might be true, but surely there is…
"He wants ZY to be straight, but not for the reason that gay is wrong. "
What a sad. desperate rationalization to make. How about a comparison: "He wishes his sister's husband was white instead of black, but not for the reason that there's anything wrong with being black." Does that statement work for you too?
I think you're making the mistake of defending Qian and SP because they're predominantly decent, likable people. LOTS of likable people are bigots. And no, I don't "tolerate" bigotry, no matter who the bigot is. Which doesn't necessarily mean I refuse to have anything to do with the bigot, were they a close, personal friend or relative. BUT if, over time, their position did not change, I would definitely cease to include them in my life.
For more, please read my response to the comment above.
To the gay community, people who do not understand us are homophobic. That might be true, but surely there is…
You're deluding yourself. Both Qian and SP have explained in detail to Yuan why he should "straighten" up and marry, have a family, etc. They've gone on and on about how hard being gay is, so he should somehow just turn himself straight. This is all regardless of who any specific man would be.
Regarding your comment and the one above it, it's kind of sad to read gay people twisting themselves into pretzels to excuse away the anti-gay attitudes surrounding them.
From the dictionary: homophobia irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people
It doesn't matter WHY Qian and SP think the way they do, the fact remains their attitudes, words, and actions are homophobic in the extreme. Just ask Yuan.
You are free to like / dislike a movie, but if you watched the film entirely, you'd realise that your impression…
"Cultural differences should be respected."
There are cultures still today that practice slavery. Many cultures subjugate and degrade women. In the U.S., where I live, there are more guns than people and mass shootings are common. It's part of our culture. Do you respect those "cultural differences?" I sure don't. Nor do I respect women walking pigeon-toed or speaking in baby voices, wherever they do it.
"But your reply sounded like a statement of hate towards Japanese women and culture in general, thus I said "your tone sounds racist". I did not accuse you. I merely pointed out my interpretation of your comments."
What a lame load of horseshit. You accused me. By the way, you sound like an arrogant, but stupid person. Did I just accuse you of being arrogant and stupid? Why no, I merely pointed out my interpretation of your comments.
"Not gonna reply anymore."
Thank god.
Oh, and Japanese, Korean, and Han Chinese DNA differs by less than 1%. Deal with it.
Qian can't look Yuan in the eyes and he hid at the office because he's every bit as much in love with Yuan as…
From a lifetime of experience as a gay man, and knowing a great many other gay men, I've come to believe this "my gay feelings were buried so deep even I was unaware of them" is 99.9% BS. A LOT of us tell ourselves and others that story as we're coming out, at whatever speed we need to, but even as we say it we know it's not true. Saying shit like that is one of many steps on the way toward getting comfortable with ourselves before we're ready to be 100% honest.
How many straight people say "oh my straight sexual feelings were buried so deep I wasn't aware of them until I was 30?"
The "I'm only gay for YOU, buddy" thing, which is a real thing we tell each other, comes from the same bedrock of fear.
I'd appreciate you not throwing out spoilers based on things you've read or heard in interviews. I'd like to base my experience of this series on what is contained in the series itself without "oh but they said this in an interview" or "this is what happened in the novel" type stuff being tossed around. Thanks.
As we know, adaptations often vary widely from their source material, and if they don't, I don't want to know that either, not having read the novel.
Wow. First-rate, feature film-level acting from the leads especially. Nice.
It's been a while since I've cried multiple times during one episode of a BL. It's nice to have that problem again. :) Yuan sitting at the foot of the stairs in the house, crying while Qian the big baby was hiding at the office, did me in.
Qian is a big old closet-queen. Straight guys don't tell a beautiful, obviously interested female colleague they're "not Interested," because straight guys WOULD BE "interested." He hid at the office because he's not nearly as strong or brave as Yuan when it comes to facing his sexuality and what his heart wants. Yuan keeps asking multiple people "why can't I just love him?" And no one has had a coherent, non-homophobic answer yet.
San Pang has a resonant, baritone speaking voice that makes me wet, but he's an asshole. I kept hoping Yuan would punch him.
I hope Yuan finds a big, tall, handsome American boyfriend in New York, who treats him as he deserves to be treated, and brings him back to Taipei with him just to drive Qian insane with jealousy.
I'm a big fan of the writing and the characters, but Qian not talking to Yuan was very, very questionable and…
Qian can't look Yuan in the eyes and he hid at the office because he's every bit as much in love with Yuan as vice versa, and he knows now that everything is in the open, those puppy eyes could be the end of him; he'd fall to pieces.
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Why does MDL continue to post this trash on the front page? Who cares? None of our business? But then, of course, the article is actually longer AFTER the disclosure of the alleged dating, bringing us up to date on every damn thing either one is doing professionally. Surely, this wouldn't be a fake relationship to give agencies an excuse to hype upcoming shows, through social media...would it?
Oooh, they were "spotted dating on the street!" I'm wondering how it's possible to know they were "dating" on the street. Do people just look different when they're "dating," as opposed to when they're just meeting up as friends for coffee?
Oh, but that's right, we have confirmation from the agencies of both parties that they "are getting to know each other with good feelings." Because, you know, getting to know each other with "bad feelings" kind of sucks.
Korea has the weirdest, most caustic celebrity/fan culture I have ever encountered. If one of these two were spotted enjoying some weed or looking funny at a cocktail waitress, we'd go from glowing beatitudes to calls for their immediate cancellation. Then we'd get a suicide, which would doubtless lead to yet another excuse for a front-page article.
But, I have a question: Is it only K-Pop "idols" who get cancelled for "betraying their fans" by dating? Is dating OK for actors but not idols? Why?
Cycle never ends. Nothing has been learned.
So I was sort of joshing with you by asking the same questions. :P
I was aware that I was at least very "different" from my male peers by early grade school, and I knew I was sexually attracted to other boys shortly thereafter. And I grew up centuries ago in a conservative U.S. state. Kids have sexual feelings much earlier than most adults choose to remember about themselves once they become parents.
That denial and fear that gay kids feel every minute of every day as they grow up is why many of us suffer emotional/mental problems that never go away; we just learn how to live with them and overcome them.
The fact that I write an opinion means it's MY opinion. There's no need to state that fact. And I don't apologize for using my brain to form thoughts or my fingers on the keyboard to express them.
You seem to STILL be arguing that YOUR interpretation of the character is the precise one intended by the writer. Is that correct? The writer of the novel or the writer of the screenplay for the series? And how do you know the intention of the writer of either? The best you can do is guess, like me. We guess way different because humans don't think the way you claim Qian does.
I have seen every watchable BL in existence, so I am well-aware of the "gay for YOU" trope. It's stupid and insulting to the audience. I don't get why you folks have such a hard time imagining that a character's actions and words do not accurately reflect their inner thinking, that people say and do things ALL THE TIME to hide their true selves from others. This is not news. When I hear a BL character say "I am only gay for YOU," my rather rational brain deduces that they are...wait for it...LYING.
The people I've been arguing with above claimed Qian is "UNAWARE" of his homosexuality, which is something quite different from not being "100% sure" about it, as you write. They're saying Qian has NO IDEA he's gay, as opposed to thinking "am I gay?" "Am I bi?" "Am I straight?" See the difference? They're alleging that Qian has never experienced, in all his years, a sexual attraction to another man. I call BS.
People don't "turn" gay or "become" gay. They are born gay...or bi or straight, or whatever.
Finally, I don't care if the novel was written in 1948; the series was made in 2023 and as far as I can tell, the series is SET in the present day. So there goes your argument about that.
BTW, you sound awfully...upset. Are you OK? Why are you so irritable and rude?
Kim Kang Woo is at his hottest and Park Sung Woong is at his badass best here. Jung Jin Young is great too.
The above-mentioned plot hole and a few others took this from a 9/10 to a 7/10 from me.
Still, I recommend it.
"So this would be a case of i am not gay i just love you." lol Are you serious? Anyone who says that is a liar, just as Qian will be a liar if he says it to Yuan.
Speaking of Yuan, he is currently, along with Lili, just about the only remotely honest person in this drama. He has asked "why can't I love Qian?" but he has also asked "why can't I like men?" He doesn't feel the need to play the "only gay for YOU" game, which only exists in BLs in the first place.
If a person is "not yet open-minded..." then it follow that they are closed/narrow-minded. It's fun to read you all contorting yourself into spastic, figure-eights to come up with excuses for Qian's current state of being closeted. Why is it so difficult to accept that he's fully aware of his feelings for Yuan but not anywhere near ready to accept them, which totally explains his over-reaction to Yuan's confessions?
Why do you think I'm angry and bitter? Because you dislike the points I make? Since we're calling names, however, why are you so lame and stupid?
It's a terrible thing to throw spoilers around. Talk about whatever interviews you want, but put it behind a spoiler if it reveals anything not presented on the screen to that point. This isn't hard to understand.
"Let them tell the story they want to tell us." Am I preventing that? How? You're assuming to know the interior workings of the characters' minds just like I am. Still, you're not willing to admit you have NO WAY of knowing the WHY of Qian's and SP's psychological motivations any better than do I. You like them, they're hot, and so you like to think they couldn't possibly be acting/thinking in ways that can be justifiably criticized.
As for your last statement...hahaha, dear god, you're oblivious. (Oh dear, was that 'angry and bitter?') How can a person be "confused" about their sexuality unless they are AWARE of the various feelings they are having? The confusion emerges from the pressure, as you mentioned, to put themselves in a defined category when they don't have to. That said, the vast majority of humans are gay or straight with some minor overlapping, whether you like it or not.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx
It's always telling that your type sees "hatred" where there is none. Acknowledging reality does not require the wasted emotion of hate, but accusing someone who disagrees with you of "hate" is a simple, and lame attempt to discredit what they've said by attributing it to negative emotionalism. Cuts no ice with me.
"Gay vs. straight?" lol, most of the people I know and love are straight. Did you know it's possible to be straight and not at all homophobic? No, really! It is! Projection is a thing, and it's oozing out of your every pore.
Finally, yes, I do like dictionaries. Words have actual meanings, though people like you throw them around as if they mean whatever you want them to mean in the moment.
Oh, oh, oh...how old am I?
What a sad. desperate rationalization to make. How about a comparison: "He wishes his sister's husband was white instead of black, but not for the reason that there's anything wrong with being black." Does that statement work for you too?
I think you're making the mistake of defending Qian and SP because they're predominantly decent, likable people. LOTS of likable people are bigots. And no, I don't "tolerate" bigotry, no matter who the bigot is. Which doesn't necessarily mean I refuse to have anything to do with the bigot, were they a close, personal friend or relative. BUT if, over time, their position did not change, I would definitely cease to include them in my life.
For more, please read my response to the comment above.
Regarding your comment and the one above it, it's kind of sad to read gay people twisting themselves into pretzels to excuse away the anti-gay attitudes surrounding them.
From the dictionary:
homophobia
irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people
It doesn't matter WHY Qian and SP think the way they do, the fact remains their attitudes, words, and actions are homophobic in the extreme. Just ask Yuan.
There are cultures still today that practice slavery. Many cultures subjugate and degrade women. In the U.S., where I live, there are more guns than people and mass shootings are common. It's part of our culture. Do you respect those "cultural differences?" I sure don't. Nor do I respect women walking pigeon-toed or speaking in baby voices, wherever they do it.
"But your reply sounded like a statement of hate towards Japanese women and culture in general, thus I said "your tone sounds racist". I did not accuse you. I merely pointed out my interpretation of your comments."
What a lame load of horseshit. You accused me. By the way, you sound like an arrogant, but stupid person. Did I just accuse you of being arrogant and stupid? Why no, I merely pointed out my interpretation of your comments.
"Not gonna reply anymore."
Thank god.
Oh, and Japanese, Korean, and Han Chinese DNA differs by less than 1%. Deal with it.
How many straight people say "oh my straight sexual feelings were buried so deep I wasn't aware of them until I was 30?"
The "I'm only gay for YOU, buddy" thing, which is a real thing we tell each other, comes from the same bedrock of fear.
I'd appreciate you not throwing out spoilers based on things you've read or heard in interviews. I'd like to base my experience of this series on what is contained in the series itself without "oh but they said this in an interview" or "this is what happened in the novel" type stuff being tossed around. Thanks.
As we know, adaptations often vary widely from their source material, and if they don't, I don't want to know that either, not having read the novel.
It's been a while since I've cried multiple times during one episode of a BL. It's nice to have that problem again. :) Yuan sitting at the foot of the stairs in the house, crying while Qian the big baby was hiding at the office, did me in.
Qian is a big old closet-queen. Straight guys don't tell a beautiful, obviously interested female colleague they're "not Interested," because straight guys WOULD BE "interested." He hid at the office because he's not nearly as strong or brave as Yuan when it comes to facing his sexuality and what his heart wants. Yuan keeps asking multiple people "why can't I just love him?" And no one has had a coherent, non-homophobic answer yet.
San Pang has a resonant, baritone speaking voice that makes me wet, but he's an asshole. I kept hoping Yuan would punch him.
I hope Yuan finds a big, tall, handsome American boyfriend in New York, who treats him as he deserves to be treated, and brings him back to Taipei with him just to drive Qian insane with jealousy.