Very good drama ( though I haven't finish it yet) but this back and forth in the story plot between the different years without indicating the dates is confusing and extremely tiring. And that because they haven't manage to distinguish clearly the different years by the clothes or the cars or even the appearance of the characters that don't seem to age even though the case goes on for more than a decade.
Updated: corrected the year 2049 to 2091 (also corrected Section 6). I remembered incorrectly the year the Ghost…
Perhaps the kid is the inventor of the Grid. It is after all about two generations younger than the Ghost. But then again this is not very valid option because the kid would have been still alive in 2021 in the normal world. It is not after all that the Ghost went back to the past in order to save the kid that it invented as an adult the Grid. She went back to install the Grid. So it is a technology that there was no chance to be developed in the "present" world ( 1997-2021 and onward with or without solar flare).
It doesn't also make sense the murder of the janitor. The Ghost ( as long as it was present and wasn't disappeared ) killed the janitor after she had installed the Grid. She installed the Grid and then she went out to kill the janitor in order to prevent him from taking the kid out of the building. When she was delayed and didn't have the time to make the installation and prevent these two from getting out of the building she disappeared. And from this point and on didn't reappear.
There is also another thing that doesn't make sense that I mentioned earlier. That the transport device is still the same. I mentioned previously that Sae Ha took the Ghost's device. So the scene were they are both present on the same time line with the same device is a bit off because the device can't be duplicated because it is the mean to make the time travel. If the device was duplicated then there would have been infinite numbers of devices. Everyone and anyone that could steal the Ghost's device s/he would have had then it's own device. It doesn't make sense to see each and everyone traveling in time with the same device and the same implant and meeting the others that have the same device and the same implant in the same timeline. Because it the device is allowed ( by any time travel law) to be duplicated then the persons would be duplicated too just because they traveled to the same time line from two other different timelines.
Ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... Do you know what is printed on Shinkai's sweater on the beginning of the 2nd episode? It writes that he is a jerk in Greek. ΜΑΛΑΚΑ means jerk or as$hole. loool
This is not a good print for a sweater or a T-shirt. The word is used as an insult or in the best case derogatory. Let's hope that this sweater didn't become a trend in Japan! ha ha ha ha
What makes him so popular and successful IMHO is his casual way of acting and his "next door guy" appearance. You never feel that he is acting because he does so, so naturally. His acting is never over the top, it is just cool and natural. And you lose completely the notion that he is an actor because his appearance is not something so extremely perfect to separate him from the average viewer. You can easily identify with him and that is the reason why he is so persuasive in his roles. And that is also the reason why he is so good on setting trends and selling products.
Updated: corrected the year 2049 to 2091 (also corrected Section 6). I remembered incorrectly the year the Ghost…
I didn't miss any part of it. If the world had no Grid those who survived and were affected by the radiation wouldn't be able to have children in the first place. Also I didn't say that it doesn't matter if one of her parents is killed but that it doesn't matter WHEN one of her parents is killed. Either way she wouldn't be born. The final result would be the same. That is the reason why I said that she probably is a product of the non destroyed world. She is two generations ( each of 25 years) forward. So yes... technically if the kid is related to her is a grandparent and not a parent.
I am 0- but only my mum has 0- too. My brother and father both have 0+... so despite it being recessive it doesn't…
You belong probably to the rare exceptions. But either way you can't inherit a negative blood type from two positive parents. So if you ever need blood the first donor would be your mother. And if she can't give you blood then it would be her siblings or her parents. The first persons that are asked to donate blood, particularly very rare blood types, are the close relatives. It also depends on how "difficult" is your blood type. Yours is difficult because you can donate blood to anyone with Rh negative blood type, but you can get blood only from your blood type. I have the rarest blood type, I can take blood from anyone with negative blood type but I can donate only to people with my blood type. ( which hopefully are very few).
Updated: corrected the year 2049 to 2091 (also corrected Section 6). I remembered incorrectly the year the Ghost…
Even if that is the case and the child was one of her parents then failing to install the Grid would have had the exact same result. Her parent would have been killed later on 2005 when the solar wind destroyed the world. Does it really matter when exactly one of her parents was killed? The story up until now is No Grid- No Ghost in 1997. But we do know that she got back in 1997 and that is where the paradox lies with or without the contribution of the janitor's kid ( or whoever's was that child.... " Billie Jean is not my lover.....and the kid is not my son.... " ha ha haaaaa... Sorry for laughing but I can't it seriously anymore!
Updated: corrected the year 2049 to 2091 (also corrected Section 6). I remembered incorrectly the year the Ghost…
I don't see how the Ghost lady's existence could be related with the Janitor's and Sae Ho's father. The third time after all that Sae Ho went back to 1997 to reverse the results of his second attempt ( where the Ghost disappeared) she wasn't any more there and his dad was killed ( that was in the finale of this episode). So her disappearance due to the fact that she failed to install the Grid was definite. She has gone from 1997 and his father was killed either way.
I have read your opinion yet to be honest... I've just read your suggestion to the admins... but no opinion per se. So I don't know what are you talking about.
Updated: corrected the year 2049 to 2091 (also corrected Section 6). I remembered incorrectly the year the Ghost…
Let's break it down briefly because we over analyzing it here.
The device and its bearer didn't come from the non destroyed world. They both came from a destroyed world where the bearer though seems that she didn't exist. And we know that, because the bearer disappeared the moment that failed to install the Grid that was supposed to save the world.
That is the plot hole that the writer introduced in this drama and spoiled it.
If the Ghost lady existed in the destroyed world then she shouldn't have disappear and the normal world was destroyed, exactly because she failed to install the Grid.
But she DID disappear something that tell us that she is a product of a future non destroyed world, which has the means to retain the Grid and to make the time travel device.
In other words we have here a huge time travel paradox as in plenty of other time travel dramas and the writer is obviously randomly adding things in the plot. That is why I said on another comment that after this episode the shit hit the fan! lol
I have probably sarcastic opinions and I'm 100% entitled to have them. What is your problem with my opinions?
Do you know me? Have you ever met me? Are you going to meet me perhaps? I'm one person among another 7 billion people in this planet. Why do you care that much about MY opinion? Is it so influential to you?
I agree with you. The final speech was a fantastic performance. I wonder how many days it took him to rehearse…
Unless he had an autocue in front of him. Like all politicians and broadcasters use. But then again even with an autocue he should have had rehearsed the speech because he had to act while he was reading it. And this speech had a lot of close ups. Anyway this drama was fantastic mostly for its humor and on how realistically depicted the attitude of the politicians all around the world. That is more about power games and not that much about serving their people. It is so spot on.
UPDATED!Corrected the year the Ghost came from, I incorrectly recalled it as 2049 instead of 2091. Section 6 was…
I think she said that she was born in 2049 and that she came back from 2091. Whatever if the date she was born way to late which means that she was born in an non destroyed world. Because in the no Grid world she simply doesn't exist.
Updated: corrected the year 2049 to 2091 (also corrected Section 6). I remembered incorrectly the year the Ghost…
> She is not. At least as far as the show has revealed, the time travel mechanics in the show is not based on the MWI (many-worlds interpretation) theory. In the Grid, there is only one timeline. If a time traveler changes something in a time period they are not supposed to be at (relatively speaking), it changes their own reality. No branch of time/universe is created by their actions.<
Yes but the Ghost is not already in the no Grid time line. So she is not already in the same time line. She is definitely coming from a destroyed world otherwise she wouldn't have had a reason to go back in time to give them the Grid.
> == Yes, it's what I said. ^_^
I was making a summary of what you've said.
> Good point. However, as I explained, the possible scenario between 2021 and 2091 is that when the Grid failed it was irreparable. It is not something that they can fix even if they have an advance knowledge. There are two things happening in that scenario: 1. The Grid was based on technology so old (1997-2005) they can not do anything with it. This actually happens in real life, even to this very day, there simply are old technologies that we can not upgrade. 1a. They could've had replaced it. But we can suspect that a replacement was not prepared at all -- humans are like that especially when economies, politics, and the military, are concerned. We tend to think "we'll cross the bridge when we get there" but by the time we do cross the bridge, it is too late. Those people who think "prevention is better than cure" were probably blocked by those countries and financiers who only care about themselves and their money. 1b. Going back to 1997 is much better, quicker, and safer, than changing the minds of politicians and those with the money to help build a replacement.<
Even if that was the case they would be able to fix it because they had already advanced the technology that the Ghost gave them back in 1997. Sae Ha said upon arriving the first time in 1997 and saw her typing the code in the pc that they didn't use anymore this software. And the manager in the lab ( that one that was killed ) said the same. That they had advanced the technology in between. So it wasn't like they didn't have the means to fix the Grid and at the end of the day they didn't have a reason to update that much that technology as the solar flare didn't change. The Grid was there to protect them from the same thing probably a collapse of the Earth's magnetic shield.
> 2. They are advance in their science and technology knowledge that they can not understand how old science and technology works. This also happens in real life. Good examples are the pyramids in Egypt and Greek Fire. We still do not understand how the pyramids at Giza, and the Greek Fire were built/made. We are too advance in our S&T that we can't unlock the secrets of a "primitive" civilization.<
In less than a century...?
> If another time traveler was the source of the first iteration of the Grid, and then s/he fixed it, then yes, there is no reason for that time traveller--or any time traveller for that matter--to go back to 1997. If no time traveller go back to 1997, then the Grid will not be installed. This is called a grandfather paradox. To prevent a grandfather paradox, the writer needs to make a reason for time travellers to go back to 1997 and install the Grid.<
That is exactly my point. The story line falls in the grandfather paradox. The writer hasn't shown that damn reason yet and the disappearance of the Ghost made the things more complicated, (for him... not for us lol).
> That reason is, again just a theory, the Grid failed sometime between 2021 and 2091 and it is irreparable. By 2091, they have a reason to send someone back in 1997 to install the Grid (possibly a better version). But it is always failing between 2021 and 2091, so once again, by 2091 a time traveler is sent back to 1997. A constant loop, and it is the only way to 2091 and the Ghost to exist.
I've wrote it on my previous comment. Even if that is the case the Ghost didn't have any reason to travel that back in time to reinstall the primitive version of the Grid. They had already taken this technology, used it and advanced it. It would have been more effective if she traveled a year or some days before the collapse of the Grid to ( sudo apt-get ha ha ha ) update upgrade their software to prevent the collapse.
> As I've explained, the Ghost did not come from the "no grid" reality. In episode 7, she disappeared when she failed to install the grid.
And she definitely didn't come from a possible collapse of the Grid as you assumed that it happened between 2021 and 2091. The/any failure to install the Grid and pass the information to the 1997 scientists for further development, means that she couldn't be born in 2049 which means that she or her family were impacted from the failure of the first installation and not from a collapse of the Grid that might have happened afterwards. She was born way to late to say it otherwise.
> The only possible explanation currently is the writer is also using the fictional "time bubble" theory. > a. In episode 7, she disappeared after she was distracted. Meaning, there is only a fix time window to install the Grid.<
No this can't be the case as I explained above. She was born way to late. The failure to install the Grid and her followed disappearance means that she or her parents were affected by the solar flare. She disappeared because she wasn't born because her parents were killed or became sterilized due to radiation.
> b. In the earlier episodes, she was caught in CCTVs in various laboratories around the world, installing the Grid. They figured out that all her appearances in the CCTV were on the exact same time. This supports the possibility that there is only a fix window to install the Grid.<
Why? Any time prior to the collapse of the Earth's magnetic field would have been just fine. She could travel at any time she wanted with the device.
> So, when she got distracted by the emotional outburst of SH, she failed to install the grid in that "time bubble" (the fix time window). By failing, her "grid" reality" disappeared because she doesn't exist in the "no grid" reality. I think what you are asking is: if she does not exist in the "no grid" reality, then how come SH still have a time travel device?<
That among other things but what I'm saying is that if she doesn't exist in the " no grid " reality then she can't go back in time to give them the Grid. But she does exist in the "no grid" time line, and that is her motive to go back to give them the Grid and when she fails to do so she just disappears! This doesn't make sense because it is certain that she does exist in the "no Grid " reality.
> ==I did not explain that in detail in my original post. Here are the possible reasons why: > 1. In fiction, it is a common trope that a time travel device (a portable one usually), once invented will always exist no matter if the cause of its creation was stopped. > 2. Another common trope is, when non-living things are carried through time, even if the person who brought it was erased from reality, since it is a non-living thing, it will stay where it is. Only the living things (the time traveler in this case) will disappear. If you combine #1 and #2, then it's a very solid reason why SH still have the portable time travel device even after the Ghost disappeared.<
I don't think that this works this way because in order for SH to get the device she should exist in the first place in the "no Grid" world. But the writer showed us in this episode that she doesn't because when she failed to install the Grid she just disappeared. If she doesn't exist in destroyed world she can't go back in the past to give him the device.
> 3. Another trope, though not popular, the time travel device still exist because in the "no grid" reality, the device also exist. It was probably invented and created in 2090s. It is even possible it was created in 2424 (it does not matter when it was invented). As long as time travel is possible, the portable device will exist. It does not matter how SH acquired it as long as the device was still invented. This prevents a time paradox. <
I 've mentioned that in my previous comment. The device didn't came from the non destroyed world, by the time that the Ghost lady manage to install the Grid once. From this point and on they had the technology to save the world. The Ghost lady had no reason to travel back to teach them how to operate the Grid. But on the other hand she doesn't exist in the destroyed world either in order to have the motive to use the device and go back to teach them how to make the Grid. That is the paradox no 2.
But then again this is not very valid option because the kid would have been still alive in 2021 in the normal world.
It is not after all that the Ghost went back to the past in order to save the kid that it invented as an adult the Grid. She went back to install the Grid. So it is a technology that there was no chance to be developed in the "present" world ( 1997-2021 and onward with or without solar flare).
It doesn't also make sense the murder of the janitor. The Ghost ( as long as it was present and wasn't disappeared ) killed the janitor after she had installed the Grid. She installed the Grid and then she went out to kill the janitor in order to prevent him from taking the kid out of the building.
When she was delayed and didn't have the time to make the installation and prevent these two from getting out of the building she disappeared. And from this point and on didn't reappear.
There is also another thing that doesn't make sense that I mentioned earlier. That the transport device is still the same. I mentioned previously that Sae Ha took the Ghost's device. So the scene were they are both present on the same time line with the same device is a bit off because the device can't be duplicated because it is the mean to make the time travel. If the device was duplicated then there would have been infinite numbers of devices. Everyone and anyone that could steal the Ghost's device s/he would have had then it's own device.
It doesn't make sense to see each and everyone traveling in time with the same device and the same implant and meeting the others that have the same device and the same implant in the same timeline. Because it the device is allowed ( by any time travel law) to be duplicated then the persons would be duplicated too just because they traveled to the same time line from two other different timelines.
The reason why I don't watch C-dramas is the number of episodes that are most of the times countless.
Do you know what is printed on Shinkai's sweater on the beginning of the 2nd episode? It writes that he is a jerk in Greek. ΜΑΛΑΚΑ means jerk or as$hole. loool
This is not a good print for a sweater or a T-shirt. The word is used as an insult or in the best case derogatory.
Let's hope that this sweater didn't become a trend in Japan! ha ha ha ha
And no kid= no Ghost
which bring us to the conclusion that
no kid = no Grid!
It reminds me the Logic lessons at high school! lol
Also I didn't say that it doesn't matter if one of her parents is killed but that it doesn't matter WHEN one of her parents is killed. Either way she wouldn't be born.
The final result would be the same.
That is the reason why I said that she probably is a product of the non destroyed world. She is two generations ( each of 25 years) forward. So yes... technically if the kid is related to her is a grandparent and not a parent.
The first persons that are asked to donate blood, particularly very rare blood types, are the close relatives.
It also depends on how "difficult" is your blood type. Yours is difficult because you can donate blood to anyone with Rh negative blood type, but you can get blood only from your blood type.
I have the rarest blood type, I can take blood from anyone with negative blood type but I can donate only to people with my blood type. ( which hopefully are very few).
Does it really matter when exactly one of her parents was killed?
The story up until now is No Grid- No Ghost in 1997.
But we do know that she got back in 1997 and that is where the paradox lies with or without the contribution of the janitor's kid ( or whoever's was that child.... " Billie Jean is not my lover.....and the kid is not my son.... " ha ha haaaaa...
Sorry for laughing but I can't it seriously anymore!
So her disappearance due to the fact that she failed to install the Grid was definite. She has gone from 1997 and his father was killed either way.
The device and its bearer didn't come from the non destroyed world. They both came from a destroyed world where the bearer though seems that she didn't exist. And we know that, because the bearer disappeared the moment that failed to install the Grid that was supposed to save the world.
That is the plot hole that the writer introduced in this drama and spoiled it.
If the Ghost lady existed in the destroyed world then she shouldn't have disappear and the normal world was destroyed, exactly because she failed to install the Grid.
But she DID disappear something that tell us that she is a product of a future non destroyed world, which has the means to retain the Grid and to make the time travel device.
In other words we have here a huge time travel paradox as in plenty of other time travel dramas and the writer is obviously randomly adding things in the plot.
That is why I said on another comment that after this episode the shit hit the fan! lol
Do you know me? Have you ever met me? Are you going to meet me perhaps?
I'm one person among another 7 billion people in this planet.
Why do you care that much about MY opinion? Is it so influential to you?
But then again even with an autocue he should have had rehearsed the speech because he had to act while he was reading it. And this speech had a lot of close ups.
Anyway this drama was fantastic mostly for its humor and on how realistically depicted the attitude of the politicians all around the world.
That is more about power games and not that much about serving their people.
It is so spot on.
Yes but the Ghost is not already in the no Grid time line. So she is not already in the same time line. She is definitely coming from a destroyed world otherwise she wouldn't have had a reason to go back in time to give them the Grid.
> == Yes, it's what I said. ^_^
I was making a summary of what you've said.
> Good point. However, as I explained, the possible scenario between 2021 and 2091 is that when the Grid failed it was irreparable. It is not something that they can fix even if they have an advance knowledge.
There are two things happening in that scenario:
1. The Grid was based on technology so old (1997-2005) they can not do anything with it. This actually happens in real life, even to this very day, there simply are old technologies that we can not upgrade.
1a. They could've had replaced it. But we can suspect that a replacement was not prepared at all -- humans are like that especially when economies, politics, and the military, are concerned. We tend to think "we'll cross the bridge when we get there" but by the time we do cross the bridge, it is too late. Those people who think "prevention is better than cure" were probably blocked by those countries and financiers who only care about themselves and their money.
1b. Going back to 1997 is much better, quicker, and safer, than changing the minds of politicians and those with the money to help build a replacement.<
Even if that was the case they would be able to fix it because they had already advanced the technology that the Ghost gave them back in 1997. Sae Ha said upon arriving the first time in 1997 and saw her typing the code in the pc that they didn't use anymore this software. And the manager in the lab ( that one that was killed ) said the same. That they had advanced the technology in between. So it wasn't like they didn't have the means to fix the Grid and at the end of the day they didn't have a reason to update that much that technology as the solar flare didn't change. The Grid was there to protect them from the same thing probably a collapse of the Earth's magnetic shield.
> 2. They are advance in their science and technology knowledge that they can not understand how old science and technology works. This also happens in real life. Good examples are the pyramids in Egypt and Greek Fire. We still do not understand how the pyramids at Giza, and the Greek Fire were built/made. We are too advance in our S&T that we can't unlock the secrets of a "primitive" civilization.<
In less than a century...?
> If another time traveler was the source of the first iteration of the Grid, and then s/he fixed it, then yes, there is no reason for that time traveller--or any time traveller for that matter--to go back to 1997. If no time traveller go back to 1997, then the Grid will not be installed. This is called a grandfather paradox. To prevent a grandfather paradox, the writer needs to make a reason for time travellers to go back to 1997 and install the Grid.<
That is exactly my point. The story line falls in the grandfather paradox. The writer hasn't shown that damn reason yet and the disappearance of the Ghost made the things more complicated, (for him... not for us lol).
> That reason is, again just a theory, the Grid failed sometime between 2021 and 2091 and it is irreparable. By 2091, they have a reason to send someone back in 1997 to install the Grid (possibly a better version). But it is always failing between 2021 and 2091, so once again, by 2091 a time traveler is sent back to 1997. A constant loop, and it is the only way to 2091 and the Ghost to exist.
I've wrote it on my previous comment. Even if that is the case the Ghost didn't have any reason to travel that back in time to reinstall the primitive version of the Grid. They had already taken this technology, used it and advanced it.
It would have been more effective if she traveled a year or some days before the collapse of the Grid to ( sudo apt-get ha ha ha ) update upgrade their software to prevent the collapse.
> As I've explained, the Ghost did not come from the "no grid" reality. In episode 7, she disappeared when she failed to install the grid.
And she definitely didn't come from a possible collapse of the Grid as you assumed that it happened between 2021 and 2091. The/any failure to install the Grid and pass the information to the 1997 scientists for further development, means that she couldn't be born in 2049 which means that she or her family were impacted from the failure of the first installation and not from a collapse of the Grid that might have happened afterwards. She was born way to late to say it otherwise.
> The only possible explanation currently is the writer is also using the fictional "time bubble" theory.
> a. In episode 7, she disappeared after she was distracted. Meaning, there is only a fix time window to install the Grid.<
No this can't be the case as I explained above. She was born way to late. The failure to install the Grid and her followed disappearance means that she or her parents were affected by the solar flare. She disappeared because she wasn't born because her parents were killed or became sterilized due to radiation.
> b. In the earlier episodes, she was caught in CCTVs in various laboratories around the world, installing the Grid. They figured out that all her appearances in the CCTV were on the exact same time. This supports the possibility that there is only a fix window to install the Grid.<
Why? Any time prior to the collapse of the Earth's magnetic field would have been just fine. She could travel at any time she wanted with the device.
> So, when she got distracted by the emotional outburst of SH, she failed to install the grid in that "time bubble" (the fix time window). By failing, her "grid" reality" disappeared because she doesn't exist in the "no grid" reality.
I think what you are asking is: if she does not exist in the "no grid" reality, then how come SH still have a time travel device?<
That among other things but what I'm saying is that if she doesn't exist in the " no grid " reality then she can't go back in time to give them the Grid. But she does exist in the "no grid" time line, and that is her motive to go back to give them the Grid and when she fails to do so she just disappears! This doesn't make sense because it is certain that she does exist in the "no Grid " reality.
> ==I did not explain that in detail in my original post. Here are the possible reasons why:
> 1. In fiction, it is a common trope that a time travel device (a portable one usually), once invented will always exist no matter if the cause of its creation was stopped.
> 2. Another common trope is, when non-living things are carried through time, even if the person who brought it was erased from reality, since it is a non-living thing, it will stay where it is. Only the living things (the time traveler in this case) will disappear. If you combine #1 and #2, then it's a very solid reason why SH still have the portable time travel device even after the Ghost disappeared.<
I don't think that this works this way because in order for SH to get the device she should exist in the first place in the "no Grid" world. But the writer showed us in this episode that she doesn't because when she failed to install the Grid she just disappeared. If she doesn't exist in destroyed world she can't go back in the past to give him the device.
> 3. Another trope, though not popular, the time travel device still exist because in the "no grid" reality, the device also exist. It was probably invented and created in 2090s. It is even possible it was created in 2424 (it does not matter when it was invented). As long as time travel is possible, the portable device will exist. It does not matter how SH acquired it as long as the device was still invented. This prevents a time paradox. <
I 've mentioned that in my previous comment. The device didn't came from the non destroyed world, by the time that the Ghost lady manage to install the Grid once. From this point and on they had the technology to save the world. The Ghost lady had no reason to travel back to teach them how to operate the Grid. But on the other hand she doesn't exist in the destroyed world either in order to have the motive to use the device and go back to teach them how to make the Grid. That is the paradox no 2.
Brace for finale impact!! ha ha haaaaaaaa