Strange Little Heart

Sorry, meant to post to the main poster, accidentally responded to the response.

I can't speak for all of us, but for me personally I have no interest in seeing Way with Babe. I'd love for him to get his own separate storyline so we can see more of his character outside of just his feelings for Babe.

As for Charlie, I have consistently stated that I don't dislike his character. I am only frustrated by the way he's written, and the fact that we can't know if this is his real personality or if these are his real feelings. I think I'll like Babe/Charlie much more once all of their cards are on the table and we know for certain where both characters actually stand with each other.

I don't love the narrative that anyone who tries to look at a complex character like Way and maybe see something worth exploring in him automatically is a hater who despises Charlie/Babe or the character of Charlie. I'm not saying those people don't exist, but you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

Liking Way does not equal hating Charlie/Babe. That's all I'm saying.

And I think it's possible to criticize certain elements of the writing without being labeled as a hater.

Just my two cents. I enjoy that everyone has a bit of a different take on this show. It makes the discussion board fun for lively debate. I just don't want to see this discussion board descend into fan camps attacking back and forth. I'm fresh off the Only Friends boards. And that shit got exhausting, really quick.

If that's the intention that they are attempting to get across, then they are failing to write it that way. Because the way they framed the scenes in the third episode sure seemed to me like they were trying to elicit sympathy for the character of Charlie. The narrative, the way the show framed the situation, they chose to linger on those long shots of Charlie looking hurt and confused as to why Babe was pushing him away. Those scenes didn't read to me like Charlie was a character that they are leaving purposefully ambiguous to the audience. That was obvious in the way fans of the pairing reacted to the episode. Their guttural reaction was to be upset with Way's character for interfering with Charlie & Babe. In fact, almost everyone seemed to universally forget that Charlie was an ambiguous character at all. Why? Because, at least in that episode, they randomly stopped writing him that way. It's almost like they can't decide which direction to fully commit to. One moment they will clearly show his dual persona, they'll show him drop in and out of his affected character when he is and isn't around Babe, and then the next they'll pretend like the fake persona is actually who Charlie is, and there's no question to be had about his motives. It's like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too to please everyone, but in the end it'll end up pleasing even less people. Everyone interprets things differently, so it's really a choose your own adventure. I can only speak for my own perspective. For me, personally. The writing for Charlie's character has been incredibly inconsistent, and it's made the character hard to care about, or even be intrigued by.

I actually agree that I feel like Pooh is getting a lot of unfair flack. To me the issues with Charlie's character are all due to the writing and are not the actor's fault. I want to reserve judgement to see if the issues I have with the character and with the pairing are relieved once we learn Charlie's true motives. I think once we get a better picture of who Charlie really is as a character, it will clear up a lot of the issues, that at the very least I have about the character. I can't speak for others, but that's my personal take on it.

I agree that this is what they were going for. For me personally, however. It doesn't work. There are ways to make a story full of mystery and intrigue work, but when you immediately throw a couple at us that we are expected to care about and root for, but we have absolutely no character insight into one half of the couple, no idea who they really are or what they want, it kind of makes investing in that relationship incredibly difficult. At least, that's how I feel from my perspective. I feel that a lot of people are having some trouble relating to Charlie's character, and I feel like the actor who plays him is getting a lot of unfair flack for the character, when I think the failure is at a narrative level and not the actor's fault. I just hope they get to Charlie's motives soon, because I feel like once that narrative block is removed, it may improve some of the disconnect some people have been feeling with the Babe/Charlie pairing.

I wonder if this story would've been better served if we were told it from Charlie's perspective. I know they were trying to make Charlie all mysterious and "interesting" but by shrouding his true self, his character has become completely alienating to the audience. I feel like if we were introduced to Charlie first, and we knew his motivations as to why he was going in to deceive Babe ahead of time, it would make his character much more clear.

I like to look at the show Not Me as a great comparison. Imagine the plot of Not Me started with White just showing up at the garage. We don't get any of the preamble or backstory about White or Black. We don't know what happened to Black. We only know that "Black" has returned after some time away and is not acting like the Black people used to know. It makes the storyline a mess, doesn't it? In this scenario, we don't know who White really is or what his true personality is, we don't know what Black is really like, so we have no way to compare how they're different, and the entire narrative falls apart completely.

That's what these writers did with Charlie. They placed us in the middle of his narrative with absolutely no background or understanding of who he is as a character or why he's motivated to do what he's doing and they just expect us to care about him....why, because he's hot? In that hypothetical Not Me scenario, the plot becomes a mess. I don't even think Gun could save a narrative that muddy. And no offense to Pooh, but he's not yet 1/10th of the actor that Gun is. So how can anyone expect Pooh to rise above what he's been given to play?

Unfortunately, whoever wrote this plot decided to trade character based storytelling for cheap intrigue, and the story suffers as a result.

But that's the thing. The cuteness is a front. It's not Charlie's actual personality. I think that is the struggle I'm having. Everything we've seen of Charlie is just a front he's put on to try and entice Babe. And because of this, at least to me, nothing between them feels genuine. I kind of wish he was just a straightforward naive character too. Because then at least we would understand where he was coming from. Thank you for your response.

This is an open call:

I am genuinely asking any and all Charlie stans to please explain to me what they find compelling about his character. This is not a hate post or a troll. I am genuinely struggling to find anything interesting about his character, and I'm seeking insight from those that like him.

Thank you so much.

P.S. You can't just say it's because he's hot.

I think they thought that Charlie sneaking around would making him more interesting than the typical BL naive, cutsey protaganist. But whoops, they forgot to give him an actual personality. Everything we know about Charlie is a put on fake persona, and we have no insight into his real feelings or motivations about anything. And then Babe likes him because....reasons? And somehow they think this is the way to build an interesting and successful romance.

I need them to spend a few minutes of the episodes focusing on some of these potential side couples now. Because I truly can't with Babe and Charlie. There's just nothing there.

Ah, finally someone who likes Charlie. I wanted to ask for purely anthropological reasons why Charlie is you're favorite character. Genuinely no hate at all, I'm just having a hard time connecting with his character personally, so I really want some insight into what people find appealing from his character to help me better understand his appeal.

No. Charlie and Babe are absolutely criminally boring together. And that is solely because of the writing. They literally just thought- oh we can just pair two hot people together and the rest will just take care of itself.

This is how I imagine things went in the writing room:

Writer #1 : Should we... maybe give Charlie a personality? Or make him likeable in some kind of way?
Writer #2: What? No. He needs to be mysterious and impossible to read.
Writer #1: But shouldn't we, I don't know, make it clear why Charlie is doing what he's doing, or maybe at least express clearly that he is developing genuine feelings for Babe?
Writer #2: What are you talking about? They had a hot sexy scene literally two seconds after meeting, what more kind of connection do you want?
Writer #1: Then shouldn't we at least make it clear what Babe sees in Charlie, to justify why he's willing to completely overturn his lifestyle, team and personality for him?
Writer #2: I already told you. They had a sexy scene when they first met and Charlie doesn't smell bad. What else do you need?
Writer #1: Character motivation? Genuine interaction? Evidence of human emotion of any kind? Any kind of likeable personality trait?
Writer #2: How the hell did you even get in here? Pavel is hot. Pooh is hot. The story writes itself
Writer #1 .....

I think I'm technically a member of this club, but I don't have fun title. How sad. I guess I'll self appoint myself as the Secretary.

P.S. Hating Way is bad for the skin. Proven fact. Also, hating Way is not a personality trait. Also, hating on Way doesn't make Charlie an interesting character.

Signed, The Secretary of the Way Apologist Club (As decided by me. Just now.)

Does the show want me to feel sorry for Charlie at this point? Because I don't.
Babe is the only one getting manipulated, and he's getting manipulated from ALL sides.
I think Charlie is such a frustrating character, because we still don't know anything about what his genuine feelings are. Does he like Babe? I have no idea. Is he going to betray Babe? I have no idea.
How could I possibly feel any sympathy for a character that has shown no real feelings for literally ANYTHING. Charlie has no personality. I don't even know who this character actually is. I do think Pooh is the weakest actor on this series, only because he is inexperienced, but all of the problems with Charlie are NOT his fault. Charlie is a bad character. He is specifically designed to be shrouded in mystery, but the show has failed to give me any reason to give a fuck about what happens to him, because I still don't know what he actually wants. Hoping to get any kind of development for this character soon, because I'm not going to root for a love story just because the show tells me I'm supposed to.

SHOW me why Charlie and Babe are supposed to be together. SHOW me what about Charlie makes him special to Babe. SHOW me why, despite having ulterior motives, Charlie falls for Babe. Don't TELL me. SHOW me. Or I won't care.

That's all. Enjoying the show. A little frustrated at times by the writing, but overall I'm enjoying it.

Honestly, I think this is what's causing the lack of chemistry to me. I kept wondering why Pavel and Pooh have great chemistry and Babe and Charlie do not, and I think it's because the chemistry is getting lost in the bland acting.

I'm guessing Charlie has used his to mask his scent. It's the only way it makes sense that he's the ONLY alpha who doesn't have a strong scent. I actually hope this is true. Because Charlie purposefully masking his scent to entice Babe is far more interesting to me than him just being randomly special for no fucking reason.

It's cute. Enjoyed it more than I thought I would. You can always trust that the chemistry is chemistrying with OffGun. I do absolutely love the side couple so far. Neo is a damn chameleon, he can play any kind of role. And I'm really enjoying Aungpao as Dynamite. I have a feeling those two will be great fun.

Honestly, anyone saying this is the worst acting they've seen in a BL has not watched the true dreck of the genre. There is much, much worse.

Fantastic. Here is my resume: I've seen every single episode of both Oxygen and Something in My Room. Multiple times.

Are there any open positions in this club? Because I would also like to join.

I mean, Pon is 8 years older than Pooh and we're meant to buy that they're the same age. We're also all supposed to bend the belief that Sailub is so much older than Nut who is the same age as he is. I think I would rather trade for Nut's experience for a role like Charlie, even if it made the ages a little less accurate.