gofornikki

I think the show has definitely gotten better at spreading the story around, it's starting to feel like the ensemble drama they always pretended it was. I still just don't give a shit about Babe and Charlie, their story is the least interesting to me, but at least this season its not 80% of every episode. The plot, although insane feels much more focused and coherent than last season too. If anything, weirdly, the plot with charlie, babe and willy almost feels like a secondary b plot, because everything else is tied to the mystery shenanigans of the lab etc. But that's fine, I get they needed some way to keep the racing element tied into the show, so whatever. We'll see if it descends into garbage, but so far I am tentitively enjoying myself.

Honestly? Leaning all the way into the unhinged parts of this show is the best thing they could've done for season 2. I'm definitely interested to see where everything goes. Still a bit ambivalent about CharlieBabe though, they don't piss me off the way they did in season 1, but I just don't really care about them when they're together. But there's plenty of intrigue candy to keep me hanging for now.

Too true, lol. Though it's funny- the hate train here is for someone who is perceived to be the reddest red flag whereas the Secret Relationships chat has people randomly hating on the only green flag character to justify their liking of a toxic and unhealthy pairing. People are weird.

Okay...some of the hate on the character of Bua is getting downright weird. People are acting like he's as bad as some of the psychos on Secret Relationships or something when he's just an insecure kid. Like? What did he do that's so horribly monsterous and unforgiveable for people to say he deserves no kind of sympathy whatsoever? What did he do that was so much worse than any of the other characters on the show? I appreciate that all of the characters on this show are a bit unstable and messy, but to single out one character and decide he's the worst of all of them based on literally nothing is so weird to me. Just my opinion, but geez.

You know the best part about season 2? The obnoxious book readers can't descend with a bunch of awful spoilers and ruin it. We're all in the same boat floating down the River Styx now.

I completely agree. This isn't a love story, this is an unrequited love story with a tragic ending. The Babe and Way story is the only arc in this show that feels complete. From inception to climax to resolution it had appropriate stakes, character development and emotional beats. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you did a re-edit of this series that only followed this plot thread, this would be a well-paced comprehensive series. The problem is that this show had so much other unnecessary bullshit in it. You take this plot and center it around the complex triangle of Babe/Charlie/Way, you give Babe/Charlie enough space to develop so that their love story is believable, and this story is easily over an 8.0. Missed opportunity.

Ever heard the phrase the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference?

How about there's a thin line between love and hate?

Anyone who truly did not have any desire to continue to watch this series would not waste their life continually commenting about each episode.

The vocal disappointment you see from people in this comment section is from a place of deep love and passion for the series. People are reacting the way they are because they care about the series enough to be disappointed by the fact that it continues to fall short of their expectations. They come back because they keep hoping that they'll receive even the tiniest sliver of the show they were sold and promised by its creators.

And what gives you, or anyone else the right to be the arbiter of what people watch, how they watch it and the opinions they have about it? A fandom is not a monolith and people can watch a show however they'd like. And they can discuss whatever the hell they want to discuss in a DISCUSSION BOARD about the series. As long as the commentary is related to the series at hand, I don't see what the problem is.

The real question is, why do other people's opinion about this series bother you so much?

I agree with most of what you're saying, actually.

I've been on record of insisting that the character of Charlie is badly written. He was already a bland insert protagonist in the novel, and then he was handed to three hacks who further butchered his character into a muddled mess of unclear motivations and questionable emotional responses. No one could have played Charlie and made him a compelling character.

I don't think Pooh's the best actor yet, but he's also not the worst I've seen. I'd actually blame his age over his greenness, which is a change that I felt after seeing another rookie actor, Babe, on the Sign who is an acting natural. Pooh is 20 years old. He has a long career ahead of him, and we have yet to see how he'd be in the hands of talented writers. I'll wait until his next project to make an assertion about his acting ability.

I also agree that Nut was the only person of these 12 that could successfully play Way. Nut has this inane ability to imbue sympathy and charisma in a character that has no business having either. I don't think you'd see the same character support if anyone else played that role, and that's not me being some crazed Supanut stan, I just think he is the best actor for playing subtle emotional nuance which is absolutely necessary for the character of Way to work.

I think all of these actors were tragically wasted on this series, and I would like to see all of them in their future projects. Hopefully with better writing than what they were served here.

The further into this show I get, the more I am convinced that a lot of these actor pair ups were done as a marketing tactic. I think at best the only side couple that gains any traction is Alan and Jeff. And at this point, their romance will be just as poorly written as Charlie and Babe's has been, with absolutely no build up or slow burn. But all of the others, I am increasingly convinced we will get absolutely no development on. Way and Pete is a loose maybe. They might give North and Sonic a five minute, and they're together now, reveal. But that's it. I can't fathom how Winner/Dean or Kenta/Kim are going to happen in a way that makes any sense. And I'll be honest, I'd be kind of annoyed if they hit pause on the main story of the series to randomly focus on trying to build up these side couples that add nothing to the overall story. And that's coming from someone that's no real fan of the main couple. They need to focus on the story itself, because it's a mess. There's no time to believably develop six different romantic plotlines. It's just not feasible.

Me too, actually. Even though I've been very vocal in my intense disinterest in Charlie and Babe as a couple, I find Pavel and Pooh to be incredibly charming. I'd like to see what they could be with good writers behind them.

That episode was all over the place.

This was the episode that confirmed for me that there are way too many characters in this show for any of them to get a decent arc and storyline. North and Sonic are cute, but what do they add to the overall storyline? Why are we spending so much time focusing on characters like Winner and Kim that will have no purpose to the overall plot? They should have stripped this down to just Babe, Charlie, Alan, Jeff, Way and Pete getting focus. They're the ones that are tied to the actual plot and if we stripped everything back, maybe we'd get more than five minutes an episode of character development for these characters. I'm not saying the side characters needed to disappear completely, but not every side character needs their own personal arc. There's too much to get to and not enough time to dwell on these side affairs.

I really don't know why the show is being purposefully obtuse about Way having switched to Tony's side, when everyone and their mother can already deduce this fact. What was the point of not showing his face in that scene with Tony, when we literally just had the scene with Pete where Way all but said, yeah I'm evil now, deal with it? It's like the show is trying to go for a surprise reveal but it's so pathetically obvious that at this point, the only reveal would be if they did a complete 180 and had the traitor be anyone else.

I liked getting a little bit more of Alan and Jeff, but I have a feeling that they are not going to have an actual romantic arc. I have the same feeling about Way and Pete. Actually that's how I feel about every character in this show that isn't Babe and Charlie.

It's astonishing that even though the plot has ramped up, the action is at an all time high, and the tension is palpable, that they still found time in all the chaos to shove a completely boring and pointless cutesy romantic scene with Babe and Charlie into the episode. As usual, they're over here in their own pointless world while the plot is happening around them. I actually enjoyed the scenes earlier in the episode, when they randomly decided to become the Scooby Doo gang and investigate Kim's disappearance, if for no other reason then it actually gave Babe and Charlie something to do that was other to their boring romance, and for once it felt like they had rejoined the plot.

But as this show goes on, it's becoming more and more disjointed, and I don't know if these writers are going to stick the landing. It's hard to say, but this is the first episode of the series so far that didn't leave me with a strong and desperate urge to immediately see the next one. I really hope that this all pulls together, and that they can end this series on a high. But I don't have much faith.

If Charlie and Babe are the characters that you relate to, then I completely respect that you view the show through a different lens then I do. That's natural, people respond to different things because people are all different.

I agree that Pavel is talented, but less talented to me are the writers. They give Babe glimpses of humanity, but they never let them fully play out to their emotional throughline. I was invested in Babe in the last episode because his emotions were palpable. But the show completely removed all of that emotional weight in the scene he shared with Charlie. There is no emotional exchange to make the characters more defined or to strengthen the bond of Charlie and Babe. It's as if all of the turmoil Babe was feeling previously is completely erased because the show is too afraid to let Charlie and Babe be anything other than perfect at all times.

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 'Mary Sue' but that's how these writers are writing these characters. Despite doing things that seem flawed to the viewer- such as everything Charlie has been doing up to this point- in the show, they are heralded and celebrated as if they are perfect and good people with only the best intentions. But the show has failed to actually show that these things are true, so what I as a viewer am left with, is cognitive dissonance. The show is telling me that Babe and Charlie are awesome and perfect, but I don't believe it because that's not what they're showing me.

If you do believe it, that's fine. Like I said, all people are different. I just look at the show through a different lens then you do, and clearly that isn't going to change any time soon, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think the shift with the fans (if you can even call them fans, crazy people would be more accurate) doesn't happen until a person has a popular pairing and then tries to move on, once that coupling is no longer viable.

Gawin never had a set pairing, so he can move from partner to partner without too much push back. The same used to be true of First, before he paired off with Khao. But now I feel like, if First ever went back to changing partners, he'd receive hate now as well.

It's so tragic to me when you have actors like Earth, literally having to go online and apologize for daring to star in a show opposite anyone besides Santa. Sometimes actors pursue different projects, or want different things out of their careers and there shouldn't be any stigma in that. It's all just very toxic and sad.

I'm with you. In general I find the whole, having to sell this fantasy that we're a couple even though we really aren't thing is terribly cringe and attracts the creepiest form of stalker fans. I understand that it's all a marketing gimmick, but hey, you can't spell gimmick without ick, which is what that whole side of the industry gives me.

For me, I prefer the couplings when you can feel a genuine trust and friendship between them, without them feeling the need to be sexualized all of the time. I think that's why pairings like First and Khao, Earth and Mix and Off and Gun have always been my favorites, because they feel like close friends who enjoy working together, versus two hot people who were forced together by business men.

The thing that gets me is that people assume that in order to enjoy the character, you must have already been a fan of the actor and therefore are just an apologist. But to me, Way has been the only character whose feelings have been given any kind of weight. They come close with Babe, but any emotional stakes disappear completely when it comes to his relationship with Charlie, and since that is all the show focuses on, none of his emotional input lands the way it should. I actually felt for Babe during the last episode, when he felt hurt and betrayed. That was the first time Babe felt like a human to me. And then, once he and Charlie shared a scene, all of that went away and once again Babe behaved with the weirdest motivations that no actual human could really relate to. And so, we're back once again to Way being the only relatable character for me.

At this point, they'd have to turn Way into a legitimate monster for me to be turned off of his character.

For me it's because his character is the only one that they've given any kind of relatable emotional weight to at all. The show refuses to give any kind of emotional depth to the relationship between Charlie and Babe, and so to me, the only character I can really feel anything from is Way, which makes me root for him, despite his status as a doomed secondary character.

I know, the same thing has been happening to Fluke as well. It's so stupid to me that there is this stigma attached to something as completely normal as changing scene partners. I wish this would become more normalized within Thai BL culture so that ridiculous things like that would stop happening, and also so people stop being bullied and villainized just for deciding to try other things or broaden their horizons. BL fans can be toxic, I swear.

I wasn't discrediting the chemistry that Billy and Seng had, I enjoyed them in their projects. The point was more toward the idea that if they were still in their active coupling, we would have never gotten the scenes we have now between Billy and Babe. No shade on any of the actors, more a critique on the nature of Thai BL marketing.

This show to me is the biggest testament to the idea that Thai BL actors should be allowed to split off and not remain in the same coupling forever. Just imagine if 'BillySeng' was still a thing, we would have never gotten to see this incredible chemistry between Billy and Babe.

I get why they do it, and it's all a marketing ploy, but it breeds the most disturbingly obsessed fans, not to mention sameness is the death knell of creativity.

I just wish we could get these occasional change ups without some dramatic decoupling, or one of the actors leaving the industry altogether. It should be a completely normal thing for actors to change acting partners. And if only that was more normalized, we would get to see so many more amazing chemistry match ups.

Anyways, loving this show. I don't know why this is what I was thinking about, but for some reason it was.

All the show needed to do to make this work is to have Charlie actually SAY any of this. All we're given on the show is that Charlie lied to Babe and secretly stole his power without his knowledge or consent. It doesn't matter if he had good intentions, it was still a lie and a betrayal. And when he had the opportunity to fully come clean and explain his intentions, we don't get any of that. We don't get an explanation of trying to keep Babe safe. We don't even get so much as contrition from Charlie. Instead we get a half assed and manipulative promise to kill himself to give Babe his powers back. And then Babe just forgives him. The end. No further understanding of Charlie's character. No emotional growth between Charlie and Babe. Just a hop and a skip to a car sex scene as if nothing ever happened.