jpny01

I'm giving it a try too. Regarding objectification, 99.9% of time, it's just "normal" male sexuality at play - it's not like men don't objectify each other, and usually don't mind or even seek being objectified, which is a frequent disconnect because women are less likely to appreciate it, but it' not like they don't like it at all.

I don't argue that there are issues of violence involved that are far more chronic for women and that the issue is overall more concerning or disturbing in that case.

I'm really just calling out the hypocrisy. If you're truly open-minded, you have to consider whether or not you accept consensual behavior - even if you are not 100% comfortable with it. If stepbrothers want to get together, what is the objection? In this case there are some, clearly - the age difference & power dynamic calls into question consent, and Yong Jie's mental state suggests any engagement between them may not be healthy - but I see a lot blanket objections to "incest", which to me isn't much different from homophobia.

I'm also a bit burned out on objections to gay men interacting sexually - that's fetishization. They want to be titillated by cute boys being cute, but somehow if the cute boys want to f#$%, it's prurient and pornographic.

Ah, thanks. I 100% agree. That bothered me more than anything else in this. I'm fine with Yong Jie's character - the script seems to recognize that he's damaged and isn't romanticizing the dark things there, but for a grown-up to beat up a troubled kid and another to gleefully celebrate it was hard to swallow. That's my problem with the two stories - they're not compatible. The Mu Ren/Li Cheng story is a cartoon, but the other one is serious, and mixing them is discordant and trivializes the other storyline.

It is lackluster compared to previous series - it really feels like there was a budget cut - which makes me forgiving of sound and lighting issues, but not directing, cinematography, and editing, which are about talent more than money.

They soundtrack is often dark when the teacher is starting to cross the line, so if the producers don't understand the inappropriateness, at least the composer does! I hope everything resolves well.

I see what you're saying. I guess for me sometimes the backstory is better left backstory than too deeply investigated, although it would maybe have been nice to understand why Hong Seok was in a job he hated - if I were to add more, it would be about him. Lex wasn't really fleshed out as a character either, and we didn't get to see his fate or understand enough about his relationship with Shi On so he came off as a 2D villain, although Lex did a great job and I absolutely hated him!

To me, Hong Seok is deeply sensitive, artistic, and lonely, & too controlled, and is drawn to Shi On, for his free spirit and who calls to what Shi On has buried in himself. Shi On is damaged and also lonely, and seeks a "family" to replace the one he's lost (I assume his mother died - it's not entirely clear). That's why he wanted to be closer to Lex, and his fear of being hurt and abandoned again is so strong.

I think some Filipino (most of the better ones) and Vietnamese (like Nation's Brother) do, and the Thais had I Told Sunset About You. The problem is BL is based on mediocre novels written overwhelmingly by middle-aged women who clearly have never met a gay man (slight exaggeration for dramatic effect) and that are marketed at young women and girls. You've probably noticed how strong objections can be when the formula is strayed from, like all the comments in the vein of "why don't you just go watch PORN if all you care about is sex!"

The storyline in this show that does seem to have an LGBTQ+ focus is the brothers, and many or even most people hate it. People want cute boys being cute to each other, not young men exploring their sexuality through, well, sex.

One of the few physical scenes in any BL that I've seen that rang true was the weird almost-sex scene in ITSAY, which took me back to that age. What teenage boy has a Victorian-era romance that's sealed with a lips lightly touched together at the very end? And how many gay boys have had the experience of pursuing a straight boy until he turns gay (as opposed to being beaten to death), or more commonly, tripped and been caught by the straight boy ending up with their faces too close together and staring at each other until he turns gay? It's all formulaic romance designed to make 14-year old girls squeal.

There's nothing wrong with that, but you don't get to fetishize gay men than then climb onto a high horse and proclaim step-brother stories morally objectionable. That's really not any different from homophobia, because it's taking for granted that a consensual relationship is morally wrong. (Obviously a sibling relationship can be morally wrong, but like any interaction, each should be evaluated individually. A 25 year old pursuing a 15-year old is obviously problematic, but if two 17 year olds are thrown together by their parents marrying, what possible objection could anyone have to their relationship?)

I'm with you on the fujoshi culture thing, but I think in this case Mei Fang recognized that the two guys are into each other and closeted (and she's correct), rather than like in some other series where the fujoshi randomly focuses on two straight guys and tries to turn them gay. In any case, it's a comic relief storyline so it doesn't bother me as much as it might. The kid isn't psychopathic, he's disturbed and has suffered trauma in his life. If the storyline is well handled it can be successful. I'm not at all sure that will happen - and I'm not sure it's even possible with two stories that so violently clash in mood, but it interests me enough to stick with it.

I agree and disagree. I think it's hypocritical for people who spend most of their leisure time in a genre that fetishizes gay men (as if that's better than make objectification of women) to get all huffy about step brother romances , which if fully consensual should not be objectionable. What's the difference between that and homophobia? Homophobes think it's self-evident that same-sex relationships are wrong, so why is it self-evident that sibling relationships are inherently wrong (obviously they can be, as power dynamics can easily make consent questionable - or if full siblings procreate...)?

However, one storyline in this series is a cartoon, and the other is dark and serious, and I'm not sure how you combine those without trivializing mental health issues. We've already gotten a grown man beating up an obviously disturbed kid with no consequences and with the obvious appreciation of another grown man, which is a little jarring. How do you switch between a clown who's breaking the Fourth Wall and the brothers storyline? I'm not sure they'll pull it off in a way that isn't frustrating and upsetting. But I'm happy to wait and see - I didn't like last weeks eps, but I did enjoys today's.

I like the brother storyline. He did try to apologize, but Li Cheng challenged him to a duel before he got a chance. I may end up hating how the brother storyline is resolved, but I have no problem with complex characters and situations. Li Cheng keeps looking at the camera because that half of the show is a live-action cartoon, so he's violating the "Fourth Wall". It was a little jarring because it should either have been there from the beginning or not at all - it's weird to introduce it at this late point, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's dropped moving forward.

I hated that plotline last ep - it doesn't bother me in this one, but I'm not sure how they'll juggle the dark and serious storyline with the completely ridiculous one. I think there's a real danger of trivializing mental health issues unless they keep the storylines completely separate, in which case, why have both in the first place?

I'm not sure how it's toxic, but there is plenty of cliche. The step-brother has issues, for sure, but it's too early to tell how this will be handled. It could either be compelling drama or make me want to toss break my laptop over the writer's head - History has moved me both ways from series to series.

I have to give that some thought. The cartoon plot is a bit repetitive, and it will quickly get tiresome if it doesn't go somewhere soon, but the stepbrother plot doesn't strike me that way at all - I don't have any idea where that will go at this point, unlike the other story which every one of us here can probably plot out episode by episode and I'd bet all of us would be 100% accurate.

Who is Songjae? If that's the troubled step-brother he's my favorite character. I want to see what happens to him. But I think you're right that the rather extreme cartoonish storyline is going to start clashing unpleasantly with the serious and rather dark brothers storyline. It could be done, but it would have to focus heavily on the brothers with a background cartoon for comic relief. The boxing scene was a a bit of a jarring overlap, especially since there were no apparent consequences of a grown man beating up an obviously troubled boy. Although the boy looks like he has about a 20-pound advantage in muscle mass, but whatever.

I know that everyone deals with their sexuality individually and at different paces, but to me the chances of two wedding planners in their mid-20s both being that confused about their sexuality approaches 0% likelihood. Once I accepted them as cartoons it stopped bothering me.

I was bothered that last week was 95% about a man pursuing a woman in a BL, but this week I enjoyed it. I don't find the step brother cringe af - he's a complex and maladjusted person in a complicated situation - it's interesting to me. I actually find the clown couple more cringeworthy, but I've gotten used to them and accepted they're cartoon characters so it doesn't bother me anymore.

I feel the same way, although I'm confused by the constant mention that Muren is hot or handsome - I think he's aggressively unattractive, both physically and in personality, but Li Cheng is clownishly cute. And nice to look at.

What do you mean by "basic instinct mess"? (I don't want to have to go back and watch the film!) It was strange, but I'm not sure it was unnecessary - it did cast a lot of light on the relationship between the brothers.

Totally agree about fetishizing gay men - it's disturbing to me, and I'm not sure how it's better than men objectifying women. It seems worse to me as a gay man, because if I can't rely on women to support me, who do I turn to?

But in this case I don't think there's any danger of the plan actually working, is there? Mei Fang correctly sensed that the two boys like each other and is encouraging it, and I think we can all see how it will end up.

And they haven't romanticized the stalking, fortunately - it's clear he's psychologically maladjusted and the situation is dangerous.

But I do agree this whole series feels dated - but at least it's better acted and produced than most of the rest of the dated dreck that's out there these days.

There's really nothing realistic about that storyline - I think it's meant to be a live-action cartoon, so I just roll with it.

I'm not sure any of the previous stories were particularly nuanced, but some of them were definitely better written - although half of this doesn't pretend to be anything but a live-action cartoon, 4th wall breaking and all. The other half is plenty nuanced, isn't it? It might not be to some people's tastes, but it's definitely complex. I'm curious to see where it will go.

It isn't necessarily packed with harmful tropes - the cartoon half isn't likely to harm anyone, because there's no chance Mei Fang is ever going to be hurt by the situation, and she's painted as a strong person who is not going to let herself be victimized. The worst thing that can happen to her is she can get annoyed.

I don't see any particular moral objection to the "incest" - they're not blood relations and can't reproduce anyway. Remember that to a lot of people, it's self-evident that any gay relationship is morally wrong. To me, any consensual relationship is nobody else's business and is perfectly fine if it isn't harming anyone. In this case, it's questionable whether or not the situation is harmful, and due to the large age difference I have consent questions, so it's not morally black and white to me, unlike the Thai show Brothers, where you have to squint awfully hard to find a problem with the relationship. I may very well be disgusted at how they resolve this, but I'll wait and see.

Likewise, if Mei Fang falls in love with Li Cheng and turns into a clingy psycho I'll light something on fire.

Really? I didn't like last week's episodes, but this won me over - I love Xing Si/Yong Jie storyline and I was happy the other pair were in a background as comic relief. Before I was put off by almost the entire ep being about a man pursuing a woman, but now that story has shifted into BL territory. I still don't buy that two men in their mid 20s who are WEDDING PLANNERS could be that clueless about their sexuality, but they're both so clueless in general it nearly works.

I'm not judging or criticizing, but I'm genuinely puzzled why stepbrother storylines bother people so much. They can't produce mutant children or anything, and in this case its the younger one pursuing the older one. If it were the other way around there would be a consent problem due to the power relationship, but here it's just weird rather than disturbing (to me). And the vaguely forbidden aspect makes it kind of hot to me, plus their interaction is so sweet.