lilili

I have SO MANY THOUGHTS about this conversation but here's my incoherent brain dump:

- 2001 MG/2005 MG/2010 BoF are all very sincere. They are serving the content to you straight with all of the terrible problematic elements intact. And the core story is how you have this monstrous male lead with what I would describe as a devouring love for the female lead. You never know if his love will obliterate her. There's numerous points of the story where the ML represents an actual existential threat, as in she could be killed or raped because of him. And the only reason he doesn't consume her is because she's so strong. So as you're watching you're living in this tension of experiencing that love along with FL but also the anxiety of wondering whether you can survive this love.

- F4 Thailand is an extremely self aware version of the story. The writers clearly understand what makes the previous versions iconic but also understand that you simply can't serve this story straight in the year of our lord 2022. So they've created this very self aware, smart, nuanced story with real character development and meta commentary on the story itself, on social stratification (which may be the most important story of the present day; see also Squid Game), on the abuse of power, etc. Which is all wonderful for someone like me but once you introduce that self awareness you automatically lose that deep sincerity that informs the previous versions. Which also automatically means you've dialed down the intense emotion of the previous versions. You aren't vicariously having that feeling of a devouring overpowering overwhelming love that threatens your very existence but that you can't resist.

I have watched all the versions and I find this narrative addictive, but I've never been able to reconcile myself to the core romance because of how jaw droppingly violent and scary the male lead is. But with F4T I'm all in on the ship. I absolutely love them together and I am rooting for them. But I also get why the people who love the previous versions would be either ambivalent or actively disliking this version.

In the Korean version it's the model who's the brother of the student in the first episode who almost jumps off the roof. He lures Jan Di into a warehouse and then Jun Pyo has to show up and get beaten and Jan Di throws herself on top of him but then the rest of the F4 show up to kick ass. There's a similar scene in 2001 Meteor Garden only it's a work friend of Shan Cai's who sets it up and the F4 don't save the day.

I'm probably confusing scenes but are we getting to where the FL throws herself on top of the ML and takes a hit for him? Because I freakin' love that.

In all the other versions the female lead gets kidnapped by victims of the male lead's bullying and he has to endure a beating without fighting back in order to get her out without her getting hurt.

I'm here for it. I love that scene in every version. #HeHasItComing but also what the FL does in every version ahhhhhhhhh

Tsukasa was okay with Makino being raped and he never expresses remorse or apologizes for it. I went and looked for the dialogue and the way it goes is Akira says "Rape is bad Tsukasa-kun" and he responds "No! Let them have it their way!" That was the point of no return for me, I absolutely could not accept him as a romantic male lead after that.

I think you're missing something important. The original story is that brand of pop culture that taps straight into the id with no irony, kind of like Twilight. HYD is about sex and violence and the eroticization of male anger. And the people who are hooked on it want that straight blast of emotion and to feel the overwhelming power of a devouring love. Once you become self aware about the story, that overpowering experience of emotion is automatically lessened to some extent. I personally love the self awareness and dissecting the narrative and digging into the layers of metaphor and meaning but I also understand why that would actively annoy/upset some people.

I'm also aware that there is absolutely no way to serve this story straight today. For one thing, social stratification is one of the biggest issues present in media today (see Squid Game) so no way you can have a story about abusive rich people that doesn't take a critical look at that. Also social media has really changed the game so the whole social ecosystem that sustains the bullying has to be reexamined. Another thing is the level of violence directed at the female lead in the original is intolerable, especially in a teen drama and thank god for that. I don't want to see Thyme try to sexually assault the FL. I don't want to see her drugged and stripped and photographed. I don't want to see Thyme slap her hard across the face. I don't want her to be slut shamed without comment. If that means some of the raw emotionality of the original is lost, I'm okay with that.

Have you seen the Taiwanese version or read any of the manga? Because hoo boy your partner's head would pop off and go spinning into space.

I do not think the show is preachy...but it is very self aware. And for the people who love other versions which are not self aware and are serving the narrative straight with no examination of what exactly is going on with this story, I can totally see them feeling preached at by this version.

To me the wonder of this adaptation is that they do things like have a meta opening with the lakorn and laughing at the accidental kiss and then have what for me were gut punch emotional moments with Thyme and Gorya at the gate and with Kavin and Kaning when she stands up to him. The writers are examining the narrative and serving you authentic emotional moments at the same time.

ETA: Found a YouTuber who also thinks the show is preachy and tells instead of shows: https://youtu.be/6ifdnJBGoDE. I find this very interesting because I am not experiencing it that way at all but I also recognize that the hand of the writers is very present in this if that makes any sense.

The director says it's a coming of age drama so you're not wrong about that but there's also a lot more going on talking about how people hold and abuse power, how that's tied to social status, how bullying is a structural problem that can't simply be attributed to a few individuals even if they are the F4, what it means to be a strong women (so many strong female characters in this) and a lot more. It's a complex story and that's a big reason I love it. FWIW I think the messages you described from HYD are also present: "It's about being true to yourself, honest with your own feeling, doing what you believe is right, and fights for things that you care about. "

I love this breakdown and agree 100%. I also think that Thyme's behavior after he looks at the 499 baht cost of the meal is beautifully done. He's bewildered but mostly quietly observing what's going on and behaving respectfully toward her family. He's sitting on the floor with them. He's at the head of the table because of his status but he's not purposefully flexing his status at the meal. You do have that moment where he explains why he doesn't need the magic pork and you think he's behaving like an ass but then it morphs into this beautifully sad moment. I just loved how the whole thing was handled and it set up the lovely moment between Thyme and Gorya at the gate.

Literally the only version where I wholeheartedly ship the ML & FL. In other versions I either actively hate the ML (Korean and Japanese versions) or feel conflicted because of how jaw droppingly violent he is (Taiwan)

Thanks for weighing in, I love your entire comment! It's interesting that Kavin can't directly pressure Gorya because Bright is protecting her but also because she's so strong he realizes his BS won't work on her. So he goes after the person he perceives as the weak link but whoops she's not about his BS either. I'm also dying to see how they handle his ex and whether or not he'll have a romance with Kaning (it's not present in all the versions)

So I wanna talk about Kavin as he's written and how Win is playing him because I'm loving what they're doing with the character. At first I wasn't won over because I didn't think Win was giving off player energy but that scene with Kaning and MJ made me realize that Kavin may be the scariest member of F4 because he's the most cold blooded and calculating. When Thyme found out you could feed a family on 500 baht he was shocked but not judgmental. Kavin weaponized the cost of that 4000 baht meal he tried to feed Kaning. He knows exactly how privileged he is and doesn't think twice about using it to bully a tiny schoolgirl (which is why it's such a thrilling moment when Kaning pushes back). Win is playing it really well. He's smooth and superficially pleasant but he's cold in the eyes and it feels like he is capable of some darksided shit. It's very good writing and performing.

First add the actor here: https://kisskh.at/add/person/details

Then go to the Cast and Crew tab on this page, click Add Cast and then scroll to the bottom of the page and search for the actor you added.

Report back, I wanna know what you think

I know that antis are common in Kpop fandom and also with stars like Lee Min Ho but I've never experienced in real time like this before and it's wild. I don't understand why Bright triggers this kind of response.

I am loving the adaptation but I see the point you're making. I think there's a few things going on: one is that the show is only 16 episodes and there's a huge amount of plot from the original story to shove in there so there's not enough time for the kind of showing you're talking about. It also means that there are plot points that have to be hit regardless of whether they make sense (a lot of it makes no sense at all in the original manga and previous adaptations)

Another thing is that the original is so hugely problematic that there's no way to tell the story in the present day without addressing the issues and that will make it feel a little preachy. Specific to the 500 baht scene, I didn't see it as Gorya taking responsibility for reforming Thyme but as Thyme opening his eyes to how ordinary people live. He's the one who has to do the work.

The only bad thing with cutting the fiance short is that in most versions she's an entertaining character who could've been a great wife for the ML...but he had the unshakeable love for the FL. So I've always enjoyed her part of the story a lot.

I have a Twitter group chat going with the people I'll be recording a podcast episode with on F4T in February so they are getting a big dose but they aren't as obsessed as I am. In fact two of them are BoF haterz so I'm super curious about what they'll say about the new version.