lilili

I wrote about this at length but the short version is this is a very self aware version of the story and because it's self aware they can't keep that level of bullying or toxicity in a story aimed at teenagers, no way. I understand why people enjoy that unhealthy dynamic but you just can't do it today. As it is, Gorya has already been beaten multiple times and almost sexually assaulted as a direct result of Thyme's actions, so I think it's still got that sense of serious danger the story needs.

I think it had a slow start because it came out in December and then they had the two week break for NYE but this latest episode blew up the internet. One of my completely boring tweets on it has 1.1K likes and 680 RTs and still climbing, it's wild. And my friends who weren't watching are now catching up and raving about it.

Considering that Hana Yori Dango/Boys Over Flowers basically invented second lead syndrome, I am cackling over how many people are saying GO AWAY REN NO ONE WANTS YOU BACK.

https://youtu.be/ldAWTsgaqBY

This episode made me realize my sexuality is beautiful men bandaging a girl's wounds.

Grr at Hana but Bright's profile in that pic is insane https://twitter.com/_opywpyy_/status/1484491335856189440

It's posted with subs, no waiting

Yes and don't we want to see two screamingly hot men fight over the girl? We deserve

I have SO MANY THOUGHTS about this conversation but here's my incoherent brain dump:

- 2001 MG/2005 MG/2010 BoF are all very sincere. They are serving the content to you straight with all of the terrible problematic elements intact. And the core story is how you have this monstrous male lead with what I would describe as a devouring love for the female lead. You never know if his love will obliterate her. There's numerous points of the story where the ML represents an actual existential threat, as in she could be killed or raped because of him. And the only reason he doesn't consume her is because she's so strong. So as you're watching you're living in this tension of experiencing that love along with FL but also the anxiety of wondering whether you can survive this love.

- F4 Thailand is an extremely self aware version of the story. The writers clearly understand what makes the previous versions iconic but also understand that you simply can't serve this story straight in the year of our lord 2022. So they've created this very self aware, smart, nuanced story with real character development and meta commentary on the story itself, on social stratification (which may be the most important story of the present day; see also Squid Game), on the abuse of power, etc. Which is all wonderful for someone like me but once you introduce that self awareness you automatically lose that deep sincerity that informs the previous versions. Which also automatically means you've dialed down the intense emotion of the previous versions. You aren't vicariously having that feeling of a devouring overpowering overwhelming love that threatens your very existence but that you can't resist.

I have watched all the versions and I find this narrative addictive, but I've never been able to reconcile myself to the core romance because of how jaw droppingly violent and scary the male lead is. But with F4T I'm all in on the ship. I absolutely love them together and I am rooting for them. But I also get why the people who love the previous versions would be either ambivalent or actively disliking this version.

In the Korean version it's the model who's the brother of the student in the first episode who almost jumps off the roof. He lures Jan Di into a warehouse and then Jun Pyo has to show up and get beaten and Jan Di throws herself on top of him but then the rest of the F4 show up to kick ass. There's a similar scene in 2001 Meteor Garden only it's a work friend of Shan Cai's who sets it up and the F4 don't save the day.

I'm probably confusing scenes but are we getting to where the FL throws herself on top of the ML and takes a hit for him? Because I freakin' love that.

In all the other versions the female lead gets kidnapped by victims of the male lead's bullying and he has to endure a beating without fighting back in order to get her out without her getting hurt.

I'm here for it. I love that scene in every version. #HeHasItComing but also what the FL does in every version ahhhhhhhhh

Tsukasa was okay with Makino being raped and he never expresses remorse or apologizes for it. I went and looked for the dialogue and the way it goes is Akira says "Rape is bad Tsukasa-kun" and he responds "No! Let them have it their way!" That was the point of no return for me, I absolutely could not accept him as a romantic male lead after that.

I think you're missing something important. The original story is that brand of pop culture that taps straight into the id with no irony, kind of like Twilight. HYD is about sex and violence and the eroticization of male anger. And the people who are hooked on it want that straight blast of emotion and to feel the overwhelming power of a devouring love. Once you become self aware about the story, that overpowering experience of emotion is automatically lessened to some extent. I personally love the self awareness and dissecting the narrative and digging into the layers of metaphor and meaning but I also understand why that would actively annoy/upset some people.

I'm also aware that there is absolutely no way to serve this story straight today. For one thing, social stratification is one of the biggest issues present in media today (see Squid Game) so no way you can have a story about abusive rich people that doesn't take a critical look at that. Also social media has really changed the game so the whole social ecosystem that sustains the bullying has to be reexamined. Another thing is the level of violence directed at the female lead in the original is intolerable, especially in a teen drama and thank god for that. I don't want to see Thyme try to sexually assault the FL. I don't want to see her drugged and stripped and photographed. I don't want to see Thyme slap her hard across the face. I don't want her to be slut shamed without comment. If that means some of the raw emotionality of the original is lost, I'm okay with that.

Have you seen the Taiwanese version or read any of the manga? Because hoo boy your partner's head would pop off and go spinning into space.

I do not think the show is preachy...but it is very self aware. And for the people who love other versions which are not self aware and are serving the narrative straight with no examination of what exactly is going on with this story, I can totally see them feeling preached at by this version.

To me the wonder of this adaptation is that they do things like have a meta opening with the lakorn and laughing at the accidental kiss and then have what for me were gut punch emotional moments with Thyme and Gorya at the gate and with Kavin and Kaning when she stands up to him. The writers are examining the narrative and serving you authentic emotional moments at the same time.

ETA: Found a YouTuber who also thinks the show is preachy and tells instead of shows: https://youtu.be/6ifdnJBGoDE. I find this very interesting because I am not experiencing it that way at all but I also recognize that the hand of the writers is very present in this if that makes any sense.

The director says it's a coming of age drama so you're not wrong about that but there's also a lot more going on talking about how people hold and abuse power, how that's tied to social status, how bullying is a structural problem that can't simply be attributed to a few individuals even if they are the F4, what it means to be a strong women (so many strong female characters in this) and a lot more. It's a complex story and that's a big reason I love it. FWIW I think the messages you described from HYD are also present: "It's about being true to yourself, honest with your own feeling, doing what you believe is right, and fights for things that you care about. "

I love this breakdown and agree 100%. I also think that Thyme's behavior after he looks at the 499 baht cost of the meal is beautifully done. He's bewildered but mostly quietly observing what's going on and behaving respectfully toward her family. He's sitting on the floor with them. He's at the head of the table because of his status but he's not purposefully flexing his status at the meal. You do have that moment where he explains why he doesn't need the magic pork and you think he's behaving like an ass but then it morphs into this beautifully sad moment. I just loved how the whole thing was handled and it set up the lovely moment between Thyme and Gorya at the gate.

Literally the only version where I wholeheartedly ship the ML & FL. In other versions I either actively hate the ML (Korean and Japanese versions) or feel conflicted because of how jaw droppingly violent he is (Taiwan)