kai

If you acknowledge the problems in those relationships I do agree ! Sorry I do not type a lot with capital letters hope this is easier now.
I didn't mean to compare it to BL i meant to compare to women sexualizing gay men, sorry if that was unclear before. I agree BL does not really only need to be a space for queer people alone, others can and should enjoy it if they want to. I simply feel agitated by the way that some cishet people who will take part in queer media (including just watching BL I guess) try to silence queer people when they dislike aspects to it and think its harmful etc. Hope that made some more sense but thank you for explaining your point kindly :)

but media and responses to it do have a real effect ? that's why this is upsetting me. i know you don't agree and probably never will thats why all i ask is just to look into it. anyway hope you guys have a good day and i hope you continue to enjoy the show . i do not have an issue with the whole community or the show nor do i even have much a problem with you guys. i'm not here to attack anyone (anymore because i know i did before and i am sorry for that) i used to have most of the same opinions which is why i just want to try and explain why i think it to be harmful. anyway just in case because this is /gen because i am worried it doesn't come across that way.

i wanna clarify bc people still keep mentioning what i said and at this point i'm just ... bored ?
anyway, i like the series as shocking as that may be. i was very happy with it and my reason for leaving it is just i feel if it creates and audience thats fine with what is happening then i worry for what else might go on so i just don't wanna continue that. my comment is toward people not the show because even if it's fake you should not just downplay what happened when it cannot be downplayed. it just glorifies the behavior and i know it's just a show but like ... it does not make their actions fake. this happens to real people daily and just because this event is fake does not mean something exactly the same has not happened before to someone. just something to think about i guess. my comment was not to say i didn't understand the warnings nor was it meant to have much to do with what went down in the show but rather the reactions.
also since i have seen people say that women sexualizing gay men is just expressing their sexual desire ... i just ..... i used to be confused by this myself when i was younger but - when men sexualize lesbians we know beyond well how not ok that is so why not for men ? i really do hope people look at this from another perspective because these thoughts are harmful to people which is where an opinion can no longer just be. i don’t regret coming for people saying it was not rape or people defending the characters because of the harm it does - same with my take on cishets making a place of their own in queer media and culture when there is hardly even a space for queer people to begin with. anyway i don’t feel like arguing about it so i wanna keep this passive but i do hope people look more into this because i think i made it clear already but seriously this only does bad and hurts people that are already hurt. anyway sorry to those i was lashing out on even if i disagree still i should probably have just tried to come with this point initially but i am so tired …

i have no privilege for being queer you fucking twat. and no shit the majority agrees with you you're way more known on here than i am and i came here knowing that especially with this show having the actors it does that i would not be largely agreed with. you are so fucking sad. hope one day you wake tf up and feel ashamed of yourself because you seriously should. gross as hell. anyway glad you enjoy standing up for rapists and being a general shithead when it gets you replies. very fucking shallow but sure. anyway have fun having no morals just because its a show <3

i want you to know that i and everyone with a conscience thinks you're putrid. you know it's on purpose but keep trying. all you are is a gross rape apologist who did on many accounts try to make me agree that it was not rape and all that bullshit. you're weird. if you are cishet you have no place to talk. and lastly, fuck you.

and out comes the purposeful transphobia. good day to you shit head.

oh nono please do reply to the fact that you're a proven rape apologist. please ?

absolutely never call me sweetie. just do not. childish as hell and gross as hell. anyway calling that rape is not an opinion nor is calling it consensual. it's fact that it was rape as we just learned together from the definition, no ? anyway if i'm entitled to my opinion then i can have my opinion on your shit take and all the other shit takes. also, i don't need to know anything more about you to know you are in fact a rape apologist because lets pull up the definition again together shall we ?

(Noun) Someone who defends rapists with full knowledge of the crimes they have committed

also personal favorite just for you (article titled 5 ways you might be a rape apologist by daneia russell or more specifically the points made that apply to you and the rest of the mob):

'It was “consensual.”
What one must understand is that when a person is a minor and the person they have sexual relations with is an adult, that is still sexual assault. Admittedly, there are some gray areas when they ages are relatively close (18-17), however, when the age differences are clearly a problem, a child cannot consent to sexual relations. The adult in the matter is more than likely being manipulative, using messages that induce language from the minor that would be perceived as “consent.” “They said they wanted to!” is not an excuse to sexually manipulate a minor.

Also, this doesn’t have to involve just minors. Many will also use this excuse when a victim is under the influence and responded positively to having a sexual encounter with someone else, but had they been sober, the answer probably would’ve been “no.” Manipulators will use the excuse of it being “consensual” because a “yes” or similar sentiment was heard, and the fire is extinguished even more so when there are people behind the attacker agreeing with that.'

i really can't stand all the people just saying bye when their point is disproven ig it should be expected but damn. anyway after seeing that someone just almost got raped no one in their right mind goes to them and tries to comfort them with kissing or sex ? because you should never do that. doesn't mean his character wasn't trying to do that, i wouldn't know. however i do wanna say it's crazy how this started with it not being rape and being a gray area to everyone and now ended in "yeah its rape and yeah ik i have a shit take but like i wanna ship them because it's fake so it's ok" lol but go on and do that if you want

i mean you can say you don't condone it but your actions are telling a whole different story. i really don't get this. like from what i see porche was given a drug literally seemingly TO make him horny and more out of it so that vegas could sa him. we know that much at least. what makes it different when kinn was doing the same ? just because there's feelings there ? i fully see why people think porche wanted to sleep with him but i think it should also really be paid some mind that he was drugged and thAT is why he can't consent. it's not because i think if he was sober he would say no, i'm not sure about that. but yet again i say even if he had said he wanted to do it: he cannot consent, kinn knew that, and still despite this they had sex. that is rape and anyone who is saying "well they're characters" iS a rape apologist because you can't separate the actions from the character. you just can't and nor can you say it's not rape because here's the definition since over and over people wanna say i'm the uneducated one; "unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception"

i mean obviously the show can portray it how they want and can include sa, i'm not saying that it's off limits at all but when it is meant to be seen by the audience as ok and then the audience does think that it's fine it's gross. hence why i came for the audience more because interpretation is sometimes more important than the actual work. i think it's actually kind of smart to make an sa scene where the person thinks the events happening are ok because a lot of people do tell themselves that they shouldn't feel gross about what happened and stuff but when the audience goes "no yeah that really was fine" that is when it's an issue for obvious reasons

yes it's bad to assume gender and i do realize now that i should have been less direct about the cishet stuff when the rest of the comment i made was directly to other people. that was dumb of me but my point still stands. most "bl" watchers identify themselves as cishet women and feel seen by the terms fujoshi and yaoi that come from women (typically cishet but regardless not men and therefore not having a place to sexualize gay men) and seeing a majority of the audience also support the sa does give me a right to assume that theres way too many people who aren't even queer just fetishizing whatever gay man they come across.

saying rape isn't ok and calling out people who say it is because they're characters or any other reason they may have is not silencing queer people ? because rape isn't just a queer issue ? i'm saying that as a trans man who has seen way too many people take away my rights just because of made up stereo-types just to see people glorify it 24/7 is a queer issue. thats all i started with and i made it quite clear that i'm silencing cishets and rape apologists not queer people unless those lines intersect which ofc sometimes they do and i have no remorse about that because yeah rape apologists should 100% be silenced lmfao

being part of the community literally does give me a voice louder than that of someone cishet ? wdym ? and in what way does saying rape is disgusting make queer people look bad ? trans people are constantly called rapists over nothing ofc i'm sensitive to this and i'm fully allowed to be. as queer people we can disagree but you can't silence me nor can i silence you because we both have a say as it's our community ... ?

i can speak generally about cishets without that being targeted to anyone. i know plenty of gay men who sexualize and fetishize themselves so clearly not everyone who does it is cishet. that being said, cishets are the ones with no right to speak on queer topics and will in fact therefore be met with criticism especially by someone who knows how differently its viewed to sexualize being a gay man as a woman versus as a man.

sorry i think i misunderstood because no way you just said that if someone doesn't talk about their rape it wasn't rape ? thoughts and emotions have no place here. he could have said "yes i want to do this" straight up and it would still be rape because he isn't of the right headspace to say that ? what's so hard to get ? but either way even if his character never talks about it and just moves on which i think can be safely assumed will happen, that changes nothing at all. not everyone raped talks about it and not everyone raped might even think it was rape but it still is.

people will get angry at those who support / encourage the acts of another because it plays the same role. this show wouldn't have been made if not for the supporters they knew they'd receive and all parties who share their opinion are up for critique just like i'm getting now. also i think a good thing to bring up here is that when people see something on tv or just see something too much they become numbed to it, how else would people who grow up around a mafia be so fine with murder etc when not everyone involved made that choice to be there ? it's because they are told differently and forced to become numb. big difference between that level of brainwashing and the way media brainwashes people but the only thing defending rape does, even if it's characters not people, is promote the idea that it just happens and that it is something that can have a "gray area" when it's not.

most people are angry with my take so i assumed it was just the same here, sorry if i assumed things i shouldn't have. but regardless the take that there's anything to defend about what we saw is still really not sitting right and saying it as though i need to hear both sides when i most certainly don't is upsetting to say the least.

i think its obvious that most people who view these are women or at least women are usually the majority of those who speak about how they feel on the shows and other works about gay men. as a trans man i can safely say that when i was presenting as a girl no one had anything to say about me liking the idea of gay men and most of my friends who were girls did the same stuff i would do aka watch a ton of gay dramas and just be really into things involving gay men in general. it's normalized and cishet women are given this idea that they have a right to lgbtqia+ topics when they don't at all and i think its gross that people deny it but then say "well yaoi is made for women so we can enjoy it" and apply that to other gay works as well but deny it when someone says its fetishization ?

nah why are you trying so hard to pretend you didn't call people trash that think vegas is disgusting. judging from your reply you know you were a big reason in me making this comment so why do you think i haven't seen yours ? in all seriousness though no its not up for debate. we saw them slip stuff in porche's drink, we saw him puke and stumble and pass out, and we saw him slur his speech and fall over just before they got intimate. that is rape.