sailam31

Episode 27....GAME CHANGER! Mind blown. Wow! That. Is. ALL!!

I wasn't defending the brother as much as trying to show you, historically, what reality was back then....to perhaps get you to not be as stressed over make-belive when reality was so much worse. Cdramas generally show us a much sanitized, fanciful version of the past...even the horrors. This is a made-up thing, a figment of the imagination, yet I can see how serious of a topic it is for you. You are equivocating it with the reality and morality of this time and it is very upsetting to you.

To put HQ's brother in perspective, he died a very sad death after living a wretched life, by saving his sister. For those of us seeing this as a story, we moved on except in relation to a sister who saw a brother giving his life to protect her. We don't excuse bad behavior, but often in these dramas, evil people suffer no consequences, horrible parents are forgiven, and the rich go on with no remorse/no lesson learned...he died, not for past actions, but he died. Is that not enough? His death moved the story forward and gave HQ the push she needed. He was an excellent plot device...you separate story from reality.

This is my last reply on this but small warning, you can't throw around terms like feminism, even if others introduced it first, without having misogyny brought up...they are ying-yang. Regards.

Thank you for replying but if I read what you wrote multiple times already, then reading it again would not really help...would it. My writing style can be a bit wordy and dry, so I get that you missed that my reply was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else. I hope you keep being passionate about dramas and find a few enjoyable ones that meet your standards. Regards!

This is a lot of hyperbole. I read your explanation 5 times so perhaps I am a member of the "brain dead" group that you are so strongly against. Your word salad lacked a bit of cohesiveness of thought other than a bit of misogyny ( seemingly painting divorce and feminism in a bad light), lack of understanding nuanced behavior or cdrama reaction (mass murdering equated to killings one's abusers or in defense..or even cdrama canon in which maintaining wealth and power are done by whatever method is most expedient)...or maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying completely here. I really would love to understand what you are saying. Did something seriously egregious happen in this drama out of the usual cdrama scheme-murder-love recklessly-suffer-suffer-suffer-"last 5 minutes of last episode happiness/death" trope, that I missed.

By the by, just curious, but most men who had concubines were serial rapist from reading your post...in your theory it would make emperors/nobles/men who were given or taking concubines in marriage because of familial ties/power/connections/money back then were all serial rapist because most women, including those born into noble families had little to no choice in who they married...and even further they had no choice who they were sold to.

This drama really set you off and I wonder if I am truly missing something heinous here...though I am actually enjoying this drama. I would be ever so grateful for more clarification.

I have loved every episode of this drama but the last few minutes of s2-e3 were truly masterful. My heart both soared and broke for them. Surprise, hope, fear, shame, love, hurt, wonder, doubt, and remembrance combined when their eyes met and in LJH's bellows of pain at seeing Gil Chae. Gil Chae's unending will to survive even with all the abuse and humiliation she has suffered and Jang Hyun's ability to outwit and outmaneuver every opponent, it all withered away in that moment and all you had were two people who deeply loved each other who were completely broken by circumstance. It was powerful and completely shattered me. Great acting all around!

I couldn't agree more. I think it is the "reality tv" affect where constant and instantaneous gratification from outrageous behavior is deemed as good. I call it that because it seems a lot of times I find in the comments that the more grandiose, whether nonsensical or borderline abusive/toxic, a plot is, the higher the rating. A well-paced story with characters making logical choices where the romance flows naturally but is not the central plot with always receive a lower score than a melodramatic, angst-written show with dubious consent and long-suffering female leads.

Don't get me wrong, I also like a good angst-ridden show as well, but I approach each drama as a new experience as to what story it is trying to tell and not as what I want it to be. It's like you said, if people only want to watch rom-coms then it is very unfair to watch an adventure drama and give it a low rating because you wanted more romance.

Ni Ni and Bai Yu were phenomenal! This was a great cast in general and...yeah, the rating is a little low undeservedly, but I am happy to see there are still a lot of people giving it a shot. Hopefully it will improve.

Hurray for 🌸Flower Power🌸 I haven't held my breath during so many scenes in a long time. This drama has been wildly exciting and I enjoyed every cat-and -mouse, cloak-and-dagger moment. Great on the romance, mystery, and martial arts. No one part of the story overpowered the other and it worked seamlessly to make a good story. Gorgeous casting who understood the assignment and delivered.

This was an incredibly beautiful and smart drama! Well written, well acted, and well presented from start to finish!

"I haven't seen him in his armor..But I have seen him without clothes." Mu Zhou Hua for the win via verbal knockout. Legend has it Sun Yun Yun is still roaming the grounds trying to find some face!

No matter what happens in the future, no matter the story line, and definitely not matter the ship...in episode 31, Cang Xuan was the real MVP. His speech to Feng Long and his very foolish twin Xin Yue was legendary status! The actor's bearing, his demeanor, was so noble and righteous...even when he said he was not a good man but he would protect his family until the end brought tears to my eyes! This drama is chock full of amazing actors, powerhouse scenes, and is extremely well written/directed!

Thanks for the info. I'm so weak! Lol Even though I have watched, and read, a lot of cdramas/wuxia, I'm still a puppy when it comes to revenge. The cdrama/wuxia way is to kill everyone and everything, down to the last blade of grass on ancestral lands, of the clan you revenge against but my heart...my big-eyed, pleading puppy heart will always insists for justice against only those who had the real power and perpetrators of these horrific act.

Oh wise one...teach me the ways of the JEDI! Boldly and Well said!

I am not a cold person...I still cry whilst watching animated movies for little kids. But if CX, XL, and TSJ don't revenge until the entire clans of those who planned this are wiped out, I won't feel there is any justice in the world! OK...OK...killing the entire clan is just wrong so...kill those who perpetrated and planned this assassination. Slowly...painfully...and eternally! They did Xiaoyao so wrong!😧😢😭

You said everything so clearly. I think a lot of viewers are just transferring their disappointment that she won't end up with their fave around to as many different characters as they can in defense of their fave and belief thought that a linear path story, 1 ML and 1 FL in clear view (usually the fan fave), is what should be expected. You said it brilliantly in that this is a rich drama with many different stories.

Also every character in this story is flawed and has both strengths and weaknesses, like every person that ever lived, but out of all of them XY is the most well rounded imo. The character of Xiaoyao is one of the better, more clear thinking, logical, cunning and intelligent female/roles I have seen in a long time. She is thoughtful, loves honestly but is also a critical thinker and can be brutally indifferent and cold if it involves protecting a loved one. She also treats people with the love denoted by their position in her life. She is not frivolous in her affections but also is helpful to those she cares about...as many other characters are in varying ways.

But I have to admit, I am now afraid to watch to days episodes. LOL Thanks for such a great comment.

I think you misunderstand me. It's not about him confessing to her or any other reason to denote his selfishness. Everyone keeps saying how much of a better match he is than Jing is for XY and that simply is not true...in my opinion. LOL

FFB is selfish in that his dishonesty and inability to be truthful and open with her is what is going to keep hurting her. In this instance, he could show her or he tell her, but chooses to hint around according to you guys...his intention was to send her in blind to find out about Hou and FFYY. Why not just tell her? Xiaoyao's personality is simple to me in that if you tell her she is the type to try to find the truth. He had nothing to gain by hinting and she had everything to lose because he was not direct. His inability to talk with her and treat her as a true confidant and friend will always make him a poor love partner, among other things, and that was my point.

He makes unilateral decisions without talking to, including, or being open and honest with her. He is a taker and his form of giving is backhanded and involves deception. Rather than tell her he would rather trick her...rather than help or reward her, he would choose to hit her. Their relationship is very whip and carrot with too few carrots in between. One thing I have always said is that he loves her but the way he loves her is unhealthy. So whether he confesses or not truly has no bearings on how he loves her...I see clearly that she honestly is the only person he seems to have formed a connection with other than the real FFB's mother. Real feelings are there...both ways. Yet there is very little openness and very little honesty. For me, his inability to communicate and the fact that his love language is aggression makes him inherently selfish. He does love her...in his own way. He does protect her...in his own way. Everything is his own way...which makes for a poor lifelong partner or friend. My statements were more so centered on the fact any relationship she has with him will always be tainted by his inability to completely trust and be open, and his constant need to manipulate...at this point. It has nothing to do with them getting together, any future friendship that they have, or anything they have in the future. It was just a rebuttal on how some see them now. I haven't read the book so I can only comment on what I see and not is what to come. AT THIS POINT, Jing is the only man to genuinely offer her honest, open love that requires only her to agree to it. Both Xuan and FFB offer love with strings.

I am literally working and had it playing in the background. I will watch the episodes again when I am off the clock. But I am loving this discussion. Please point out more things...but again, I have not read the book and can only comment on the story we are watching up to episode 26...and I have to re-watch 25-26 entirely as I missed a lot of plot points it seems. I don't mind people pointing out things they see as wrong and I don't mind admitting when I am wrong. I will defend my points vigorously when I disagree and will admit when I am wrong when it is so, so I truly appreciate different points of views!This is a great discussion!

Note included in original to point to your response. Thanks for the clarity. I gave a like and a point to look below my comment for correct take on that point. My "wrongness" was great in that statement. Lol

The "wrongness" in some of your post is really quite startling. (((The following statement between this mea culpa is wrong on my part will re-watch episode...thanks for clarifying...read comment below this one for clarification will give comment a like...won't take credit when I am wrong but will leave statement to accept responsibility...everything els stands. THANKS INSIDEOUT 91)) Someone said FFB was trying to show XY that Jing was cheating on her with his sister but wouldn't listen, that Jing had an engagement so he shouldn't have approached XY until it was settled,((((The following statement between this mea culpa is wrong on my part will re-watch episode...thanks for clarifying...read comment below this one for clarification will give comment a like...won't take credit when I am wrong but will leave statement to accept responsibility...everything els stands. THANKS INSIDEOUT 91)))that FFB/Xiang Liu is the perfect guy for her. Let's just start this off with none of these men are perfect, and the good sis Xiaoyao would probably rule the world if she wasn't busy saving all of them at one point or another. Let's be clear on that! Let's also be clear that she loves each one of them in different ways yet they all want to love and possess her for their own. But who is more deserving is the best question? I would like to address a few of the comments that confused me a little.

FFB knows that his "sister" is having an affair with Jing's brother. He is actually quite brilliant in that he is the one character that seemingly knows what's going on with every other character in the story. He wasn't trying to help XY by showing her Jing was doing this imaginary cheating you want to portray him as doing. FFB wanted to make her doubt Jing further so he could swoop in to get closer to her heart. He wanted to break them up not with the truth but with doubts. He will always hurt Xiaoyao if he can get what he wants, in this instance her.

Jing's major character flaw is that he is man of principle, as much as one can be in a cdrama, and filial piety means whatever his elder tells him to do, he will. This was an arranged marriage that was made prior to his meeting XY. Yet, even with filial piety he boldly noped out of the engagement because he loves Xiaoyao so dearly. He clearly has told his elder, who promised to break the engagement if he followed her plan of doing it slowly, gently and following protocol. He clearly told FFYY he was breaking the engagement as they had no affection for each other and yet she desperately clings to him because she knows, though she loves Hou, Jing is the key.

Jing and XY both have a plan...15 years is a long time and I would love to see the person who could sit back and watch the person they love spending time with someone else and have no emotion. And for the record, XY got just as jealous and upset with Jing when she saw him with FFYY, when she thought he was ignoring her as the wine supplies slowed down, etc...it's a cdrama so everyone gets jealous and reactive often in the story.

FFB/Xiang Liu stays true to character in every episode. He is passionate, powerful, persuasive, and completely selfish. In every episode, they show his love comes with pain and his help comes with strings...he is beautifully broken but he is a survivor and completely loyal in his own damaged way. He was only willing to help the real FFB if he got something out of it and he was willing to hurt Xiaoyao by making her think Jing was cheating on her if he got her in the end...even if it was a lie. He was willing to have her kill the man she loved with a lie and a trick! His disregard for her feelings in deference to his own is his standard operating mode. But apparently the ends justify means when it comes to this character!

And for all of you shippers, think about this: Xiayao is constantly saving Xuan with her presence, logic, and connections to Jing. Xiayao is always saving FFB/Xiang Liu with her blood and even with her status when the guards were looking for him. What does Jing ask her for...Jing is the one person who asks for her love, no strings attached. Jing is the one person who she trusts to go to for help ...Jing is now the one saving her by saving those she loves! Think about that.

THIS!!! All of this! All the day long! This is the most succinct, most on-point, description of each character and their motivations and viewpoints in the story that I have seen. Yes, it is fiction and yes, it is fantasy, but that does not mean there isn't a level of critical thinking, cohesiveness, and a good old dose of common sense that goes into good storytelling. Some of these responses to cdramas often make me wonder if the shippers have ever had a relationship in real life, and a step further, if they've ever had a healthy relationship.

Xiang Liu is indeed incredibly self-destructive, yet he does love Xiayao deeply. I think we can all acknowledge that as the story goes on, he shows US his feelings clearly. That is where the critical thinking has to come in. Is it okay to simply love someone no matter how you treat them? His bond with her started and is based on his finding they both shared a brutal childhood. That is when his actions became less brutal with her, but as soon as he thought she had lied to him, he didn't talk to her, he didn't investigate, he plotted a way to hurt her for her "betrayal." After gaining clarity, he watched and made sure she was safe as she went to Jing. The kicker is he literally forced her to swim in the ocean all night...so even his good deeds are tinged in cruelty.

Xiang Liu is a very compelling character and the actor who plays him is absolutely mesmerizing. There was one scene where he tilted his head slightly and narrowed his eyes and just stared and I swear I felt the whole earth tilt. He is breathtakingly beautiful...with any color hair. But the character is so damaged, so broken, his love will always be a double-edged sword because while there are good parts, the negative aspects pf his type of "love" will always outweigh them...and no matter which way you turn it, it will always hurt both Xiayao and him.

Again, you explained each character so clearly. Thank you! Well done!

A chad move means he moved like a boss....big eggplant energy! Lol

Look at our "naive and way too nice" Shiqi making power moves behind the scenes. Yes, Shiqi is a simp for Xiayao, but Tushan Jing has the power, connections and cunning to back it up. All of the characters in this drama are very nuanced and the acting is powerhouse.