solipsism5

I agree, and thank you so much. I thought I was picking up on symbolism but apparently not :)

These are great insights and lends this drama a whole new level of meaning beyond your normal BL like 2gether. Do you get these insights from the novel, from other viewers, or your own research?

Thanks again for your response and I too appreciate a nice civil conversation on this board. I like to listen and learn especially from people who have such articulate and well reasoned arguments. I like your high standards that you would like to have for BL’s and I completely agree with you. I am at the same time going to grade most BL’s very gently and I will probably enjoy many that are no where near the quality of ITSAY. If I was making a BL I would agree with you and would want to have the highest standards – things like excellent cinematography, an interesting and compelling plot, great direction and acting, and very few tropes [especially the most pernicious ones]. Unfortunately, most other producers of BL’s aren’t thinking this way at all, and I’ll have to accept what we get. I personally don’t have time to improve the industry, but I hope the standards improve.

I’ll agree with you that Vich and Prem are not the most exciting couple, but what I still like about them is that they are representative of good people that are stable and in love with each other. This is what I mean by that they are a good model for young gay people. It think there aren’t too many examples of this in BL’s. It’s mostly people that are messed up that are thrown together because of drama. I think Vich portrayed his character well and it can probably be seen better when he interacts with his friends like Gameplay. Prem’s character is supposed to be low-key and reticent. I think he played the character he was told to play. Their chemistry might just be a low key one, but I will agree that it’s not very intense feeling. It could be just subjective that there is or is not any chemistry there – I always find this difficult to gauge. Prem and Vich also take little air time, so you won’t lose much if you skip them. Whether they should have been cut out entirely is difficult to say but I think it’s a minor point.


The realism in the drama is in many places. In one of my previous posts I said that the Nan Province is portrayed very realistically, more so than any other village in BL’s including the artificial village in Tale of a Thousand Stars. I stressed how they went to Wat Phumin temple which is a completely unknown but beautiful temple in Nan province. The artist and his lady is a symbol of Nan province and it really is in all the tourist shops on t-shirts and tourist memorabilia. The tour guide in the temple was portrayed perfectly and is totally like a tour guide you would see commissioned by the Thai government. The setting in Nan province in the river was also totally realistic, as well as the country restaurant of Aek’s mom. Regarding Im-Aue, the restaurant, I’ve said it was done well because it has the patina of a restaurant that has been well used, and they show simple things like the prep being done for the next day. This is a level beyond even ITSAY. Except for Prem and Vich, perhaps, I felt the rest of the cast acted pretty naturally and realistically. Can we say about 80-90 percent of the acting was pretty decent if you consider all the cast members? Consider Nuna, chef Aui, Gameplay, Eve, Wiphob, etc. I think that is good enough, imo.

Another point of realism for me was the competition. Having watched many chef competitions and having worked as a chef myself, and even knowing other people that were involved in competitions, I can say that, though brief, the actual competition was portrayed very realistically. They even brought in some French judges to add that extra vaneer of authenticity. The portrayal of the judges was done very well – even better than in a show like Top Chef. When you ask why a judge says there was something missing in the dish when discussing Aek’s final preparation for the competition, that is said all the time. It is easier to say why a dish is good than what it’s missing. In general, that means the dish was not a success at all – the chef experimented too much and created something that didn’t work. It could also mean there were some good elements to the dish [like the rice in Aek’s dish], but that it didn’t come together as a cohesive whole.

Considering what you asked about what motivations people had to go into the competition and what they got out of it, I’ll try to tackle one at a time. Aue actually states in episode 10 around the 18 minute mark “Chef [Mu], I have never competed with you, I’m competing with myself.” In other words he was in this competition the whole time to just improve himself. Competitions are good for that – they are grueling and the ultimate test of anyone’s culinary skill. For Aek, he says to Vich that he must win this contest or give up being a chef – when he loses he has a mental breakdown because he has to confront whether he will have to give up his dream of being a chef. I believe he thought he had to win to prove to his mother he could make it in this career. When I was talking about the mom and her being worried about her kid, the problem is that chefs make very little in Thailand unless they work in some premier establishment and that is why she preferred he stick it out at the university. Aek’s mom is relieved that Aue is basically saying he’ll keep him on and take care of him as well. In episode 10 at about the 27:30 mark Aue tells her that he’s entering Aek in the competition and that he has a great talent. He also thinks he will be very successful as a chef. The mother does an excellent job here and actually looks distressed, and then asks Aue for some reassurance, she says, “You have to promise me first that you will take good care of him,” He says, “I promise you, mom,” and she replies, “If you are so sure, how can I get in the way.” Aek is comforted by his mom during his breakdown and she is ready to accept his career choice because of her previous understanding with Aue [which is spliced appropriately right at this spot]
Chef Eve had a grudge against Aue and perhaps this is a case of the Shakespearean adage “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.” By winning the competition Eve hoped to humiliate Aue and that was part of her revenge. Having lost the competition, and having lost her revenge, pitying herself, she tells Aue the story of the monkey and the bean, telling him how incredibly hurt she is because he rejected her. I believe the loss in the competition was the impetus for this. I’m sure that is what the director intended, but whether you think that was a proper enough motivation for her is up to you.

I think the central conflict was handled ok, meaning the internal struggle of the main character. It’s depicted even earlier than episode 8 if you consider the conflict with Aue in episode 4, and the depictions of how close Aek is with his mom starting even with episode 1.
I know sometimes this drama is a little challenging and non-linear. It might be because it takes artistic liberties. I like some old classics like Andrei Rublev by Tarkovsky where there are 8 separate vignettes that you have to piece together in your head to make a complete movie, some of them don’t even have the protagonist in them at all. I agree that sometimes Bite Me, asks you to do some work putting things together, but I didn’t find it to be a great challenge and I got the general gist of things pretty well. Sorry for the long response here, but I was trying to answer as many of your questions as possible. I still don’t even think I answered them all =).

This was a really good episode. This might be the same story we've seen in a 100 other BL's but it's executed so much better and without problematic storylines, a thousand side couples, screeching ladyboys, or toxic female leads. The acting is great and just so spontaneous. I really like Nanon in a BL - he's a total natural at this. He seems better at this than some leads that have been in several series that still make you feel queasy because they seem so uncomfortable. I think this episode is helped by the fact that we don't have all that silly fighting, and it's good to see that there were some consequences to the fights that already took place.

I also like how the leads, especially Pat, take care of each other throughout. This helps develop the romance much better than in other series where the leads are making inappropriate sexual advances or being jerks (in general). Pat's always looking out for Pran and does it almost surreptitiously. I wish this BL could just continue like this- it's so breezy and uplifting right now. It has all the innocence and sweetness without the drawbacks of other BL's.

Well said! I like how you laid this argument out and I appreciate how much you went in to such detail.

Before I make my response to this, I just want to say that, for me, comparing any current BL to ITSAY is almost unfair - it's the gold standard for many of us. If I can draw an analogy, most of the BL's I've seen are akin to swimmers going across the pool doing the doggy paddle. Maybe a few get to the point (like Tale of a Thousand Stars), where they perform a classy looking freestyle. ITSAY is like someone in the same pool diving off the high board, performing several perfect pirouettes in the air, and cutting through the water without a splash. It's just so far ahead of everyone else, that I'm not going to say this BL is bad because it's not as good as ITSAY. Nonetheless, I think the cinematography in this series is actually better than ITSAY and the realism might be on par, or better. The story is not complex enough to compare to it, nor is the symbolism. Both ITSAY and Bite Me have excellent acting and very few tropes.

Concerning the competition, I thought it was ok that it was relegated to a lesser position in the drama. I remember when reading Moby Dick I was waiting for 700+ pages for the confrontation with the White Whale. Talk about slow, slow burn. Nothing even happens for the first several hundred pages, for the most part, but the 3-4 pages of the confrontation with Moby Dick was the whole drama. The competition is just the touchstone from which various character issues are resolved and does play an important part, though it is not as central as one might have expected, and didn't occupy a lot of air-time during the series. Aue realizes during the competition that he has nothing to prove and that he should just compete with himself. Eve realizes her bitterness against Aue was misplaced and the competition was unimportant in resolving their personal conflict. Aek has a breakdown with the pressure the competition put on him and he's pushed forward to confront his issue with his mother.

The central theme to me is what I have stated above, Aek's confrontation with his mom both about his sexuality and his career. His mother doesn't want him to become a chef because she doesn't want to him to struggle in life like she has being a single mom in the third world-like setting of Nan Province. She only relents with that as she realizes Aue will be taking care of Aek and she won't have to worry about his future well-being.

I don't know about the stiff acting. I thought the acting was very good, for the most part. I think only in episode 2-3 is Mark really stiff and I've always said that was to convey the difference in his mentality from the beginning to the end of the drama. The only other character I found to be stiff was Prem, but he did convey a lot with his eyes which seemed very soulful to me. Concerning Prem and Vich, the couple most people didn't care for, I thought they were a very nice couple, and a model one for young gay people. Maybe they weren't exciting but I found them to be representative of many ordinary gay couples (as opposed to the Hollywood versions we see in a lot of BL's). Prem also serves as the contrast to Aek, because he's comfortable with both his sexuality and his career.

Does the drama need build-up for an inner conflict to be properly presented? I don't agree that it does. I, myself, wasn't happy with the sudden shift in episode 8, but I felt it wasn't that much of an issue later on. Sure, foreshadowing would have been nice, but it ended up not being necessary here. The inner conflict occurs during the confrontation with Aue, the crying in the rain, the second confrontation with Aue in Aek's dorm room, the confrontations with Vich, and then the collapse during the competition. That is enough of a depiction of his inner struggle for me, and I was relieved when the tension finally lifted.

This drama is not for everyone, and I don't mind at all that it doesn't fit people's personal preferences. I just wish people would let everyone make up their own mind. The top rated review of this drama encourages people to not waste their time because this drama is totally pointless. Hey, I've watched series like Make It Right, and Dark Blue Kiss which weren't great but I wouldn't tell people to not waste their time with them. I enjoyed those series, myself, and I don't think they are that good at all, and I would say to others, give this one a chance. Maybe [sigh] you have to watch it at 2x speed to get through the slower parts, but I still think it's enjoyable and worthwhile. If you don't have a problem with the plot, this series has some excellent cinematography, virtually no tropes, excellent acting, a good music score, very handsome leads, and some very beautiful food shots. It also touches on other areas like history, spirituality, and art working to create a very complete and detailed landscape. Like Aue says, life is about society, art, culture, history and religion, and I have never seen a BL go into that the way this drama does.

I just want to clarify why some of us really like this BL and why I don’t agree with a lot of the criticisms. I want to be clear that I understand what slow-paced means. I live in the US and I visited the South where they talk pretty slow. I, myself, talk a 100 miles per hour, and I talked to people down there and I would tell them things like, hmmm, could you repeat that, I fell asleep mid-sentence [joking]. I remember thinking that they talked in circles and repeated themselves to the point I fell into a coma [exaggerating], but as I grew older I began to appreciate the “southern charm”, and the wonderful expressiveness of their manner of speech. I think it’s just a style and there is nothing wrong with it.

Nonetheless, I have heard that many people have called this drama slow but that doesn’t even apply to many of the episodes. The problem with this criticism is that it is rather vague and doesn’t apply to so much of the series. Everyone liked episode 1 and they lauded the show after that. The second and third episodes had the staring which was uncomfortably slow for most people and had to be the slowest episodes of the series. 4 and 5 were a lot faster with 5 being much more so covering scenes where the protagonists visited both an art gallery and Nan Province. Episodes 6-7 weren’t slow either and 8-10 were rather fast paced. Episode 11 was what I would consider an epilogue and was all over the place but was definitely not slow paced because it covered a rather large amount of material. So the slow paced episodes in my opinion were 2 and 3. I rewatched this to make sure. Can someone tell me why they considered the other episodes to be slow? I find that a rather confusing criticism.

I don’t care at all that that the competition was relegated to a minor place in the drama. The love story is paramount and we don’t have to care about the competition if it doesn’t have anything to do with the love drama. I think people are confused about the central thesis of this series. The main struggle is the internal one where Aek has to overcome his mother’s non-acceptance of his being gay as well as his career choice. Let’s discuss the fact that this is Thailand where being gay is rarely accepted and Aek would have every reason in the world to expect that his mother would not be accepting of this. That his mother is really kind of angelic doesn’t have any bearing on this central fact, and this is the drama of the whole series. Now, I understand in Hollywood and other places we need villains and a lot of external events that create drama but this is a more psychological and artistic drama that eschews these ideas. This is a series that relies on an internal struggle of the main character and guess what, this is how real life plays out. You, yourself, don’t have villains in your life that control what you do and how your life turns out – it’s really all up to you. The internal struggle is everything but most dramas don’t focus on that. I love that this one does. So many times people have complained that there is no plot, but I totally disagree. The plot is that Aek is struggling to overcome his mother’s very likely non-acceptance of his being gay and his career choice. Is that a real drama? It certainly is for most gay people. I had to come out to my own parents and it was not accepted at all. How is Aek supposed to know if his mom is going to accept him? His mom is the central person in his life and if she didn’t accept him anymore it would be devastating. The show explained this indirectly but powerfully with Aek fighting his love for Aue, even attacking him. Aek has a total melt-down with his mom after the competition and cries like a baby while confronting the issue. It’s only after his mom confronts him in a beautifully subtle way, telling him he has to tell her now about the thing he is covering up that he can finally address his struggle.

This is a drama where mature and good people have to overcome their own internal struggles and it is handled in a sensible and dignified way. I don’t understand what the issue of that is. I found it to be both magnificent and incredibly moving to the point I confused this drama with a real life situation.

I really love the psychological exploration of this show and feel that it is just so innovative for a BL and very well done. I think this is just wholly neglected in these criticisms of the drama. Yes, you see the magnificent cinematography, but my belief is that the drama is as beautiful as the visuals of the series. The attention to detail, the focus on art and Buddhism, on history and local geography is totally ignored in the criticism I find in here. To me it is one of the best BL series I have ever found and has been a magnificent experience for me, personally. I am sorry that so many have found it to be a waste of time, but I hope you will let those who have enjoyed it, express our appreciation.

The presentation for the desserts is only what would you would see in a premier restaurant establishment, like a Michelin star restaurant. The elaborate displays that were done quite beautifully would not fit under glass cases. The final scene where Aue and Aek were at was Nan province - the tour guide in Nan province stated that the picture of the artists and the lover which you see on the doors to the bungalow was a symbol of the province. It was highlighted in the episode when Aue and Aek visited Nan province many times. Pock could easily become a teacher of accounting or business and he definitely seems like someone that would be a good teacher. Prem says to Vich many loving words so I don't see how the script failed him - I believe he conveys his love in an understated way that is not something that is typical in most dramas but which is pretty natural and authentic, in my opinion. That they cut from scene to scene in an epilogue is typical of epilogues from well past the Victorian era and I don't see anything unusual there.

There has always been a disconnect in how I've seen this drama from a lot of other viewers. I wonder, at times, if it's this kind of thing that has been brought up in this post, the misunderstanding of various details, is what might be causing this.

That's like saying the opinion of the majority is always correct. This is always a logical fallacy. It's good to state your opinion, and I accept the fact that most people that I've seen comment on here don't like this show but that doesn't mean that reflects on all the people that are reading things on here - they might just not be as vocal. Over time, also, people's opinions change, especially when you consider dramas that are out of the ordinary.

That was really a wonderful ending. I like how this drama finished on such a positive note while still maintaining all its realism. I liked how they brought so much of the thematic material back - the artist and his lover, the art gallery, the pictures of monks. It was such a wonderful recap. The two main couples were highlighted this episode and they exchanged such touching words. Eve is brought back as well and has a small redemption arc and we get to see the very good side of her character. I love the final setting over the landscape in Nan province. That beautiful purple-pink sunset was magnificent. That little bungalow where they kiss just has this wonderful rustic charm that was just the perfect setting for the simple and true love of Aue and Aek.

I don't think you're being too aggressive in showing your interest about this series. Nothing against Tandem28, but I think he's mistaken. You've been pretty courteous handing out links to the novel. There's also nothing wrong about being enthusiastic about the series and i don't find you're drowning the board with your comments. Even if you did, I don't care if people blanket the page with how much they love Bad Buddy and it doesn't make me think they are an employee or associate of GMMTV.

What does your last sentence mean? Is that some autocorrect feature gone haywire?

I like Pran's gang a lot better but they both engage in these ridiculous fights. I think they get a little too much praise even if they are much more supportive of Pran, and don't bully waiters etc. Maybe they are the lesser of two evils. Korn needs to be put in a juvenile detention center, though - his behavior seems to be the worst of all. They better not rush the redemption arc for that one.

Pat wakes up likes he's getting ready for his daily job at the porn studio. I really like all these egregious displays of Ohm's sexuality - thanks to whoever for that. I like the chemistry between the leads, and Nanon looks much more attractive here than I've ever seen before [is it the haircut?]. It is a compelling story even if it's an oldie, like that of the Capulets and Montagues with enough variation to make it interesting enough. There's a steady rhythm to the story that keeps it entertaining, except for the fight scenes which are just overdone. Pat's friends are pretty awful but they are pretty realistic of a lot of messed up kids in universities - they aren't there to be moral exemplars but as examples of the petty evils that virtually anyone can slip into, especially at a young age. Overall, this has been a good series that is executed very well with a compelling plot, good direction, and excellent acting.

I know some people complain about the way Aue forgave Aek without even a hint that something had gone wrong between them. I think it's what I love about this show - the subtle, psychological interactions between various characters, especially Aue and Aek. Thinking back to when Aue and Aek had their fight about the competition, Aek just forgave Aue without us seeing any dramatic gestures, or any real communication about his feelings. It's just the interpretation of each other's body language, and intellectual understanding of the actual motivation for Aue being understood [that he wasn't being selfish when he wanted Aek to join the competition]. I really love how David Bigander pulled this off and it's so much more like an Indie film.

Before we get to the reconciliation with Aue after their big fight I want to reinterpret a few scenes for people. These two characters have a very deep connection that is similar to the connection that Aek has with his mother. When they have the big fight, Aue doesn't understand Aek's motivation but he completely understands Aek at a very deep level, and perhaps the kiss he gives him is to explain to him that he doesn't think of him as a brother, and he has to tell him with this gesture because words wouldn't work here. He also knows Aek loves him and is fighting against him for no valid reason. When he sees Aek again at his apartment he knows Aek is still not ready but he has to say that he loves him because Aek is fighting it and trying to drown his own understanding of their love for each other. Aue sees he's struggling and not telling the truth especially seeing Aek crying as he's telling him to leave.

When they finally reconcile they are back to their old familiar understanding. Just with a smile Aek tells Aue that he's not fighting it anymore, and Aue understands him so perfectly that is all he needs to have them make up. I say it was done brilliantly by David Bigander, and even if I'm wrong about some of the details here, I'm sure I'm right in general about this. I clearly believe that the reconciliation without all the fanfare was much more spectacular than anything else that could have been done. And their playful and joyous interactions afterwards were just so moving and lovely.

I love how well the competition in this series was done. It was another point where this show paid such good attention to details. The whole contest was reminiscent of something like out of Top Chef but with even less theatre. I love how they even brought in some french judges to add that extra level of finesse. Everything is just taken so seriously in this show, and the judges acted with such professionalism. It reminded me of the tour guide in Wat Phumin temple - that guy was just played to perfection [if you take a tour at a historic site in Thailand you'll see what I'm talking about].

Wonderful analysis! I think it's just such a high compliment to call this Bergmanesque and I second that sentiment. Even in the best BL's I've watched I never think things like this director is very Kubrick-like, or Felliniesque. And I really enjoy the fusion of his Thai spirit with his Swedish noir because instead of seeing the bleak Scandinavian landscape I see a wonderful effervescent joyousnous that comes out with his directing.

I don't understand how these people get triggered so easily. In Hollywood you have to pair exquisitely handsome people together because that is what draws a larger audience. It's pretty obvious. I think this is Nanon's first BL and I've always found him to be average looking. I think he's a great actor, but I completely agree with your point. I can't even find Bad Buddy Butt - where is it at? It sounds comically bad - that's going to be my excuse for watching it.

This is just such an infectious show. I love the comic delivery every episode, especially by Ryu - he has this very cute child-like comic delivery. I think Jet plays the clueless lover very well, and Mix has his own kind of comic delivery that is also completely on point. I don't think the story really matters. It's just the humor in the show that is captivating and entertaining.

Welcome back! Hope you're enjoying this milquetoast BL. It's about 10% better than Don't Say No, but I'm enjoying it [shame on me]. I don't really like the name of this show. Seems a little infantile. I like Bad Buddy Butt better <---some wonderful alliteration there (have you ever seen that Japanese movie?). I see you're in the middle of a heated debate, here. Have fun!

I really think even more of the drama has been explained. The emotional tension of Aek has been resolved with a lot of what looked like gut-wrenching crying with his mom. I think the whole motivation for his actions have been because of the fear of his mother's reaction to his relationship. The build-up to Aek's coming out to his mom was developed beautifully, with first, the intense crying at the competition. Both know what needs to be said, and when the mom asks him "You need to tell me now", Aek knows exactly what she is talking about. I think they conveyed beautifully the deep connection of Aek with his mom, both with the flashbacks, and the build up to that scene where he comes out, and how they understand each other without using any words.

I understand the mother's motivation in keeping Aek out of the cooking profession, and only when she is reassured by Aue does she give in to it. Thailand is at best a second world country and in the rural areas, is more like the third world. Aek's mom would have had to struggle to provide for herself and her family, especially being a single mom. She didn't want Aek to struggle like that and her motivations were very pure. She understands that Aue can take care of Aek so she doesn't resist his becoming a chef anymore.

There were so many wonderful scenes with Eve, and Nuna this episode. I really felt so strongly Eve's despair, and her story about the monkey and the bean was so poignant - she desperately loved Aue with a heartfelt crush and she could do nothing about it. With her last reserves of good faith, she tells him that she knows he's a good person and that he always cares so much for people. You could feel how hard it was for her to say those words. Nuna's scene was also very sad and she says such wonderful parting words to someone that obviously hurt her, that he should pursue his own happiness as a chef. Her magnanimity is still seemingly wasted on her former boyfriend and I liked the realism of that.

Aek's reconciliation with Aue is very joyful, and I don't believe it came without a struggle. His mother has given him permission and acceptance. After the last two episodes of his agonizing over it, this is a wonderful and joyous resolution. I was really feeling very fulfilled this episode, and I understand people don't like most of this series, but I still really feel it is one of the best series out there. Hopefully this episode redeems the show for some of you.