tilted-sun

Okay, i think its offensive. You dont. Thats okay. We can disagree.
I think there is a differnence of people having criticism and a hate mob, i know he was being criticised for other things but i do agree that criticism should be done respectfully.
However, i do disagree with how you are describing what happened. I saw mostly respectful comments explaining why people took offense and i didnt see any comment about reporting it. I saw people asking for him to acknowledge it, apologies and do better in the future.
If people were rude about it they were wrong for that but not wrong for expressing how they felt.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying problematic media, but lets not pretend that its not got faults.
This will ne my last message because ive said my piece.
Hope you all have a good day

At first he aplogised and then he retweeted people who didnt see an issue with the scene before he finally just began blocking anyone who even respectfully told him the scene wasnt good. It made the original apology feel very perfomarive and then he got defensive and began refusing to allow any criticism

This comment section genuinely makes me sad. If you dont think the scene was offensive thats fine, whatever.
But if you didnt find it offensive and are now making comments to undermined and dismiss or de-legitimise those who do then i hope you see the issue with that.
If someone found this offensive (which i believe it is and the directors responds deserves its own criticisms) then surely it is better to be quiet and listen and genuinely try to understand why before you get all defensive and begin making comments like they are an sjw, 'not all of them think this way', you need thicker skin.
You can enjoy problematic things, thats fine but we shouldnt pretend they arent problematic.
Enjoy the show, acknowledge its faults and then let them as an industry improve and do better in the future.

This incident isnt compariable to the lil nas x incident.
This incident furthers colourism and racism within the indudustry.
The lil nas x situation is people getting angry that he reclaimed stereotypes they used against him. The difference is intent and privilege. To compare them is a false narrative that ignores context.
I get you arent offended and thats okay but you shouldnt assume everyone should agree with you.
Have your opinion but let others have theirs

You should be aware that this is misinformation, There are multiple types of surrogacy, some result in biological relationship some dont. When you enter into a surrogacy agreement the resulting children are legally yours regardless of biology. She is legally responsible for these children. She admitted she entered a surrogacy agreement with a well known agency in the US, which makes the claim about the other woman ridiculous because it implies he managed to get a respected institution to help him deceive a woman over an affair.
The above commenter has a habit of using unreliable sources and taking details out of context. I'm sure its coming from a nice place of support and seeing the best in the person they supported, but my suggestion is if you see any of the information they give to double check it with reliable sources yourself.

Okay, I will not be checking notifications regarding this thread anymore so please excuse me if I don't reply from now on.
However, I heard from facebook there was a monster in loch ness. You get me?
I partially agree with you. Social media can be extremely reliable and useful, we've seen how effective it can be in recent protests when traditional media failed those communities. But we have also seen with the rise of anti-vax how easily misinformation spreads.
I'm not saying don't believe things on social media, I'm saying take everything with a grain of salt and don't then spread that information without further research especially because custody is a civil case so the word innocent would not be used for a civil lawsuit.
From my research on news sites and on social media both from my understanding she did win a lawsuit against her ex. But that lawsuit was one regarding a debt, the lawsuit regarding her children is still on going.
It very well might be that she has won the case regarding the children, but we should be cautious how we spread information that the only source is some person on the internet who we don't know the intent of.

I genuinely find the loyalty in this section admirable and I respect that, but I hope you respect my right to be cynical until a more reliable source reports this.
I thank the people in this thread for the respectful and civil debate and hope you all have a good day

I mostly agree that private and business should be kept separated. Like I don't care who actors date or how they spend their days, but I do care if they are doing something illegal or morally wrong so I can critically decide whose projects and shows I should support.
The lawsuit regarding the children is on going so I doubt it was the result of the court.
As I said if you want to support her that's fine and I support your right to do that, but don't spread misinformation or, even if it is true, information without context. She won a lawsuit about money, thats a separate issue to her actions regarding the children.
If you see her as a victim, thats okay and I agree her ex has done bad things in this situation but him being bad doesn't absolve her.

This will be my last message but I hope I'm not overstepping when I offer advice to anyone who takes the time to read this. I'm probably a little older than a lot of the commenters so time has given me the benefit of experience, so if I may:
sometimes the greatest form of support you can give someone is holding them to account, you are allowing them the opportunity to grow and learn. However, don't put impossible standards on these actors/actresses, it is dehumanising them to put them on a pedestal. You will either be disappointed when they make a mistake or believe they can never make a mistake.
Enjoy what you enjoy, support what you want to support and know its okay to enjoy things casually. A lot of internet culture plays into knowing everything about the thing or person you like, but you can enjoy a thing for what it is without knowing more about it. Its a choice whether or not you want to engage more and there is a value in that separation.

Weibo is a social media site not a news source. Especially if it is a group about her that has a bias towards her.
If It is true that the ex has this scheme that something he should be held responsible for.
But again even if he did she has admitted she went for surrogacy and then didn't take responsibility for the children that she believed were hers.
You can support her, I don't care. But you shouldn't confuse being hold responsible for hate. I don't hate her, I just think everyone in that situation did things they should be accountable for.
As for what I would have done, I wouldn't have gone for surrogacy at all if I wasn't fully committed to being a mother in the first place.
As I said, if you want to support her, I support your right to do that. And as I stated I don't support the censorship and blacklisting in China, but I do believe we should engage with media personalities critically

You shouldn't post information from unreliable sources like its fact. Arguably even if they were DNA tested depending on the type of surrogacy they might not be biologically hers, that doesn't absolve her of responsibility for them.

In truth we do not know the circumstances of the surrogacy but she has admitted to going overseas to start surrogacy as it is illegal in China. Her and her partner broke up and a tape was released where eligibly she requested the surrogate to have a late stage abortion and it is known she didn't have contact with the children for an extended period of time.

Now I recognise that both commenters above this are both probably young, however I hope you look at your comments critically. The implication that if a child isn't biologically yours you should abandon it as though it isn't 'yours' is an insult to every step-parent, adopted parent and foster parent who puts the work in. She went out of her way to use her money to bring these children into the world with the intent of them being her children and then failed to step up to the responsibility that decision resulted in.
Now I'm pro-choice, pro-surrogacy so I don't even have moral issues with her seeking out a surrogate or an abortion if it was early in the pregnancy. However, the fact she went about it without the tact or care or ability to take responsibility the situation required didn't just effect her, or the 2 children. It had larger implications of a wealthy woman using her money to work around the law, it had an effect on the LGBT+ community in China who were advocating for surrogacy to be made legal, and yes it effected 2 children. She wasn't cancelled for having children, she was cancelled because she failed to accept responsibility and her lack of regard for human life.
Here is the thing, I don't care if the ex is a bad person who cheated or stole money. You are looking for someone to be the bad guy and here is the fact: They both did wrong. They can both have done bad things and both should take responsibility for the bad things they did. And if it is proven that the ex exaggerated some of his claims then that is one of the things he needs to take reasonability but that doesn't stop her from having to take responsibility as well.
I don't care if she comes back to acting, I was even looking forward to some of her projects before this. If supporting her is what you want to do, go for it. However, you shouldn't do it by spreading misinformation and de-legitimising the actual things she did wrong.
You can support someone and hold them accountable.

I applaud you for your strength. However, If I may be so bold to say that you should not have the same expectations of everyone. I was also the victim of abuse but forgiveness is not something I'm willing to give, Rather I would want responsibility to be taken. I do not hate my abusers but they do not get more from me than I am willing to give and that includes forgiveness.
Your words are very reasonable and coming from a good place, but I think telling victims of any type they NEED to forgive can lead to a lot of self punishment.
As for this specific case, the victims did say they came forward at the time and they were ignored. (I do also think a look should be taken at educators and their responsibility and duty of care but that's another discussion) Time has passed but being held responsible in some ways shouldn't have a time limit, I believe taking responsibility can be healing for both parties in its own right. I think its down to what the victims want.
I'm glad you are in a better and safer place and that you have kept your kindness. Well wishes

She won a lawsuit about money. She didn't win the lawsuit regarding the children.

She might not be banned officially but socially she still is facing the fallout and will probably be restricted from returning to on-camera work for some time

Because the company keeps mistreating the actors that they won't stay beyond a season. This will probably focus on a side characters, like the other department's moons

Anyone got links to eng subs for the whole series?

1. They are coming out now because they know it will be taken seriously. A few cases of bullying from other stars had recently come out and were taken seriously by the companies and media. This likely gives the victims assurance that their claims won't be brushed under the rug like they previously were. By taking these claims seriously we are creating a society that supports victims into come out with these things earlier, getting help and doing it in a safer environment where the bullies have less chance of retaliation.
2.No victim comes forward for fame. Can you without the use of a search engine name a victim of any of the accused bullies? Can you name 2? And if you can, do you really think this is the type of fame they want? Being called a lair or being told to be silent about your trauma by your bullies' fans seems more like it will re-traumatise you than bring you fame.
3. Yeah THESE victims had experiences in the past. BUT they had no way of knowing if they were his only victims and if he has continued this behaviour into the present. He might have change and they might be the only victims but hes only gained more power that pushes a victim into silence in recent years. He had the money, influence, reputation and an entire coming backing him to keep any more recent victims quiet. The only way we would find out is if the victims he has the least control over, the ones granted more freedom by time come forward with it. Like I said I don't know if his behaviour continued or if he change but I do know how difficult it would be for a recent victims to come forward when he has every advantage over them.
4. We do not have the right to tell victims when it is convenient for them to tell us of their trauma. We don't get to decide or place a time limit on it. It doesn't matter if its in the past. If it was 10, 20, 50 years ago we should give people as much time as they need to deal with their trauma without the expectation they tell anyone else about it. But when and if they do tell us as a society about it, it is on us to make that as supported as possible.

Instead of shutting down the victims, telling them to be quiet, doubting if they were really a victim, we should build an environment that shows them they are believed and their will be consequences for the trauma they were put through. Build a future where victims come forward sooner so we it cane be stopped sooner.
And we should show the bullies there are consequences. So other bullies think twice and know they can't get away with being cruel. I don't think this needs to be held over his head forever, but even after all these years he needed to take responsibility because even IF he has changed he needed to acknowledge it, apologies and now he's got to show he's change. I have no doubt he will come back to acting and I welcome it but only after he experienced the consequences of his actions and made amends with his victims

Here is my take on why its important that he is held accountable beyond the needs of his own victims. It because he IS a celebrity, He has every advantage to get away with doing bad things. He has money, status, a larger influence through his public status and an entire company's support as they only make money from him if he has work so its in their best interest to make this go away.

Yes a lot of 'normal' people get away with doing the same thing that he did, but if he is held accountable and is shown to experience actual consequences those normal people will hopefully see it. They will see even with all the advantages available they will also be held accountable which will hopefully stop perpetrators doings these things themselves in the future because they know it won't be let go. It won't stop them all but even if it stops some that has value.
HOWEVER, this isn't the victims being 'smart in taking advantage that he is a celebrity'. The victims didn't decide their bully would become a celebrity, he did the acts and then made the choice to become a public figure.

On the victims of bullying's side, for him to be held accountable could give them hope for their own bullies to be held accountable. It will give them the confidence to come forward about their own situation because they know it won't be swept under the rug and dismissed.

As for his apology, there are a few stages to a good apology. 1. say sorry. 2. Take responsibility and admit what you've done and 3. says how you will do different and then do it. The 3rd one is the one that needs to be done, he needs to actively show he has changed but that can only be done AFTER having taken the responsibility. I'm not saying he can't change and that he should be held accountable for this forever but for right now he needs to experience the consequences.

I hope this makes sense and there weren't too many typos

Hey how about we don't discredit victims by sharing a conspiracy theory?
Look if you want to keep supporting him then you do you, but considering he admitted to the bullying he does need to be held accountable for it.
This might seem like a harmless theory but it does real damage to the attempts to make society, and this industry especially, more supportive of future victim.

I can't tell if you are victim blaming or agreeing that what he did was disgusting. Also you are currently falling into using 'what-about-isms'. Other people doing bad things doesn't excuse him doing bad things.
I don't want to argue. If you want to support someone without looking at their actions, go ahead, it's not gonna effect me.
But please just show some respect to not discredit and attack the victims because you're a fan of the perpetrator.

a second chance can only come after accountability. He needs to be held accountable, look critically at his behaviour and show that he's change before a second chance has been given. All 3. not just 2. Thats on him.
On us is believing the victims and supporting them to create an environment that makes it easier for victims to come forward in the future about others.
We don't have the right to decide what timeframe is 'convenient' for these victims to come forward.

I'm neither. I've seen him act in a few things but have no real feelings towards him as an actor. But the fact that you think that fan or anti fan are the only 2 options is interesting.
Im not believing one sided stories, he's admitted it and there are multiple victims coming forward. I'm saying that instead of hiding your attempts to discredit the victims in fake reasonability, we should be showing support to the victims so others will feel its easier to come forward in the future.

which part?