"Instead they will only bash the female lead because of their internal misogny"That's where you lost me !Just…
The reason why many, including me, wrote paragraphs is because people kept bashing the fl, saying she is cold, annoying, unbearable, self-absorbed... you name it. And so I guess people just wanted to defend her and make an input. At least that was my reason loll. Everything is indeed normal, some viewers just can't handle complex characters I suppose.
"Instead they will only bash the female lead because of their internal misogny"That's where you lost me !Just…
I already knew someone would have a problem with my wording thats why I carefully chose my words. I said internal misogny, not plain misogny. You may think its the same thing but there is a difference. Internalized misogyny is when women subconsciously project sexist ideas onto other women and even onto themselves. I did not try to call anyone a woman beater and so forth, that's heavy accusations that I do not throw around easily. I understand you got upset by my word choice but I never said people can't express their own opinions, I only called out their hypocrisy.
The problem with internalized misogny is that I said before, its done on a subconscious level, meaning the person isn't aware of their bias, thats why its so hard to change. Its not a gender war but an actual issue I have seen with some women, they have a double standard.
louderrrrr please bcs i am tired of people hating on women and praising men for doing the exact same thing. if…
exactlyy, im getting really tired of seeing "Wen Yi Fan this" and "Wen Yi Fan that", i dont understand how some people are so unemphatic, at least hold the same standard for both if ur gonna spew bullshit
This is no critique to either main characters but im seeing a double standard here and its a bit funny to me. Several people on here are bashing the female lead and talking about how she is too cold and distant and should explain her situation to the male lead. Some even went as far as to call he "self-absorbed", simply because she has been trying to protect her peace.
Yet I rarely see any criticism when it comes to Sang Yan, if you are gonna critique a show because of a female character, why do you not give the same energy to a male character? I could for instance mention how Sang Yan is cold when it comes to communcating verbally with Wen Yi Fan, how she sometimes will greet him and he won't even reply nor look up from his phone. Now I know why he does that since he got rejected once by her which led to him changing his demeanour. At the same time I can understand why Wen Yi Fan behaves the way she does, but that is clearly something several users on here are lacking. Instead they will only bash the female lead because of their internal misogny. I could also talk about how Sang Yan hasn't even expressed to the female lead that he still likes her after 8 years, and that she is not a mind reader to know how he feels. Therefore, its hypocritical to assume that she owes him anything when she really just isn't completely sure that he likes her. But I guess only the female lead can have flaws!
Your points make sense from the female lead’s perspective, especially if you’ve read the novel or know the…
To be completely honest, he also acts cold when it comes to the verbal part, sometimes she will say "good morning" and he won't even reply. Furthermore, after seeing each other for 8 years he hasn't expressed his feelings for her, so obviously she still believes that he hold resentment against her and doesn't even like her.
This should have honestly been expected because in the first place drama adaptations had long been prone to deviating…
I truly agree! The adaption exceeded my expectations and i’m very happy with the outcome, at the same time, the choice of added scenes can be criticised. I would be fine with it if it was a rom-com, but since it battles topics such as SA, handling the story with delicacy is really important.
as much as i love this drama i will say that there are some valid criticisms, i think the flashing scene was over the top and cliche, the actor side character is only there to make Sang Yan jealous and i find that trope really overdone
Sometimes I wonder if the viewers are watching with one eye closed. Her father died, her mother abandoned her…
This will be my last reply to you because I find it laughable that I am engaging in a conversation about a show with someone who haven't even watched said show. As I stated before, Sang Yan isn't her knight in shining armour, he is just someone that has always been around and cared for her, it's not like he is a new character that got introduced and saved her from her misery. "It tries to white wash real-life victims...", what are you even talking about? White wash?
> "...because the target audience is not here for this and don't have the time of day for all this. They just see it as annoyance and even starting to blame the FL."
>If you had actually paid attention to what most viewers think about this drama you would have found out that they appreciate what the drama is tackling and aren't here for just the "romance" as you so state. A lot of them are adults who understand heavy topics such as SA and im sure that I am not the only one who can relate to the female lead. Only a very small portion have complained and blamed the female lead and that is simply because they don't understand her character nor want to deal with a complex one.
> "Judging from the classic intolerance to the FL here and elsewhere, it's damage already done."
>No matter how a female character is portrayed in media, if someone has interal misogny they will find issues with the female character no matter how good hearted she is. That is not a fault with the show but the viewers themselves.
> "In fact, it bolsters the kind of subtle brainwashing of what a mainly male controlled media has done."
>Im sorry but the reach you are doing is unfathomable.
> "Can I ask you? Does the ML tell the FL the first time he witnesses her sleep walking?"
> First time he witnesses her sleepwalking he is unsure if she is actually sleepwalking and therefore doesn't tell her. The next time she does he tells her.
The drama isn't trying to tell the viewers that all SA victims end up happy, it's trying to show that even if someone goes through trauma there is hope at the end of the tunnel. I can't understand how you can judge a drama this harshly and completely misjudge its message. I understand that this is a heavy subject for you but the generalisation you are doing is just mental gymnastics. Do not speak for all SA victims and stop treating us strange artficats. You are pushing the idea that all hope is lost for victims and you make it sound like they will suffer throughout their entire life. Are we forbidden from engaging in romance?
Movies and shows are constantly being made and work with many complex and heavy topics, as long as they are handled with delicacy, there should be no issue. Are you also against war movies? Abuse? Poverty?
Next time you try engaging in a conversation about something specific, do your research, because having not even seen the show, all your points look weak.
Sometimes I wonder if the viewers are watching with one eye closed. Her father died, her mother abandoned her…
I expected as much, based on your first comment I could tell you haven't watched the drama because everything you said didn't at all sound like what The First Frost is trying to convey. I find it interesting and a bit hypocritical that you stress the importance of research when you are making heavy assumptions on a drama that you haven't even watched and only seen snippets of. The snippets only show a part of the whole story, just because you know "what the story is" doesn't mean you truly understand it.
Most of what you have said are assumptions, you state how it's not a deeper dive into what really goes on but it definitely is. We follow the female lead through her whole journey after being SAd and mistreated, it's not just surface level but we get to see how she struggles with day to day life because of her trauma. You say how "It's not seriously researched either" when you haven't even read the novel nor watched the show. You also state how it's demeaning to real-life victims and ill tell you now that as a SA victim I actually relate a lot to Wen Yi Fan and don't think the story is trying too hard or is undermining the severity of SA.
Just because a character has gone through SA doesn't mean they can't experience romance. The fact that romance is part of the genre is what makes it more special in my opinion, especially when we talk about SA. Because many SA victims struggle with intimacy after being traumatised, they have a hard time loving someone. This is what the show is about, it's not trying to portray the male lead a saviour, he is just someone who can help the female lead heal since she has been neglected her whole life and never had anyone to rely on. How is that unrealistic in any way?
You say that it's going to be problematic to a wider audience here, when in reality, you are the only one i've seen so far that had an issue, when you haven't even watched the show. The storyline hasn't failed at all and it's actually doing very well.
> "There is also the dated idea that she is a target because she's just too beautiful when this is so far from the truth in real life. The viewers' impatience or even disbelief at how many times she's a victim lays on the fact that this storyline is done so badly as a plot device...."
>It's not unrealistic or even a false idea that she is a target because she is beautiful, it's actually very realistic. The show isn't trying to show that unattractive women can't get harassed, it's simply showing the story of a beautiful woman being a victim. You mention how her being a victim several times means it's a bad plot device, when in reality, if you actually had "researched" as you so much stress about, you would have known that women who get SA are more likely to be assaulted again.
The First Frost isn't trying to convey that "love conquers all", it's trying to show that it's okay to open up to people, to lean on someone and to not suppress everything. It takes us on Wen Yi Fan's healing journey, how she slowly, but steadily, lets light into her dark world.
Sometimes I wonder if the viewers are watching with one eye closed. Her father died, her mother abandoned her…
I didn't try to put words in your mouth, I only said that you "make it SEEM" like it's her fault. But calling her "very frustrating" was just odd to me considering everything she went through. But yes obviously, he has a lot of patience, but I assure you that she does love him, and regrets deeply the pain she caused him
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The problem with internalized misogny is that I said before, its done on a subconscious level, meaning the person isn't aware of their bias, thats why its so hard to change. Its not a gender war but an actual issue I have seen with some women, they have a double standard.
Yet I rarely see any criticism when it comes to Sang Yan, if you are gonna critique a show because of a female character, why do you not give the same energy to a male character? I could for instance mention how Sang Yan is cold when it comes to communcating verbally with Wen Yi Fan, how she sometimes will greet him and he won't even reply nor look up from his phone. Now I know why he does that since he got rejected once by her which led to him changing his demeanour. At the same time I can understand why Wen Yi Fan behaves the way she does, but that is clearly something several users on here are lacking. Instead they will only bash the female lead because of their internal misogny. I could also talk about how Sang Yan hasn't even expressed to the female lead that he still likes her after 8 years, and that she is not a mind reader to know how he feels. Therefore, its hypocritical to assume that she owes him anything when she really just isn't completely sure that he likes her. But I guess only the female lead can have flaws!
putting that aside, everything else is good
> "...because the target audience is not here for this and don't have the time of day for all this. They just see it as annoyance and even starting to blame the FL."
>If you had actually paid attention to what most viewers think about this drama you would have found out that they appreciate what the drama is tackling and aren't here for just the "romance" as you so state. A lot of them are adults who understand heavy topics such as SA and im sure that I am not the only one who can relate to the female lead. Only a very small portion have complained and blamed the female lead and that is simply because they don't understand her character nor want to deal with a complex one.
> "Judging from the classic intolerance to the FL here and elsewhere, it's damage already done."
>No matter how a female character is portrayed in media, if someone has interal misogny they will find issues with the female character no matter how good hearted she is. That is not a fault with the show but the viewers themselves.
> "In fact, it bolsters the kind of subtle brainwashing of what a mainly male controlled media has done."
>Im sorry but the reach you are doing is unfathomable.
> "Can I ask you? Does the ML tell the FL the first time he witnesses her sleep walking?"
> First time he witnesses her sleepwalking he is unsure if she is actually sleepwalking and therefore doesn't tell her. The next time she does he tells her.
The drama isn't trying to tell the viewers that all SA victims end up happy, it's trying to show that even if someone goes through trauma there is hope at the end of the tunnel. I can't understand how you can judge a drama this harshly and completely misjudge its message. I understand that this is a heavy subject for you but the generalisation you are doing is just mental gymnastics. Do not speak for all SA victims and stop treating us strange artficats. You are pushing the idea that all hope is lost for victims and you make it sound like they will suffer throughout their entire life. Are we forbidden from engaging in romance?
Movies and shows are constantly being made and work with many complex and heavy topics, as long as they are handled with delicacy, there should be no issue. Are you also against war movies? Abuse? Poverty?
Next time you try engaging in a conversation about something specific, do your research, because having not even seen the show, all your points look weak.
Have a good day.
Most of what you have said are assumptions, you state how it's not a deeper dive into what really goes on but it definitely is. We follow the female lead through her whole journey after being SAd and mistreated, it's not just surface level but we get to see how she struggles with day to day life because of her trauma. You say how "It's not seriously researched either" when you haven't even read the novel nor watched the show. You also state how it's demeaning to real-life victims and ill tell you now that as a SA victim I actually relate a lot to Wen Yi Fan and don't think the story is trying too hard or is undermining the severity of SA.
Just because a character has gone through SA doesn't mean they can't experience romance. The fact that romance is part of the genre is what makes it more special in my opinion, especially when we talk about SA. Because many SA victims struggle with intimacy after being traumatised, they have a hard time loving someone. This is what the show is about, it's not trying to portray the male lead a saviour, he is just someone who can help the female lead heal since she has been neglected her whole life and never had anyone to rely on. How is that unrealistic in any way?
You say that it's going to be problematic to a wider audience here, when in reality, you are the only one i've seen so far that had an issue, when you haven't even watched the show. The storyline hasn't failed at all and it's actually doing very well.
> "There is also the dated idea that she is a target because she's just too beautiful when this is so far from the truth in real life. The viewers' impatience or even disbelief at how many times she's a victim lays on the fact that this storyline is done so badly as a plot device...."
>It's not unrealistic or even a false idea that she is a target because she is beautiful, it's actually very realistic. The show isn't trying to show that unattractive women can't get harassed, it's simply showing the story of a beautiful woman being a victim. You mention how her being a victim several times means it's a bad plot device, when in reality, if you actually had "researched" as you so much stress about, you would have known that women who get SA are more likely to be assaulted again.
The First Frost isn't trying to convey that "love conquers all", it's trying to show that it's okay to open up to people, to lean on someone and to not suppress everything. It takes us on Wen Yi Fan's healing journey, how she slowly, but steadily, lets light into her dark world.