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I don't think she easily believed it. I think she had a lot of conflicting emotions in that scene, but she's also reacting in front of Talay. Not many people would be able to process and respond accurately in a situation like that

🤭 Pfft

Less like a circle and more like "two steps forward, one step back".

Character development doesn't happen easily, I guess. A character (like a person) can learn a lesson one day and still revert to previous feelings/behavior the next day. It is through repetition that most lessons are learned. To our benefit, the show acknowledges this and ALSO keeps the drama hella dramatic so we can understand why Gorya reverts (she's influenced by Talay's manipulation) and also why learning the lesson this time will be the time that sticks (she will see the mistake in trusting Talay over Thyme).

I agree. The show was vague about that so it can really go either way imo

Lol. I like your comment but I disagree that it's Noble Idiocy (she doesn't push him away "for his own good" as much as for BOTH of their own good) and I don't think Thyme is toxic-possessive. In episode 10 he let's his emotions overcome him briefly and really wants to know who Talay is and who Talay is to Gorya, but that's kind of the only instance of any behavior like that I can think of (versus the opposite behavior- Thyme giving Ren's handkerchief back was one of the best moments when I thought, "damn show, way to make this ML root-able instead of toxic")

This is explicitely addressed in the episode: Gorya outright states that she knows that she is regressing. The show is acknowledging that people don't move forward in a linear manner. They learn a lesson and move forward, but things also affect them (a manipulating "friend") and they move backwards, before moving forward again.

The fact that you are thinking about this aspect of the character is good! It is interesting and I wouldn't have put much thought into it without reading your comment first. But you seem to think it reflects a mistake in the characterization, which isn't the case.

To be a little more blunt. It's like if there was a purple moon in the show, and a character literally said, "hey look! A purple moon" and then after the show someone came to the forum to say they messed up the color of the moon, rather than discussing WHY they made the moon purple.

Oh I don't think filler scenes help anyone perceive characters feelings more, so we might be talking about different things there.

To talk to one of your examples though:

-> Not enough time for Gorya to accept Thyme before they broke up <-

So many character decisions, like Gorya breaking up with Thyme, are not intended to be clear cut. It is in this ambiguity that we have a chance to empathize and process why these characters behave the way they do.

We have to sit with and think about how much Gorya even liked Thyme, whether she pushed him away because she feels self-conscious or truly just feels physically/emotionally drained (or both!), what we think Thyme assumes Gorya is feeling (he definitely doesn't know that she cries for him 😩), what else is happening to Gorya at the same time that affects the circumstances (family is separated) etc etc etc.

With a straightforward plot-by-numbers, it looks more like this:

FL and ML like each other. Fiancee comes. FL is a Noble Idiot to manufacture drama. FL and ML overcome the drama and reaffirm that they like each other.

A viewer might feel completely certain about each character's feelings in the rote version, but because it is handed to us on a platter, we don't have a lot of room for deeper discussion, and we won't have any cause to wrestle with complex truths of human emotions and behaviors.

Ugh it's gonna be sooooo gooooooood

Oh yeah! And then when MJ was teasing Kavin about Kaning too.

I'm thinking they wanted to tease us as well, a little bit. They know we want more k+k but I think we're gonna have to wait till the show can give more focus to them. I agree about the flashback of giving the bouquet.

Ugh my heart ❤

I feel their romantic moments so much more deeply than I ever could have expected.

And these moments don't feel exactly subtle to me either. They impact me so much as they are happening that I find it confusing when other people seem to just... miss them? Misattribute the feelings? I'm trying not to pass judgment since we all watch things differently. It just confuses me lol

Agreed.

I'd also like to add that there is an abundance of fluffy romance (Including Meteor Garden and BOF lol) that we can watch to satisfy that itch, but there are SO few dramas of this caliber to turn to.

For me, quality matters more than quantity. Since I know these characters so well, small moments like Gorya laughing at Thyme's mispronouncions (when she always used to get angry at him for it) put a cheesy grin on my face more than half an episode of filler fan service scenes in a drama with 2 dimensional characters and a boring plot.

Truly none of this reflect the show as I see it

1. Gorya mentioned how well suited L+T are when she was trying to push him away. But I don't recall any other times.

2. Gorya wouldn't be telling Thyme how much she loves him because they weren't at that stage in their relationship.

3. Gorya didn't do anything to force Thyme to go to Lita. Hell, he had to sneak out of his house to get to her even lol.

4. "Traded his love"? This would be apt if she had accepted his mom's money, or if she told Lita, "you can have him". But she did neither of those things.

Truly, I don't know why you and others have put Thyme's actions on Gorya's shoulders. She didn't act unreasonably. Her behavior is not toxic. She told Thyme things would be easier if he could love Lita, which is an objective truth, and that was the extent of it. 

That said, since our impressions and memories of the show seems so radically different, it feels like we may continue to talk past each other.

"Rather crave more than be bored"

💯💯💯

Haha, well it worked out well. Those 3 are humorous but easily overused.

At the end of episode 8 at Thyme's birthday party, in front of all the cameras, Thyme's mother announced his engagement to Lita.

If you believe Thyme went to Lita as a rebound (could be; worth discussing imo) then you are giving Thyme the credit for making the decision himself. Which doesn't fit with your initial post about Gorya "forcing" the relationship on Thyme.

I don't follow this take.

Gorya does not try to matchmake them. The *match has been made*. It's on the news even.

All Gorya says is that it would be easier if Thyme could love Lita (and I think she means easier for both of them). She doesn't threaten him or make a public declaration that Thyme is with Lita, or literally do anything that could be construed as "forcing him to date her".

It is Thyme who chooses to go to Lita and ask to date, and your take assumes that it wasn't his decision, which removes his agency in the decision making. He *chooses* to go to Lita.

Oh no lol! 😂

Another great decision from the writers:

The trio of bitches are not over played.

I was wondering why we didn't see the lead bitch in the last few interactions with Gorya (she was on video call or on the phone with the others). But when she came back this episode I was so ready for her reintroduction. By keeping her out of sight for a while, it feels fresh to have her back on screen picking at Gorya's wound (and also kinda becoming a slightly better person in spite of herself)

Absolutely lol. BOF was so bloated with nothing. There's a reason most kdrama and cdrama viewers lean heavily on the 10 second skip button and 2x speed. F4 is amazingly tight storytelling. It keeps amazing me with how seamlessly it cut out the unnecessary slack and just focus on character development and story themes. A++

Regarding your first paragraph:

Gorya broke down just minutes before when Lita came to her. And now Gorya is in school. If she had shed a tear in front of a group of people at school, it would be hella out of character.

For me, I understand gorya well enough now to empathize HARD with her even when she is acting stoic (which is her go-to state) so that moment made my heart drop for her.