Do many people feel this way? I feel the opposite.
This show lacks any filler and I love it. The narrative is so tight and that's part of what keeps me feeling like they're blowing my mind each episode. More episodes for more episodes' sake would give us Meteor Garden 2018 lol.
Even most Kdramas should really be whittled down to 12 episodes imo.
are you talking about the ACTING or the plot points/dialogue? i think you’re more talking about what the writers…
It's absolutely possible you just do find the lines cringy and there's nothing deeper there, however, it is also pretty typical for people to laugh as a method of deflecting. If you're laughing during emotional moments, it might be less about the lines themselves, or the delivery of the lines, than it is about you not connecting to the emotions, or not wanting to connect to them.
This is a little bit me projecting, by the way. When I was younger, I found most emotional scenes cringy and it absolutely had everything to do with the fact that I wasn't prepared to accept/reflect on the emotions honestly.
Some of the movies and dramas I find most compelling and moving now, would have definitely been the kind of thing I wouldn't have connected to in the past because of this.
I love every scene in this episode,- Thyme getting jelaous with Ren hugging Gorya is to prove that he trully love…
I feel compelled to shout DISAGREE to your first point. This show has taken so so so much of the toxicity out of their relationship, and your first point seems to add some back in, so I want to argue a little against it...
Thyme's jealousy absolutely didn't do anything to prove his love for Gorya and had everything to do with his feelings of rejection and self-loathing.
The only moment to me where he showed he truly loved her was at the END of the fight, when he overcame his insecurities and *admitted* how much he loves her.
Huh, you have such radically different feelings from the majority of commenters. Want to explore them more fully?For…
It's okay to disagree btw! No need to feel like I'll take that negatively :)
Your comment about "cliche is like predictability" I took to mean that because the FL falls for the ML, it reduces their story to a cliche. Maybe you meant something more than this, but that's the position I'm coming from for the next part....
One of the most amazing things about this drama to me is how *unpredictable* it is in its execution. I have seen many of the other versions and I read the manga and I know the story beats, but oh boy! I cannot see the WAY this show gives them to us coming at all.
The link below is to an amazing discussion of a scene (Haha+Thyme). It is the perfect example to describe what I mean, because it isn't just analyzing the characters, it also contrasts the scene with previous versions AND audience expectations for the story beat.
Since you like the show enough to watch, I wonder if you'd enjoy the show a lot more if you listened to some deep dives into the story (a lot of people here keep mentioning a podcast(?) called Wit and Folly, for instance) where you can get a better understanding of all the characters, their development and their motivations, etc.
More often than not, having deeper understanding for art will lead to better appreciation of it, so you might check it out! :)
Haha as much as I love the discussions of symbolism and as much as I know so much thought is going into this production....…
🤷♀️ could be. I'd absolutely go with the symbolism if it was a chinese production and they used ducks (since that's common), but as for pigeons? Dunno. They're just sky rats that exist in practically all cities.
Like, geese also mate for life but it would be weird for a pair to waddle up and honk at Gorya just because that's true.
Haha as much as I love the discussions of symbolism and as much as I know so much thought is going into this production....…
Oh absolutely! I'm a firm believer in art being more than simply the intention behind it anyways, so I loved your comment.
You reminded me about one of my classmates in English class who, after reading the poem Dover Beach, then suggested that it might be about the storming of the beaches at Normandy. My teacher nodded his head and looked super thoughtful and said, "that's a really great connection and I think it has a lot of merit. Except the poem was written 100 years earlier." It was one of my favorite moments in class because it helped me loosen up when it came to speculating about something's 'meaning'.
So I really hope I didn't come across like I was trying to shut down your speculation.
Mixed on this episode. Interactions between f4 boys were great. But the way they didn't stop Thyme from severely…
Thinking on this a little more...
When MJ and Kavin asked Ren to go after Thyme, he deliberately went the other way instead. So it kind of seemed like Ren wasn't checking on the victim so much to make sure he was okay, but more as a contrast to going and checking up on Thyme.
It reminds me of the previous dispute between Ren and Thyme, where Ren talked about how it is always him making the first move (hence why the airport scene showing Thyme apologizing was such a big character moment for Thyme) and that he wasn't going to do it anymore.
Ugh you know I loved the episode and I'm still on board the ship but you are not wrong. This story is so wildly…
I'm not sure I feel this way fully, but....
It doesn't hurt to show that although Thyme was at his nadir, he did not assault Gorya. Nearly assaulting her, though? Yeah, and I won't lie and pretend it wasn't extremely bad. But I've always felt about their budding relationship, "sure he's nice to you when he likes you, but what happens if he gets mad, Gorya? Can you trust that he won't turn that violence toward you?" so it feels a bit like I can feel more confident about their relationship going forward without wrestling with that underlying discomfort.
Oh wow, I thought they handled that moment really well actually. The way Thyme was clearly about to go off on…
Hmm...on the surface, yeah, they were discussing who is in or out of the friend group, but underlying it all seemed to be that Gorya was really afraid that she was the reason for Thyme's explosion.
Also, I already saw her get mad at Thyme for hitting Tesla. We know how she feels about him hitting people. He knows how she feels about it too. As the audience, I don't feel the need to hear her say it every time to believe she still feels that way, so I didn't think less of her for not bringing it up.
The quality of this drama is a solid 10/10. I haven't seen anything so crisp and clear and just pleasing to the…
Huh, you have such radically different feelings from the majority of commenters. Want to explore them more fully?
For the acting, well, I think that's too subjective to go deeper on probably.
But about feeling like none of them are likable and like you haven't seen development with their characters yet? This is the opposite of how I feel. Every episode I feel like we get a clearer picture of each F4 member, and it makes me like them so much.
MJ is such a mother hen to the rest, and his loyalty and deep affection for their friendship melts my heart. I will take any and every scene with MJ that I can, and I'll be thankful for every crumb.
Kavin is so clear eyed about each situation and he analyzes everything pretty well, yet we've seen that he can still have his mind changed, like when Kaning called him out for going behind his friend's back.
Ren, especially this episode, really showed that he does have feelings for Gorya and yet he's more interested in helping Gorya and Thyme admit their feelings to e.each other than pushing his own agenda. Such a good friend!
Thyme... oh Thyme... this boy has so much happening beneath the surface stemming from his family situation that I can't help but hurt for him, and root for him too. He has made a lot of missteps, and a lot of his behavior is patently not good, but none of that behavior stems from malice. And time and again he shows us that he doesn't even like that version of himself either and he's trying so hard to become a better version. Like he said in the episode, to become someone who deserves Gorya. <3
Gorya has never been a damsel in distress. Even when she is actually in need of saving, she has complete agency and the scene exists for so many other reasons than simply "girl needs rescue", so to me it never devolved into cliche.
Mixed on this episode. Interactions between f4 boys were great. But the way they didn't stop Thyme from severely…
Oh wow, I thought they handled that moment really well actually. The way Thyme was clearly about to go off on MJ and the way Kavin and MJ knew so well how the cameras are pointed at them and the only thing they can do is wait out the situation seemed believable for their characters. I don't think pulling Thyme back would have de-escalated the situation at all.
As for Gorya caring about having caused a misunderstanding between Thyme and Ren rather than the bully who previously assaulted her.... hmm, I didn't really feel the need for her to go check up on the boy tbh.
I was really curious about the scene where Ren was about to kiss Gorya but then she remembered Thyme and saw pigeons…
Haha as much as I love the discussions of symbolism and as much as I know so much thought is going into this production.... that's a little too far for me to follow.
I think this might be one of those 'the curtains are blue' moments. (as in, maybe they simply used pigeons because they're outside of a mall and no other bird would make sense)
But I'd still give you an A if you were writing an analysis for an English class paper.
I know that I am not alone with my love for MJ and this episode definitely delivers.
Watching him try so so hard to keep F4 together and help shepherd all his friends into one place where they can finally talk it out was so sweet and heartwarming. And when they do FINALLY get together and Thyme punches him.... oh hell no. My boy just breaks for a moment and lets out all that frustration.
It was a great way to set them all up for the big brawl. Watching a whole episode of MJ trying so hard while everyone around him is acting all moody and not listening (also, "take Kavin on a break to where Gorya is" cracked me up) was probably the best way to make me believe he'd take part in that fight. It was a great fight too.
They're all so great and I'm happy for all the time spent with each and every one of them, but I can't help but love MJ the most. <3 <3 <3
This show lacks any filler and I love it. The narrative is so tight and that's part of what keeps me feeling like they're blowing my mind each episode. More episodes for more episodes' sake would give us Meteor Garden 2018 lol.
Even most Kdramas should really be whittled down to 12 episodes imo.
This is a little bit me projecting, by the way. When I was younger, I found most emotional scenes cringy and it absolutely had everything to do with the fact that I wasn't prepared to accept/reflect on the emotions honestly.
Some of the movies and dramas I find most compelling and moving now, would have definitely been the kind of thing I wouldn't have connected to in the past because of this.
Thyme's jealousy absolutely didn't do anything to prove his love for Gorya and had everything to do with his feelings of rejection and self-loathing.
The only moment to me where he showed he truly loved her was at the END of the fight, when he overcame his insecurities and *admitted* how much he loves her.
Your comment about "cliche is like predictability" I took to mean that because the FL falls for the ML, it reduces their story to a cliche. Maybe you meant something more than this, but that's the position I'm coming from for the next part....
One of the most amazing things about this drama to me is how *unpredictable* it is in its execution. I have seen many of the other versions and I read the manga and I know the story beats, but oh boy! I cannot see the WAY this show gives them to us coming at all.
The link below is to an amazing discussion of a scene (Haha+Thyme). It is the perfect example to describe what I mean, because it isn't just analyzing the characters, it also contrasts the scene with previous versions AND audience expectations for the story beat.
https://twitter.com/subway_dates/status/1485132857135669248?s=20&t=kGxXMlyo8gKY3p4W3p6AYw
Since you like the show enough to watch, I wonder if you'd enjoy the show a lot more if you listened to some deep dives into the story (a lot of people here keep mentioning a podcast(?) called Wit and Folly, for instance) where you can get a better understanding of all the characters, their development and their motivations, etc.
More often than not, having deeper understanding for art will lead to better appreciation of it, so you might check it out! :)
You we're broken out of the story because of it, though, so I think that the narrative just didn't land for you like it did for me.
Like, geese also mate for life but it would be weird for a pair to waddle up and honk at Gorya just because that's true.
"Kavin, take a break... Kaning, take Kavin on a break to where Ren is" hahahaha. A+++ move MJ.
The reason to ship Kavin and Kaning is absolutely that he sees the real her.
You reminded me about one of my classmates in English class who, after reading the poem Dover Beach, then suggested that it might be about the storming of the beaches at Normandy. My teacher nodded his head and looked super thoughtful and said, "that's a really great connection and I think it has a lot of merit. Except the poem was written 100 years earlier." It was one of my favorite moments in class because it helped me loosen up when it came to speculating about something's 'meaning'.
So I really hope I didn't come across like I was trying to shut down your speculation.
When MJ and Kavin asked Ren to go after Thyme, he deliberately went the other way instead. So it kind of seemed like Ren wasn't checking on the victim so much to make sure he was okay, but more as a contrast to going and checking up on Thyme.
It reminds me of the previous dispute between Ren and Thyme, where Ren talked about how it is always him making the first move (hence why the airport scene showing Thyme apologizing was such a big character moment for Thyme) and that he wasn't going to do it anymore.
It doesn't hurt to show that although Thyme was at his nadir, he did not assault Gorya. Nearly assaulting her, though? Yeah, and I won't lie and pretend it wasn't extremely bad. But I've always felt about their budding relationship, "sure he's nice to you when he likes you, but what happens if he gets mad, Gorya? Can you trust that he won't turn that violence toward you?" so it feels a bit like I can feel more confident about their relationship going forward without wrestling with that underlying discomfort.
Also, I already saw her get mad at Thyme for hitting Tesla. We know how she feels about him hitting people. He knows how she feels about it too. As the audience, I don't feel the need to hear her say it every time to believe she still feels that way, so I didn't think less of her for not bringing it up.
For the acting, well, I think that's too subjective to go deeper on probably.
But about feeling like none of them are likable and like you haven't seen development with their characters yet? This is the opposite of how I feel. Every episode I feel like we get a clearer picture of each F4 member, and it makes me like them so much.
MJ is such a mother hen to the rest, and his loyalty and deep affection for their friendship melts my heart. I will take any and every scene with MJ that I can, and I'll be thankful for every crumb.
Kavin is so clear eyed about each situation and he analyzes everything pretty well, yet we've seen that he can still have his mind changed, like when Kaning called him out for going behind his friend's back.
Ren, especially this episode, really showed that he does have feelings for Gorya and yet he's more interested in helping Gorya and Thyme admit their feelings to e.each other than pushing his own agenda. Such a good friend!
Thyme... oh Thyme... this boy has so much happening beneath the surface stemming from his family situation that I can't help but hurt for him, and root for him too. He has made a lot of missteps, and a lot of his behavior is patently not good, but none of that behavior stems from malice. And time and again he shows us that he doesn't even like that version of himself either and he's trying so hard to become a better version. Like he said in the episode, to become someone who deserves Gorya. <3
Gorya has never been a damsel in distress. Even when she is actually in need of saving, she has complete agency and the scene exists for so many other reasons than simply "girl needs rescue", so to me it never devolved into cliche.
As for Gorya caring about having caused a misunderstanding between Thyme and Ren rather than the bully who previously assaulted her.... hmm, I didn't really feel the need for her to go check up on the boy tbh.
It fits way better with Thyme's self-loathing.
I think this might be one of those 'the curtains are blue' moments. (as in, maybe they simply used pigeons because they're outside of a mall and no other bird would make sense)
But I'd still give you an A if you were writing an analysis for an English class paper.
Watching him try so so hard to keep F4 together and help shepherd all his friends into one place where they can finally talk it out was so sweet and heartwarming. And when they do FINALLY get together and Thyme punches him.... oh hell no. My boy just breaks for a moment and lets out all that frustration.
It was a great way to set them all up for the big brawl. Watching a whole episode of MJ trying so hard while everyone around him is acting all moody and not listening (also, "take Kavin on a break to where Gorya is" cracked me up) was probably the best way to make me believe he'd take part in that fight. It was a great fight too.
They're all so great and I'm happy for all the time spent with each and every one of them, but I can't help but love MJ the most. <3 <3 <3