The music is not romantic though. People are so quick to jump to conclusions without sufficient understanding…
I agree with MarieAli.
In an earlier thread, someone was talking about how they really didn't like that Gorya didn't tell Thyme off for beating the other student, whereas I felt like I've already seen Gorya tell Thyme off for hitting Tesla so I didn't need to see it again. It's redundant to show it every time (and it's likely to make us bored or annoyed if done too often). We get it. Thyme gets it. It's a waste of storytelling to show us things we can infer from past behavior (or from Thyme's behavior at the end of the episode).
The wait seriously hurts me I promised myself I wouldn't watch this because it only aired once a week and now…
You made the right decision. Binging at the end will be half the experience of watching as they air and taking your time to feel allllll the feelings between each episode.
After watching too many BLS I'm not able to watch any straight drama but like this one is catching my eye ahhhh…
I'm also curious about BeLight's questions to you.
Actually, I've seen a few people who have made a similar comment about how they pretty much exclusively watch BL so, for anyone else who feels this way, if you have any insight as to why you prefer BL, I'd be very interested in your perspective.
The music is not romantic though. People are so quick to jump to conclusions without sufficient understanding…
Where you saw a problem with Gorya feeling guilty and apologizing to Thyme, I saw it as closure of their misunderstanding. Now, if she had apologized for hugging Ren then I would've been pissed, don't get me wrong.
I don't think there's completion to Thyme's bullying storyline yet, so I'm not in a rush to see him fully understand himself or the ramifications of his actions. Instead, I'm looking forward to more scenes as he learns to process it all more fully.
The music is not romantic though. People are so quick to jump to conclusions without sufficient understanding…
I truly lack confidence talking about music and how it is employed, but to me the song sounded more lamenting rather than romantic. Yet I've seen a few different people bring it up in this forum like it was an understood-to-be-romantic music cue.. ? I'm glad you also didn't feel like it was romantic.
I've been trying hard to reflect on whether I'm giving the show more credit than it is due, yet I just haven't been convinced by the criticisms of episode 7 to believe that is the case.
Showing something does not mean glorifying it; depiction is not endorsement. I saw a fantastic tweet the other day that really exemplifies this (and cracked me up): "So I watched Jaws for the first time and couldn't last 20 minutes. It is straight-up glorifying sharks eating people." Just because F4T has both bullying and romance, does not mean it is romanticizing bullying.
Without even digging into whether episode 7 did things like have "romantic music cues" after Thyme walked out (I don't know the lyrics and I'm not great with music so I don't feel like I can speak to this anyway) or whether Gorya should have made Thyme repent before she acted on her feelings for him, etc. etc.. I think it's important to remember that it's only episode 7 of 16.
This show has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that bullying is not just window dressing or character flavor, it's commentary. And that commentary is not yet complete. Those of us who've seen other versions knows what's likely coming for Thyme, and I feel confident that the story arc will encompass the events and character development of episode 7.
Has the ML in any version ever proclaimed he's calling off the red-cards? I don't think so. The red-cards are…
Taking your point a little further... when the kidnapping plot happens, it will make it that much more impactful. Thyme has actively renounced this past version of himself, yet it is the new version that will bear the brunt of past Thyme's crimes. Deservedly.
I can't stand bullying. I don't know if I should watch thisHow are they going to justify in the end that the girl…
Try searching the comment thread for the word "metaphor" and see if you can find lilili's discussion about viewing the show through a different lens than simply "bullied girl falls for bully".
That said, if you have difficulty seeing beyond the face of things and you don't like watching bullying, then this probably isn't the show for you.
Gorya shoving thyme into that room is what i didn't understand he said ren is out of f4 and gave back phone and…
I recommend reading MarieAli's post from 2 days ago as it is a really fantastic discussion of this scene and you might like it. I found the comment by searching the word "cage" btw.
So I see people saying that That Scene proves that Thyme would never hurt Gorya but I interpret it differently.…
Ah, I prefer this to how I had been seeing it. Thanks.
Though, previously I still wasn't thinking so much along the lines of the scene *proving* Thyme would never hurt Gorya (and absolutely NOT proving anything about how much he loves her - that's a gross take if anyone has it).
More like it was showing us what we know about Thyme... that he's dangerous and a threat. And yet, not an irredeemable threat. He didn't tear her clothes, he didn't slam his hand in the wall behind her (is it me? I see that as worse than raising his fist since the motion is completed... might just be me tho) and he doesn't try to coerce her into liking him. I appreciated how scary and unbridled they made Thyme in this scene without making it seem like he was on the verge of sexually assaulting her, unlike so many other versions of the ML.
Someone also pointed out how the scene mirrors Hana's breakdown, and I liked that take as well. That Thyme wants so much to hear what he wants to hear "say you hate Ren say it say it" but the violence is ultimately to the point of self-destruction.
Thinking about your comment a little more... I wonder what country has university students who "take full blame…
Oh, I hope you don't feel like I was arguing and trying to get you to think I was right. I was just interested in the discussion topic lol.
As for the part where you say, "in a school setting you have home room teachers that ideally notice and care if something is wrong"
This is actually a major commentary in F4T. The teachers DO notice and SHOULD do something to protect the students, but they can't push back against the power structure in place. It's all the more damning BECAUSE these are high school kids they aren't protecting.
Scenes of note: 1. When Gorya points out to Hana during her explanation of the red card game that the teachers don't do anything to stop it 2. When Kaning's bike is lit on fire and Gorya is attacked and a teacher calls for the bullies to stop or she'll call security, only to falter when the bullies make it clear that she'd be going against the richest, most powerful family in the school 3. When Tia tries to negotiate with the school administrators and they make it clear that they care nothing for the injured student and everything about the clip of Thyme attacking him getting out and making the school look bad.
I'm at ep5 and with every version I think Boys Over Flowers should be set in university. I think that would make…
Thinking about your comment a little more...
I wonder what country has university students who "take full blame when they are proven guilty with any kind of criminal charges"? In America, at least, over and over again it is shown that this isn't the case at all. Easily coming to mind is Brock Turner (I actually couldn't remember his name and just googled "college rapist" - easy to find) because this guy's name is synonymous with "slap on the wrist".
The same social problems in the high school in F4 exist everywhere. The high school setting in F4 isn't about "realism" so much as it is a microcosm of the world-at-large. College might even be a little less realistic in that sense because there's less of a reason for everyone to interact with each other so much (different majors, different schedules, larger campus etc.)
I have a lot of confusion around the comments about how "bullies don't change" and how it's a bad romance because no girl should want to date someone who was a bully....
But, like, the socioeconomic part gets to me WAAAY more than the bullying tbh. The biggest difficulty I have in ANY chaebol drama is absolutely the whole "love overcomes the sociopathy of riches" fantasy.
At least Thyme's bullying is a manifestation of that sociopathy, and so his arc of overcoming that part of him makes for really good drama and storytelling (even if total fantasy).
Huh, you have such radically different feelings from the majority of commenters. Want to explore them more fully?For…
Lol, I definitely wouldn't call myself of the franchise. Part of the magic of F4T is how it took such problematic and cheesy source material and made it hella deep with such layered characters and storytelling.
I'm watching F4T with my partner and making him watch clips from the Korean and Chinese versions so he can see some of the contrast in quality between them haha
In an earlier thread, someone was talking about how they really didn't like that Gorya didn't tell Thyme off for beating the other student, whereas I felt like I've already seen Gorya tell Thyme off for hitting Tesla so I didn't need to see it again. It's redundant to show it every time (and it's likely to make us bored or annoyed if done too often). We get it. Thyme gets it. It's a waste of storytelling to show us things we can infer from past behavior (or from Thyme's behavior at the end of the episode).
Actually, I've seen a few people who have made a similar comment about how they pretty much exclusively watch BL so, for anyone else who feels this way, if you have any insight as to why you prefer BL, I'd be very interested in your perspective.
I don't think there's completion to Thyme's bullying storyline yet, so I'm not in a rush to see him fully understand himself or the ramifications of his actions. Instead, I'm looking forward to more scenes as he learns to process it all more fully.
@lilili Thank you for the link!
Showing something does not mean glorifying it; depiction is not endorsement. I saw a fantastic tweet the other day that really exemplifies this (and cracked me up): "So I watched Jaws for the first time and couldn't last 20 minutes. It is straight-up glorifying sharks eating people." Just because F4T has both bullying and romance, does not mean it is romanticizing bullying.
Without even digging into whether episode 7 did things like have "romantic music cues" after Thyme walked out (I don't know the lyrics and I'm not great with music so I don't feel like I can speak to this anyway) or whether Gorya should have made Thyme repent before she acted on her feelings for him, etc. etc.. I think it's important to remember that it's only episode 7 of 16.
This show has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that bullying is not just window dressing or character flavor, it's commentary. And that commentary is not yet complete. Those of us who've seen other versions knows what's likely coming for Thyme, and I feel confident that the story arc will encompass the events and character development of episode 7.
That said, if you have difficulty seeing beyond the face of things and you don't like watching bullying, then this probably isn't the show for you.
Though, previously I still wasn't thinking so much along the lines of the scene *proving* Thyme would never hurt Gorya (and absolutely NOT proving anything about how much he loves her - that's a gross take if anyone has it).
More like it was showing us what we know about Thyme... that he's dangerous and a threat. And yet, not an irredeemable threat. He didn't tear her clothes, he didn't slam his hand in the wall behind her (is it me? I see that as worse than raising his fist since the motion is completed... might just be me tho) and he doesn't try to coerce her into liking him. I appreciated how scary and unbridled they made Thyme in this scene without making it seem like he was on the verge of sexually assaulting her, unlike so many other versions of the ML.
Someone also pointed out how the scene mirrors Hana's breakdown, and I liked that take as well. That Thyme wants so much to hear what he wants to hear "say you hate Ren say it say it" but the violence is ultimately to the point of self-destruction.
As for the part where you say, "in a school setting you have home room teachers that ideally notice and care if something is wrong"
This is actually a major commentary in F4T. The teachers DO notice and SHOULD do something to protect the students, but they can't push back against the power structure in place. It's all the more damning BECAUSE these are high school kids they aren't protecting.
Scenes of note:
1. When Gorya points out to Hana during her explanation of the red card game that the teachers don't do anything to stop it
2. When Kaning's bike is lit on fire and Gorya is attacked and a teacher calls for the bullies to stop or she'll call security, only to falter when the bullies make it clear that she'd be going against the richest, most powerful family in the school
3. When Tia tries to negotiate with the school administrators and they make it clear that they care nothing for the injured student and everything about the clip of Thyme attacking him getting out and making the school look bad.
I wonder what country has university students who "take full blame when they are proven guilty with any kind of criminal charges"? In America, at least, over and over again it is shown that this isn't the case at all. Easily coming to mind is Brock Turner (I actually couldn't remember his name and just googled "college rapist" - easy to find) because this guy's name is synonymous with "slap on the wrist".
The same social problems in the high school in F4 exist everywhere. The high school setting in F4 isn't about "realism" so much as it is a microcosm of the world-at-large. College might even be a little less realistic in that sense because there's less of a reason for everyone to interact with each other so much (different majors, different schedules, larger campus etc.)
But, like, the socioeconomic part gets to me WAAAY more than the bullying tbh. The biggest difficulty I have in ANY chaebol drama is absolutely the whole "love overcomes the sociopathy of riches" fantasy.
At least Thyme's bullying is a manifestation of that sociopathy, and so his arc of overcoming that part of him makes for really good drama and storytelling (even if total fantasy).
I'm watching F4T with my partner and making him watch clips from the Korean and Chinese versions so he can see some of the contrast in quality between them haha