My Stubborn

Easy to watch? Or maybe too hard to finish...

It was intriguing at first but what it became...
What drew me in was the plot and trailer. Safe to say probably many people discovered this drama that way. This drama is for people who don't want to get deep into anything, just to pass the time or you just simply don't know what to watch.

The plot is anywhere everywhere and nowhere. We have a bunch of nc scenes, an episode cannot pass by without one. I have seen quite a bit and different type of nc scenes, but here they made me as uncomfortable as Jun looked in them. I started feeling bad for Jun. Literally when Jun screamed out for Sorn that he never wanted to do anything, it was always Sorn wanting. I could not look the same way at their scenes where they are close, even just hugging. AND SORN NOT RESPECTING JUN AT ALL!!! Like HELLO!!!! Boy states his boundaries and Sorn just brakes them cause he is selfish and he wants Jun. Sorn says how he want things to work out between them and next time he gets close to Jun disrespects him by breaking boundaries.
This drama is next level at sexualising toxic relationship . Poor Jun always flinches and deflates when Sorn touches him. Personally it seems like Jun is being abused rather than in love. I am not entirely sure is this how Jun's character is supposed to be feeling and acting. But boy does not look like he consents to anything, just gives into it.

About the side couples, well Champ and Thai are quite stiff in their scenes. I would rather have more Penny and June scenes together, cause they are adorable and looks like a couple who actually are in love. And now we have problems with Champ and Thai when we have only one ep left. Seriously just wanting to shake the characters through the screen :D
Like please just say how ya'll are actually feeling about each other TT

As a person who loves insane chemistry, i felt that through all 11 episodes i have seen, the chemistry was quite non existent. Might be a few scenes where it was ok. ALL WE NEED IS FOR JUN TO SHOW CLEAR CONSENT OR INITIATE AT LEAST SOMETHING. That would fix the show at least a tiny teeny bit.

So I am waiting for the last episode, but i don't think that the last episode is going to fix everything that is going on. Since i came this far, i won't drop it. Wouldn't be so surprised of people actually dropping these series. I haven't read the book, so this review is based only of what i have seen in the series

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This is one of those shows that's tough to rate. It wasn’t one of the best, but it wasn’t that bad either. The plot was pretty weak and overcrowded with characters who didn’t really add much. I thought Thai and Champ’s relationship would balance out Sorn and Jun’s, but it turned out just as messy.

What really made me give it a 10 were the actors playing Sorn, Jun, and Thanu. They totally carried the series. They brought humor, emotion, and realism, and kept me coming back each week just to see how far Sorn would go to avoid admitting he's been in love with Jun all along.

Sorn isn’t perfect, and he never pretended to be. He’s a walking red flag, possessive and immature, but you only truly grasp how vulnerable he is when Jun finally stands his ground and walks away. And Jun isn’t as innocent as he looks either.

Boat and Oat have insane chemistry and did an amazing job making their characters believable. The actor playing Thanu also stole every scene he was in. Maybe it was the weak plot, but even with solid acting, the chemistry between Yoon and Punpun and between Michelle and Poy just didn’t hit the mark.

It’s not a perfect series, and it won’t be for everyone, but I had fun with it.

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His Manchild Sorn (uncut version with watch suggestions)

Overall: though we heard characters say Jun pranks/ed Sorn, we never saw that. Instead we saw Sorn being a manchild and one sided bullying/intimate partner emotional abuse. Nothing was ever Sorn's fault, it was always someone elses, there was zero responsibility-taking. With some tweaks, I would have rated this much higher. The series is adapted from the book "Nai Hia Bok Mai Chop Dek" by Nang Sao Phop which I have read but I reviewed the series on its own merits (notes about how they mucked up the adaptation at the end of this review). 12 episodes about 50 minutes each. Airing uncut on iQIYI https://www.iq.com/play/my-stubborn-episode-1-1vk3bdn96z8?lang=en_us and cut on MFlow's YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b12PV1m9pP8&ab_channel=MFlowEntertainment MFlow also produced: Time, Beyond the Star, Tin Tem Jai, AiLongNhai, Second Chance and Coffee Melody.

Content Warnings: non/dub con kissing/touching, voyeurism, drugging, punches, bullying, intimate partner emotional abuse, hits, manhandling

Watch Suggestions (to remove most of Sorn being an asshole and uninteresting side characters/plot)
- episode 1 watch beginning-27:50
- watch all of episode 2
- episode 3 watch beginning-13:45, 27-35:35, 37:50-54
- episode 4 watch beginning-5:30
- episode 5 watch 11-20:45, 23:30-24:5, 35:10 to the end
- episode 6 watch 5:25-6:30, 7:15-8:30, 20-23 gl, 27:30-35:25, 37:45-end
- episode 7 watch 5:40-9:50, 20:20-21:30 and continue for the GL, 30-33, 37-44
- episode 8 watch 17-18 and 29-41:45
- skip episode 9
- episode 10 watch 9:30-13:10, 34:50-35:20 and 39:20-end
- episode 11 watch 13:15-19:30 and 21:45-31:15
- episode 12 watch 17:50-end

What I Liked
- attention getting intro*
- tension
- NSFW scenes were pretty well done with facial expressions/sounds**
- the camera shot of the escalators with a character going up and the other going down
- Jun's dad and sister
- Sorn's mom and brother
- good conversation about sexual position preferences

Room For Improvement
- *the intro scene felt kind of random, and then there was a separate situation that seemed not connected from that time but the characters discussed the past as if it was just 1 incident and not 2
- character cards to introduce characters instead of naturally showing the audience their traits
- felt choppy at times (daylight went to full nighttime in a few minutes in ep 7)
- nonsense stuff like not contacting someone because they lost their phone as if social media doesn't exist, **an unusual amount of neck kissing then a character saying he couldn't breathe when he wasn't being kissed on the mouth at all, school aged children working at a coffee shop during the school day, Jun being extremely drunk and then suddenly sober, Win didn't hear something when he very close, pink lighting in the same bathroom that never had it previously, a beard that looked like it was drawn on by a toddler
- comedy sound effects didn't make things funny
- Sorn let Jun be punched multiple times before intervening because he wanted to teach him a lesson about not kissing people when Sorn was kissing someone?!? Sorn tells other people to treat Jun like an adult when he himself treats Jun like a child, Sorn kicked Jun's leg and hit his mouth for looking at his brother
- what Sorn did in episode 4 was terrible and a few apologies/buying food didn't fix it for me
- the side m/m couple's progression made no sense and they virtually disappeared for a few episodes, they don't talk to each other when they should have and then it got very controlling "you are my wife" stuff
- the side f/f couple's progression/relationship in the first half didn't make much sense and they also disappeared
- the side m/f couple's relationship was boring to watch
- in episode 5 Jun told Sorn to stop multiple times and Sorn didn't, in episode 7 Jun was hitting Sorn as if saying to stop and Sorn continued
- some odd/close up shots
- love rivals including in the finale, could have spent that time elsewhere

Note for ages: Jun was 19 (i.e. in university) in the first scene and Sorn was 24. In the present, Jun is 21 and Sorn is 26. The actors are 30 and 28. I have no issue with the age gap.

Thoughts on Grey Characters/Their Romantic Relationships
Sometimes these characters and their dynamic work for me and other times they don't. Here are the factors that I think about:
1. was there a realistic reason why the character/s acted the way they did in the past (there was no reason given why Sorn was an asshole/abusive towards Jun)
2. how bad was/is the treatment (emotionally abusive with ignoring Jun's boundaries multiple times, controlling Jun's actions or saying things were Jun's fault that weren't his fault, made Jun look really bad at work, Sorn allowed Jun to get punched multiple times to teach Jun a lesson that Sorn himself ignored)
3. were both characters grey or was one squeaky clean (Jun was pretty squeaky clean, he had a go with the flow energy)
4. was there some kind of apology/amend making (verbal apologies and bought Jun food in ep 5 for 1 instance, the later apology was awful and said Jun should know that Sorn was bad at apologies, wtf?!)
5. was there character growth (no, Sorn continued to ignore Jun's boundaries, was controlling/too possessive)
6. do I believe that the characters will stay together in a happy romantic relationship (no, because the emotional abuse will make Jun miserable)
final verdict: I don't want them together, Jun will be miserable, he still looked miserable/reluctant a lot of the time

Some Differences Between the Book & The Series
- in the book in the past they did show how both Sorn and Jun pranked each other, it felt much less 1 sided bullying in the book
- the book did not have GL and Sorn clearly explained his past relationship with Penny
- the book did not have Sorn smiling as Jun got into trouble in episode 4, Sorn was horrified that it had gone that far and made amends better in the book
- the book has a reason why Sorn does not like people younger than himself, they did eventually give the reason but it wasn't as clear as in the book
- Sorn also had a good reason for losing contact, TBD if they talk about this in the series
- Jun is really into Sorn in the book and is not frequently reluctant like he is in the series
- the 2nd half of the book was Sorn groveling/making up for his past mistakes, the series dragged out Sorn being a jerk with barely any apology-making

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Thank Gods It's Over

I started watching this right when it dropped and my goodness those 12 weeks couldn't've come fast enough.

If all you want is borderline softcore porn with a main couple that, despite everything bad that happens, has great chemistry, then watch this. Maybe someone will have a list of timestamps for all the sex scenes because that may be the only thing worth watching.

I'll start off with the biggest flex this show has:
ACTING
Overall, the acting is quite good, especially with Jun. Hell, if you're familiar with Yoon and how stiff he can be, I'd say he was a little more flexible here. This might just be due to the fact that his style matched the character well- except in the final episode when he had to be mean and, well, that fell flat.

I'd even say Sorn's actor did a good job- with the little he had to work with. Sorn's character is very one note: smoldering glares and frowns and the occasional eyebrow raise. This isn't the fault of the actor at all, moreso the writers.
Despite that, I'd honestly love to see Boat and Oat in a completely different story.

WRITING:
Bad. Awful. Terrible.
If you enjoy toxic yaoi/BL/romance stories where the top is narcissistic and controlling, constantly lies, and acts like he has nooooo idea what he's doing even though it's super clear he's creating a terribly off balance dynamic between him and his partner: then yeah you'd love this story.

The story starts off on a very manipulative lie: Sorn practically tricks Jun to masturbate with him out in the open and then lies about Jun being so awful that he *needs* Sorn. He needs Sorn to teach him how to be better. And Jun, who's inexperienced (not a bad thing at all) unfortunately falls for it.
This story makes bank off of the fact that Jun's character isn't all that socially bright to the point where, yes, he comes off as childish. The size difference and the way most of the older characters refer to him as kid REALLY adds to this. And this makes the imbalance between their characters that much worse. Sorn knows EXACTLY what he's doing by never fully committing to an actual relationship while getting sex out of Jun just about whenever he wants. He takes full blown advantage of Jun's naivety and overtly trusting nature and it gets very uncomfortable to watch very quickly.

I'm not a fan of this trope. This borderline dubcon situation. The (mostly sexual) attraction the audience is supposed to have towards this show is steeped in manipulation, there's no other way around it.

The only reason why I stuck around was to see if they' actually develop Jun's character enough to make him realize that he's in a very fucked up situation. What I really wanted to see was Jun realizing early on that, yeah, this is NOT working. And then maybe the rest of the show would be Jun growing a backbone and, most importantly, Sorn ceasing his disgusting actions. But no. Once episode 4 came and went, I knew exactly where this story was going.

Yes, Jun has a small moment in the last third of the story when he overhears Sorn and his brother chatting about him. Sorn's brother, just like everyone else except Jun, clocks Sorn for his bad behavior, and Sorn admits he can't date Jun. This is when Jun snaps and he silently distances himself from Sorn. And let me tell you, those 2 episodes were actually the best parts of the show. Jun staying away from Sorn while trying to move on with his life. His friends helping him because they all know Sorn sucks- well, they know this but not enough to try and stop it before. But I digress.
I'm familiar with these types of stories, so I knew Jun would go back. So I cherished these moments as much as I could.

I had hoped that, if anything, Sorn's character would grow exponentially. But no.

No.

He does not.

And it's CRAZY. He literally stays THE same. And sadly Jun's character reverts to his former self: malleable and controlled.

The writing for Jun's departure was fairly good, so it was disappointing to see Sorn and Jun's relationship stay EXACTLY the same as it was before this moment. The first time Sorn went RIGHT back to invading Jun's personal space (at his job btw!!!), I felt sick. Like, a different type of sick compared to before.
I'll say it again, I would love to see these two actors in literally anything else. I just hope they aren't typecasted to this.

Now with the others:
- Tai and Champ's side story was okay. Nothing groundbreaking. And yet I felt like it at least attempted to balance the toxicity of SornJun. So at times, I really enjoyed their moments because at least it was a break from the main couple. I did like their tie to SornJun, being that they're part of their original group and that Tai is basically Jun's older brother. I felt the drama that grew between Champ And Tai once Champ finally found out about SornJun was actually pretty good. But man that drama fell flat very fast.

And that's an overall problem this show has. It's very much Porn With A Little Bit of Story rather than a Story With a Little Bit of Porn.

I found that a lot of the side points would crumble pretty quickly and become less and less interesting. Which is a shame because I did find a lot of the side characters to be interesting. This leads me to

-Mandatory GL Couple That Gets Side Swiped Very Quickly
I felt so bad for these girls, They're romance is veeeeery clearly shoe horned into the story. GL plotlines have been fairly popular lately and it felt like a very sloppy attempt at jumping on the trend. They had a strong start, I will say that. But Penny's relationship with Sorn turned out to be far more interesting than her eventual romance- which says A LOT.

-Phut(?) and Vee
Great example of forced side romance. They got pulled into the raging waters that was SornJun so quickly that I legit forgot about their whole....thing. When they randomly brought in the final episode and he was like "oh yeah we ended it" or whatever he said, I laughed. That was so half assed.

Summary:
I need Boat and Oat in something else. Please.
If anything, the sex scenes were directed well....?
Can we please put an end to Toxic Man Romance? Or at least ton it down? Thanks <3

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No, thank you!

This series was something else. And not in a good way. And the worst part is that it was super hyped.
For those who lie to themselves and firmly claim that this series is one of the best released this year, let's be honest: without the NC scenes, this series would have been considered mediocre by most.
There's no story.
There's no character development.
There's no plot twist.
Maybe the problem is me, but the line between BL and p**n was very thin in this series.

Sorn is an extremely toxic, manipulative, control-obsessed character who doesn't really care about Jun. He just uses him for his own pleasures. And the sad part is that there was no character development for him. Not even when he lost Jun.
I liked Jun up to a point. I felt sorry for him, and from episode to episode I begged him to leave. But then I realized that his self-respect really doesn't exist and that he's exactly where he wants to be.
But let's give Caesar what belongs to Caesar: the NC scenes were good. Too many for my taste: it wasn't a story sprinkled with NC scenes, but NC scenes with little story, but not bad.

Thai and Champ. They were... meah. We could do without their story and the obvious lack of chemistry between the characters. Their NC scenes were hard to watch, I felt uncomfortable for them.

I saw what the new project of the main actors will be and I'm scared. Because it can no longer be called BL, but p**n. And the two of them in OmegaVerse... woe to our souls.

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I can’t do it

I tried. I tried so hard to watch it because everyone seems to be so excited about it but omg I cant I feel nothing I’m wasting my time.

I want to preface this with I am NOT picky with bls like at all, I watched half a series on 2x speed once bcuz it was so boring and I still gave it like an 8/10 but I cannot with this series. I could write a thorough paragraph of why I don’t like this series but instead I’m gonna give point form bcuz I’m tired and then I’ll add a few points of what I did like (it’s a short list)

- im halfway through episode 4 and I haven’t felt a single thing
- stiff feeling awkward acting
- LITERALLY WHAT EVEN IS THE “STORY”?? NOTHING IS HAPPENING
- why does Sorn grab and kiss Jun every 3 seconds it’s WEIRD AND AWKWARD and feels like an awkward forcing of fanservice
- every time Sorn grabs and kisses Jun it’s oddly forceful and in just a not sexy uncomfortable manner
- watched it on 1.5 speed and I’m STILL bored
- synopsis is completely innacurrate Jun is just living his life and Sorn is a massive annoyance and man child
- they literally just don’t seem like they like each other to me
- I honestly don’t feel an ounce of chemistry but maybe that’s me
- love me a toxic man sometimes but Sorn is just plain annoying
- it’s not even bad in an entertaining funny way it’s just bad
- a decent amount of the dialogue is just useless dribble that means nothing adds nothing and feels out of place
- I genuinely feel nothing towards them idc if they get together idc if they break up idc if they both die at the end frankly

things I liked about the show ☺️
- the side couple is kinda ok idk haven’t seen many of their scenes
- some of the side characters are fun
- the first episode was the only time I felt intrigued about the show being atleast entertaining even if it was bad and that ended very swiftly
- some of the NC scenes were alright
- I genuinely can’t think of anything else I liked right now and I just finished half of episode 4

if you literally just want something playing then this is a great show for you, if you want to feel even one single ounce of care or emotion other than maybe horny sometimes watch anything else, 4/10 honestly might be generous after reading my list but again I am not used to giving anything less than a 7. if you watch this and think it’s good I think you might have mush for brain.

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Boat and Oat

I really thought this would end the curse of MFlow Entertainment for me. I really like both Boat and Oat and it's great to see Yoon again. But there are two "actors" here that give this series a deficit for me which is Llouis (from the awful Beyond the Star) and Toey (from the trash that was 2 Moons The Ambassador)

So my focus must stay with Boat and Oat and Yoon.

Luckily the 2 actors here that I have zero respect for are paired together so I can make great use of the FF button.

Unpleasantness aside I'm very interested in the Sorn and Jun relationship as it appears Sorn has a thing for Jun and see their encounters as helping Jun and nothing more. While carrying on a heterosexual relationship. Sorn is definitely not heterosexual unless we're going for I'm not into men I'm just into you.

Mflow for me seemingly has a trouble carrying a series all the way through, it seems there is no script and they are just winging it. I'm hoping they can carry this one for Boat and Oat sake. And of course Yoon. I'm cautiously optimistic as long as I can avoid Llouis and Toey.

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Stupid but fun

If you like the old school BLs like tharntype, don't say no etc then you will like this. It is toxic and full of misunderstandings and a dumb non existent plot. The side characters are also really bad and the actors are not pulling it off. The show is almost all sex scenes and a paper thin plot. That office also has no HR or rules at all, they be doing all sorts of stuff and getting away with it.

The lead actors are doing well especially with their romance scenes.

The drama has so many unnecessary parts and could have been 8 eps. The side couples are both boring and badly acted.

Sorn is a mega red flag, not understanding or respecting boundaries and not paying attention to Jun and his feelings and never changes or matures throughout the series. There are some interesting moments but I'm mostly just watching for the nostalgia as it is similar to some of the first BLs i watched.

If this was a real life relationship it would be harassment and SA. Sorn only cares about what he wants which is mostly sex, and doesn't want to give anything back or respect Jun. There is no character progression here.

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A fun drama

I don't care about the popular opinion here.

Many reviews have highlighted how the story lacked depth or whatever and the drama was just NC scenes but what some people fail to grasp is that just because the scenes are r18 doesn't mean the story lacked substance. Lust evolving into love is a story that can actually have a lot of substance if done well and MY STUBBORN did it very well. You have two (maybe 4?) people getting together to fulfill their baser needs but fall in love along the way, what's not to love about people in love being in denial and a major conflict and separation that leads to longing which later brings out a happy ending?

I love the story and the characters, sometimes simple is good and the story even though it was simple was not boring at any point of the drama and I will stand by this opinion of mine no matter what anyone else says.

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A good story told by a 13 years old

There were so many good ideas in this, but no matter how good they are, sticking them together randomly with c*m and glue is not enough to make a good drama. Not insulting 13 years olds here, but this is how a lot of young, rookie writers make stories: A nice idea and a strong message followed by a messy storyline, too many characters, messy characterization, 'tell don't show', plotholes, etc... So yeah, I feel like this is what 50 shades of gray would have looked like if the director didn't know how to properly do their job.... cuz the director of this drama definitely had no clue.

There goes a few points that made me feel this way:
-Everyone's characterization and character management in general. Too many people and most of them were absolutely useless. Tried to go somewhere with that guy who cheated on his girlfriend but it had no impact on the scenario at all. Tai had absolutely no reason to back off from champ unlike Sorn who really had some internal conflict about Jun. Penny was there just to make Jun jealous half a minute and then she was off with June, but that couple was so random and unimportant that they didn't even appear in the last episode. Jun was depicted as annoying and stubborn in the pilot and summaries, but we never saw him once bother anyone in the show and all he ever did was stand up for himself. The only person's who's characterization made sense and stayed stable til the end was Sorn, and he was unsufferable.

-Poor rythm. So many useless scenes that have no impact on anyone. Most of them super long. I never skip scenes in drama no matter how uninterested I am, but I watched half of this show in x2

-Basic environnement. The only times the place they are at and the things they are doing matter are during NCs. Otherwise, they could be acting on a green screen that it would be the same. Nothing matters except from the drama between Sorn and June, which makes anything else than them even more uninteresting. Wouldn't be an issue if the director didn't waste time on everything else all the time.
I think I could summ up those 3 points with: In a movie or a show, everything should have a purpose. Not necessarly a meaning, but a reason to be there, otherwise nothing matters at all and it gets boring, and that's what happened in My Stubborn. Adding to that stupid details like Sorn's ridiculous beard that was way too out of place just to be a joke or Penny's flawless make up when she wakes up with a cold and there we are just rolling our eyes all the time.

-Sorn and Jun's relationship. Look, I don't hate toxic characters or relationships as long as the author treats them as such. Here, we almost had a really good redemption arc for Sorn. I really loved the scene where Jun breaks down and yells at Sorn for being a selfish coward, especially when he mentionned that it was alway Sorn who initiated intimacy. I had good hopes for how they would treat the relationship after that, but alas, everything was thrown away pretty quickly.
The problem here is that the author treated the redemption arc like the reason Sorn was toxic was because he leaded Jun on and wouldn't admit his feelings. So, for that issue, he did go through redemption and succeeded in fixing it.
But no, Sorn wasn't toxic because he was a coward. He was toxic because he constantly forced/manipulated Jun into doing what he wanted, because he would never take no for an answer, because he was super agressive when things didn't go his way, because he victimized himself and blamed everyone when he was frustrated, because all he ever had to say was "But I want..." "But I feel like..." and even when he decided to hear Jun's feelings out for the first time all he had to say was how he felt about it. The redemption arc never or very briefly adressed all of that, which reminded me of My Stand In when the whole time Joe blames Ming because he dated him only cuz his back reminded him of someone else, but as soon as this issue is fixed we ignore the whole kidnapping, manipulation, power imbalance, selfishness aspects that make Ming a red flag.
To me, even towards the end when Sorn acts softer, there is one big thing missing that doesn't make me believe in this relationship: Jun's initiative.
He may want to be intimate with Sorn. He may say yes a few times. He may flirt a bit. But in every. single. kissing scene and NC, he either agrees to it after being pressured, shrink away, ask straight up Sorn to stop/ slow down or hit him, and most importantly, he never initiated anything. Even in the last one in the staircases. Basically, their whole intimacy agenda is Sorn agressively eating him up while Jun tries to keep up with the situation. They are never on the same level and it's very frustrating, ESCPECIALLY after seeing Boat and Oat's performance at the last EP party, and the only difference between that "NC" and all the NC's in the show are 1. They take it slower. 2. Oat's body language, yet it felt way more natural, sexy, tensed and most important of all, consented.

To bring up a few positive points: Their acting was on point, especially boat who absolutely killed it. I really liked Tai's character and I wish he had gotten a more impactful relationship with Champ. The lightning in the NCs was always very pretty and although not perfect, Jun and Sorn's were well choreographed. And although they didn't really go anywhere with that, I was really glad Jun stood up for himself and mentionned the whole dubious consent stuff.

Anyway I think if you want to enjoy this serie it's better to switch your brain off and just enjoy the NC scenes and the Cast's awesome chemistry.

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