greysweater

It sounds like you're still not understanding me, so I'm going to try to stick with the parts that are the most important for me, to try and get this across a last time.

First, there is no "my" definition or "your" definition. The word neutral has a specific definition and you have been incorrectly using it. I would recommend not using that word going forward, because it is confusing if someone knows the definition of the word. By definition of the word, you are not neutral.

Second, you are NOT actually emotionally detached. This is also a phrase that has a specific definition. It comes from psychology and actually describes a MALADAPTIVE (not healthy/helpful) response to one's life/environment and involves the INABILITY to connect with other human beings, typically coming from trauma response. It's not considered a good/healthy for a human to be emotionally detached.

"Taking what being said in scenes and not making assumptions" is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from emotional detachment.

Obviously you are still invested in the story, in the characters, etc. Everything you described in your response-- Ju Yeon is your favorite, you'd be sad if your ship sank, you were angry at Jae Hyung's way of speaking to Ju Yeon-- these are all EMOTIONS! To be emotionally detached, you would get zero feelings, but your comments clearly show preference between castmembers and feelings towards their behavior.

You kept accusing people who disliked Young Woo's behavior of being emotional and not neutral (neither of which are bad things), but you are exactly the same, just on the opposite side. I guess I was confused and rubbed the wrong way by you saying we're emotional-- which, again, is normal-- yet you also are emotional.

I think these top two is the number 2 reason that I was so annoyed with your replies. I dislike when people try to pretend they are unbiased or unemotional when everything about their comment screams that they have their own biases and emotions involved-- and to be clear, this is not a bad thing. It is literally part of being human to have your emotions and biases where other humans are involved.

I would recommend you just tell people "When I watch the show, I make zero assumptions about what happened next" like you mentioned. It's going to be hard for you to have a discussion with someone who identifies patterns in the show and thinks ahead to where these patterns are leading.

When I say I prefer you not claiming to be neutral, I'm not saying join the people who dislike Young Woo's behavior on the show. Please don't twist my words.

You can just continue with your current thoughts on the show, defending Young Woo, liking Ju Yeon, etc. etc. It's just what I said above, what annoys me is not how you feel about the cast, but that you have all these feelings and thoughts about the cast (just like the rest of us) yet incorrectly call yourself neutral and emotionally detached. The only actual difference is a completely different topic, which is that you watch without making assumptions while we watch while using what we've seen to predict what may happen and make assumptions about what may be being withheld (for example, both Choa and Cheolhyun noted that they suspected Young Woo was interested in Ji Won. Paired with the way Young Woo was behaving, I guessed that Young Woo liked Ji Won and that he would pursue her in the upcoming episodes. I can understand why you have a problem with some of my points if you only believe in watching while making zero assumptions. Our different methods of watching, in addition to the misunderstanding over the definition of neutral, made a mess of this conversation).

Additionally, the way you phrase things makes it sound like you believe that watching without making assumptions is the superior way to watch. (If that's not at all what you mean, my apologies for getting you incorrect.) Humans are very quick to identify patterns, and we're very good at analyzing the information we have to predict what we don't know. This is a human instinct and part of our biology. That's why it annoyed me to see you keep acting like these very natural human modes of being are somehow lesser or immature or a "wrong" way to interact with a tv show specifically designed to get us invested in the story of its cast.

Again, to be very clear, not being neutral doesn't mean you have to agree with me or other people who don't like Young Woo's actions. It just means please own up that you have your own emotions and biases involved.

On your point on what you meant about Jae Hyung, thank you for explaining clearly. I misunderstood you before. To me, there is no way to tell someone you don't like them that won't hurt, so I couldn't understand what you meant by he should say it differently. I thought you meant he should soften it by lying to her. For me, I could understand how uncomfortable the conversation is from Jae Hyung's perspective and him already being uncomfortable in front of cameras making things worse. I don't have any issue with you disliking his act, I misunderstood your point.

The final point, the part I truly don't understand, is still why you specifically sought out comments that are disliking Young Woo's actions. You tell me to focus on positivity, but you yourself are not focusing on positivity. That seems hypocritical. Even in my original comment, I mentioned positive moments that I was excited about. I talked about how gorgeous Patricia looked and mentioned that I'm so excited that Choa finally looks relaxed and carefree now that everything is out in the open. Yet what you chose to focus on was the negative feelings that I got from watching Young Woo.

And in my previous comments, I was always mentioning positive things, gushing about how much I like the healing vibes of the show (in the first few episodes), how I appreciate seeing adults having a slow romance, how I admire this or that about certain castmembers. So please don't try to levy this claim at me that I'm not positive.

I have been very positive, have had lots of positive conversations through the weeks this show has been airing. The funny thing is, I used to get attacked by JaeJi shippers because I was a happy JaeCho fan. Even though all I'm saying is that I liked Jae Hyung and Choa's vibes together, that both castmembers are positive energy and I appreciate it, they would specifically come under my comment to say no, they're not good together, he's better with Ji Won.

And I find the way you comment to people who dislike Young Woo's actions to feel similar to the way those JaeJi shippers would comment under people who liked JaeCho. It just makes me think, why? It's like finding a party for people who dislike mintchoco and crashing it saying 'ACTUALLY mint choco is the best flavor in my opinion." It just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't know how to explain this in an exact way, so maybe my meaning will be muddled but I will try:

It's one thing to debate, for example "Does Young Woo like Ji Woo or does he not like Ji Woo?" I would just bring up the things that were presented in the episode that make me think he does. You would bring up the things that make you think he doesn't. That's fine. That's a decent debate. I can understand why you would comment under someone on a topic like this and say "This is what I noticed, what did you notice that made you think your way?"

It's completely another thing to try to debate "Was Young Woo rude or was he not rude?" Because this is completely SUBJECTIVE and based on the preferences of the viewer. There is no evidence to be provided because we are both watching the same thing but because of our preferences, we come away with different conclusions. I may not like Young Woo's body language in the scene while you may feel completely fine about it. I might not like the words he uses while they may not bother you. This is not a worthwhile debate because there is nothing to debate or discuss. I just cannot understand what the point of engaging someone over a topic like this is, if you have a different like/dislike.

That was my mindset when I saw your original comment. I just didn't understand, and still don't, what the point of seeking people who have a different like/dislike is. If you like mintchoco chip, just go to the party for people who prefer mint choco chip. What is the point of crashing and riling up the people who are having a party for disliking mintchoco?

And it's not something you did one time, either, you did it to several people who didn't like Young Woo's behavior. Almost like you couldn't stand that people dislike how he acted. So already I felt "This person has some kind of agenda."

I think maybe you should take your own advice about focusing on the positive. Actually, I think you should first model your own advice on everything before prescribing it to me. You keep saying commenters should behave in certain ways ("neutral," "emotionally detached," "focus on positives") yet you don't do any of that! You literally are acting exactly like everyone else. I just find it so hypocritical to expect others to act a certain way but you yourself don't act that way. It really annoys me, which is probably why that annoyance feeling comes through my comments. It feels like you think you're acting more properly or right than everyone, while being completely blind that actually you're just the same, only with opposite opinions on the cast.

Oh, and also, I never gaslit you. I literally said "Look, it's fine if you like Young Woo and are a fan of him, but there really is no good excuse for the way he engages with people." As in, there's nothing you can really say to me that would provide a good excuse for the way he behaved. Right off the bat I already told you that I'm pretty set in my view of him because I saw how he acted and disliked his behavior.

Plus, please remember who responded to who first here. Of course I will make it clear I don't feel the same as you-- my original comment says I don't like how Young Woo acts. You already knew I felt exactly opposite to you when you commented to me. (Which is still such a "why??" to me, I don't get it.)

Anyway, I will, however, take your third advice and just end this here. Very exasperating

I think you're right, looking at it again. Truly their major conflict comes from misunderstandings. It's unfortunate because the misunderstanding seems to largely stem from Jung Sub's inability to communicate effectively. If he just said the things he said in the interview to Se Seung, it wouldn't be such a big issue. But for some reason he becomes so roundabout and confusing when he speaks to her.

I think they have a shot at a relationship if he learns to communicate, but he doesn't even seem to realize he has a communication problem so that's going to be a tough hill to climb.

Watching Jung Sub is kind of bizarre for me because even when I'm frustrated with him, I understand. It's just he's young. He's going through the phase a lot of people go through where they're just excited to be liked and fly around having whirlwind emotions. It's also for this reason that I think he didn't properly consider what the outcome of the show could be before he came on. Youth lol

I guess the answer to my question is "no" then.

First, the definition of neutral is "Belonging to NEITHER side in a controversy." If Young Woo is the controversy, you literally cannot be neutral if you defend him. A "neutral" person would just watch the show and not bother engaging with a forum on one side or another. Defending someone is by definition NOT a neutral stance. That's why I said you're being hypocritical. If you are defending a castmember, that is not being neutral.

And honestly, I do prefer you not being neutral. I just wish you would acknowledge it rather than using it to make your comments seemingly have more weight than the rest of us "emotionals."

To add to that, yes, you are quite forceful. Making several similar comments SPECIFICALLY to people calling out Young Woo to defend him is forceful. You could have easily just thought "these people are too invested" and moved on. But you felt a need to insert your opinion. Literally the response you made to my comment was "And how he spoke in a way that was not respectful of other people? Maybe your like towards Choa blinded you." Right off the bat, you were essentially telling me that I'm wrong with no room that my interpretation might be right.

You continually were the one to keep negating everything I said. I said Choa was angry, you said she's not. I said Young Woo likes Ji Woo, you said he doesn't. I said Jae Hyung wasn't rude, you said he was. I said the show is clearly utilizing editing to craft a specific story. You said that's not what's happening.

You said you kept commenting because " I saw everything differently from what the bashings and wonder why they're thinking like that," but from my perspective, it felt more like you want to persuade me to your side of things. It felt like I'm having to defend my right to my view against your point. Yet, when I very clearly explain things, you dismiss my strongest points and claim I'm too emotional.

The fact that you still think I have a double standard on Jae Hyung and Young Woo makes me feel like you didn't actually seriously consider the points I put forward. If you did, wouldn't you think "oh, I guess by *your* standards they are different, but by *mine* they are not." That would be a somewhat closer to neutral take. That's what I mean by forceful. You are *very* forceful with your opinions. And now you're trying to say that Jae Hyung making eye contact with Ji Won on a DATE that he *asked* for is in any way similar to Jae Hyung not making eye contact with Ju Yeon when 1) Ju Yeon called *him* out, he didn't want that conversation, 2) the conversation was very uncomfortable for him because the only answer he can give her, the truth, is that he doesn't like her. She's essentially forcing him to say it out loud and there's no way to say you don't like someone that's not going to hurt, and 3) his feelings towards Ju Yeon, who he is not romantically interested in, are very different from his feelings towards Ji Won, who he is romantically interested in and likes.

I don't understand how these two very different situations can at all be compared. I would change my mind if your points are strong, but they're not strong to me. I would prefer if you just said "I don't like how Jae Hyung acts" instead of trying to make it some kind of objective thing that he's rude. Then I could just say, "oh okay, I guess you don't like that kind of behavior" and leave it at that. Then it would just be a preference issue between what we each prefer, rather than a difference on some kind of an objective truth.

The fact also that you think I would be satisfied with what Young Woo did in the truth game doubly makes me think you aren't actually listening to my points. My whole issue with Young Woo is that his words and his behavior are arrogant and rude (from my perspective). He maintained that arrogance and rudeness in the truth game, so of course I would not like it. He already went around the house claiming he was "neutral"-- and I already said I didn't like when he did that. Isn't that the same thing he did, basically, in the truth game? This public announcement? If I didn't like it before, why would I like it now?

I also don't like how calculating Young Woo seems. In his interviews ep 15, he says the reason he asks the questions is not to hear Ji Won's answer, but to make everyone else aware of the situation. Yet everyone else is asking questions specifically for the person they like or for their sibling's benefit. It just honestly made my opinion of Young Woo drop even more. I'm not a person who is calculating in love. I'm also someone who believes that direct and clear communication is important to maintain healthy relationships. From the perspectives of what values I hold and what I'm sensitive too, I do not appreciate Young Woo's behavior in the show. That's just my perspective my opinion, which I keep saying.

There are times in my previous comments, also, where I clearly say things like "The way you interpret Choa's question is different from how I interpret it," "That's just my perspective when watching both conversations he has with Choa. You, of course, can feel differently," and "If you don't read her expression that way, that's fine." I tried to make it very clear that these are *my* opinions and *my* interpretations, and *you* don't have to interpret it that way. I tried to hold my position while also not negating your perspective too much.

I didn't like how when I give my interpretations, you essentially insinuate that they are wrong, yet when I bring up strong points (the difference between Choa and Ju Yeon, how Jae Hyung never led Ju Yeon on while Choa and Young Woo had a legitimate loveline, why do you feel it's okay for Ju Yeon to double check Jae Hyung's feelings-- which she admitted she already knew how she felt-- but not okay for Choa to double check Young Woo's feelings-- who gave her emotional whiplash by being into her for weeks and then doing a 180 suddenly, etc. etc.) you just gloss over or dismiss them.

And then now you bring up that Ji Won was unhappy with Jae Hyung's comments twice, yet Ji Won said some hurtful things to Jae Hyung, too. It seems that you're sensitive to some castmembers and not so sensitive to others. For me, I can look at Ji Won's hurtful comment and think "hmmm, maybe she thought it would sound funny but it just came out wrong." And Jae Hyung already clearly explained that he thought he was saying it in a funny way but clearly it didn't come out that way. So they are two people who have both said unfunny things that hurt.

There is a difference in commenting under someone else's comment, who has an opposite view, with a mind open to TRULY understanding their perspective, versus commenting with a mind to CHANGE or NEGATE their perspective.

Your first comment clearly showed you are doing the latter, That's why this conversation has felt abrasive (at least, from my perspective). Constantly negating what I said, which makes me feel like you don't respect what I'm saying at all and are just trying to poke holes, that I need to defend my perspective while trying to leave room open for yours. I don't know. Overall, it was not a fun conversation.

My advice would be not to negate other people's perspectives so much if you honestly just want to know where they're coming from. If you had come in with your original comment and just said "Why do you think Young Woo was being rude" and not inserted the negation, the conversation would go differently. I just hope you approach other people's opinions a little differently in your future comments.

I found it! It's longer than I expected so I'm going to hold off until my vacation, but I'm anticipating it already

Yes, the ratings on MDL are ridiculous at this point. Some of the best dramas I've watched have subpar ratings while fluff dramas have stellar ratings. Like how the heck can shows like Crazy Love and Gaus Electroncis have 8.2 and 8.3 ratings respectively while Business Proposal has 8.7??

I have a lot of gripes with the rating system anyway. Doesn't make sense that so many different styles, genres, etc. are compared on the same scale. Like I mentioned when the other person was comparing TMRIH to QoT, some dramas just should not appear on the same rubric. Fluffy/escapist blockbusters like A Business Proposal, QoT (sorry), CLOY should be on one rubric, while shows like Crazy Love and Gaus, which are still rom-coms but done with more attention to the craft, should be on another. And then shows like TMRIH, Secret Affair, Prison Playbook, should be still on another. They should have a "General Rating" and then incorporate a feature that allows "Genre Rating" so we can more accurately see how drama rates specifically in their own genre.

Yes, APS truly loves playing these songs over and over. I wonder if he does this as a calling card to differentiate his dramas even more from others. He seems to be drawn to patternmaking/consistency (the red umbrella, the rain, the sort of simp-y male lead, forbidden love due to social ties, etc) so I wouldn't be surprised if he considers this kind of experimentation with soundtrack in a similar vein.

Thank you for the article (I was waiting until I could read the full article to respond). This is unrelated to the conversation, but I love that he is most proud of "...having completed Secret Love Affair while giving plenty of time for the staff to eat, sleep, and rest." Makes me even happier to be a fan of his work.

It's fascinating that he says " At that time, I concluded that this story could not be dramatized. I felt that a drama adopted from a novel, mostly based on feelings and emotions, did not have enough story to go on. The story itself was too short. If the casting was not perfect, I knew it would be the end of it." I thought his hallmark is image based on feelings and emotions! Maybe he developed a new style with Secret Love Affair? I wonder what his work pre-SLA is like

"But now, I feel it is ok if the viewers do not understand everything. They can still follow the story without knowing all the details of the subject matter expert." I think that may be the approach he is trying with the hagwon system here. But I wonder if maybe it doesn't work as well for hagwon/school as it does for the musical environment. I expect most people who watched SLA on some level knew that they could not understand everything about the music environment and had already accepted that. However, even if we don't have a deep academic background in music and music education institutions, we have a sort of somatic, instinctive knowledge of music that allows us in.

With the school/hagwon, viewers might just be too unfamiliar with the internal workings and not have any instinctual way in (since it's all human-made and not innate, the way understanding rhythm and music is innate because of our heartbeat and the physical way our emotions show up on our bodies). Even students would not necessarily be attuned to all that's going on with their teachers and the behind-the-scenes of education.

Last thing, last thing (sorry, my response is so long! The article is just too good)-- I love, love, love what he says at the end about concreteness. I'm already thinking about how to make use of it in my own writing!

Usually I'm not petty enough to circle back, but you were so forceful about only your opinion being right that I'm genuinely curious if you will soften your approach to these kinds of conversations in the future. Everything you said about YWxJW and "the show can't project someone's thinking" just came crashing down

Also, I just noticed you said " I prefer to keep neutral and coolheaded until the end scene of final episode and then sort what is my opinion on them after that." That's not true. You've been posting lengthy paragraphs of your opinions of certain casetmembers and the episodes aren't done yet

At this point, I do not care who chooses who in the final episode. I hope the Park sibling duo remains close, that YJ is happy and healthy, that JY recovers from the experience and finds a partner (if she wants) who adores her, and that the remaining reflect on themselves.

He said "it's been this way for the past three days" when he showed his text question to JY. I think everyone who said from the start he was never neutral and just trying to find a "good guy" way to pick JW was right. He knew right away but chose to waste time with his "neutral" talk to open up the floor and check for any opportunities of wavering from JW

I really don't understand Jung Sub. He says he'll be too busy to date once they go back to their lives outside the show. Then why did he sign up for a dating show? He's basically admitting he came just to have fun, right? That he never intended to have a partner on the other end, right? Which would be okay if everyone knew that, but Se Seung came to the show with an intention to find a partner if possible. She took it seriously and invested her feelings seriously. Now this?

Ugh, I feel terribly for her. I think CA, CH, SS, JH, and YJ needed more castmembers like themselves, who are seriously open to a relationship that continues once the program is done. Not to say the other cast members are not, but they certainly don't seem to be serious about what can come out of a 3 week show. (Which, btw, they've probably spent an equivalent of 6-months in the early dating stage since they're together all the time in the house).

edit: And I feel so bad for Ju Yeon as well. She looked really uncomfortable and cognizant of the fact that her brother was hurting the people she likes (particularly CA and JH).

Big, big spoiler: at the end, they're playing a truth game and JH asks JW "Did you start considering two today or before today?" and JW says "Yesterday it was just one person or no choice, and today it's between two people and no choice".

And after the truth game, Seseung goes to her brother and says "I think Youngwoo invited me on a secret date just to ask questions about you." To which Jae Hyung basically says "no way," and Seseung replies "I mean, he kept asking me about you."

I loved Secret Love Affair! Yes, exactly as you've said here: "The depiction of how corrupt that musical institution was, and the complexity of the internal politics was amazing." I agree that TMRIH doesn't get to the level of complexity and intrigue, but I'm open to the remaining episodes perhaps getting us there eventually. I'm very curious about how this issue between Seo Hye Jin and Schoolteacher Pyo will play out, the ramifications on both the adults and the students, and if there will be any exploration of how the system is designed to keep itself from imploding by sacrificing individuals.

If I remember correctly, Secret Affair had most of the intense corruption implode in the second half, along with the affair reveal. And the ending was just incredible and unexpected with the juxtaposition of internal freedom and physical imprisonment. If TMRIH follows a similar beat, the affair reveal and the implosion of the occupational stuff will be simultaneous, adding some intensity to the second half.

I think we have very similar tastes which is wild to me! Rarely find people who like/dislike the same dramas: I also didn't like OSN. I liked watching Jung Hae In and Son Ye Jin in SITR, but didn't like the actual drama and was exasperated by the later half. Also couldn't really get into Queen of Tears (I'm very much in the minority but I just didn't feel the chemistry between the leads. I skipped the first half because I found it extremely boring).

I'm going to try Tender Light-- never heard of that one before.

15% sounds fine alone, but my point is "Even the top 40 list you are mentioning, *most* of those are makjang/rom/action," with QOT style rom featuring heavily. I don't think this can be denied. And these are much closer to each other in style than the slow-paced, reflective style of Slice of Life.

I'm still not convinced it makes sense to compare ratings of a production like Queen of Tears to TMRIH, and I don't think you can be convinced to my perspective either. It sounds like we just have different thoughts on this.

As for Reply and Our Blues, this point you mentioned is what I'm talking about with it being two different ends of the Slice of Life spectrum: "They're just broader in scope and less heavy handed about it." Yes, I guess what you're perceiving as narrow scope and heavy handedness is what I perceive as "tackling big societal issues/friction as the *foundation* of the story." So your point doesn't exactly disagree with mine,

Actually, it sounds like most of our points themselves are not exactly disagreeing, but we have different preferences so our conclusions are different.

I can't disagree with anything you've listed in the second paragraph since it's your opinion/own feeling of watching the show. I still think the ratings make it solidly average in terms of viewership and not a failure at this time.

With what you've said in the conclusion, of course, I agree Slice of Life is not the only space to explore societal issues. But it's pretty clear that all the top 5 shows are heavy on the escapism and sensational plot until you get to Reply at 6 which you've already said is "broader in scope and less heavy handed" about the societal friction. I see your points about the escapism in TMRIH, but I don't think it's as heavy as the escapism in the others. We seem to have different perspectives of defining dramas and that's what's making us not see eye-to-eye on this (which is completely fine and not something either of us needs to adjust).

Overall, it's funny that many of our points themselves are not quite that different enough to qualify as disagreeing, until we get to our personal feelings, preferences, and interpretations. Our preferences diverge and so we won't reach any consensus

Yes! You put it perfectly.

I don't mean to sound pretentious-- it is true that slice of life generally rate lower than other genres. Even the top 40 list you are mentioning, most of those are makjang/rom/action. Top 5 is two makjang, two rom, and I don't know what Reborn Rich is, but definitely not Slice. Then you get Reply 1998 (very different kind of Slice than TMRIH). So top 10 has 1 slice until 18 (Our Blues) and 20 (Hospital Playlist). So out of top 20 there are three (unless I'm missing something) Slice of Life with the rest being mainly blockbuster rom type.

And I think there's something very different between a Hospital Playlist/Reply than a TMRIH. TMRIH I would place closer to Misaeng or My Liberation Notes in my opinion, And maybe Prison Playbook is in that corner as well. I guess I see these as having dual main focus on relationship AND societal friction issue, while the others are focused mainly on relationships between characters and are not usually tackling big societal issues/friction as the *foundation* of the story.

My comment actually agreed with yours, the ratings are so-so. I said "...for its genre, TMRIH sort of in line with others. Not exceptional (yet), but not on the ground either." Exceptional Slice of Life would be many of the ones you mentioned. So yes, as we both said, compared to the exceptional it is not there. But in general it is doing fine.

I'm also agreeing with you that the subject matter isn't pulling in people. You have to admit that the crux of this show being hagwon vs school system is very different from the crux of the show being forbidden romance due to ideas of family hierarchies etc.

I don't think we're wildly disagreeing. I still don't think it's useful to compare this kind of drama to a blockbuster rom like Queen of Tears. It's definitely not an indie art-house piece, but I can see why they're presenting it that way because the way the story is shot and the focus of the story is more in line with that kind of scene than with a Queen of Tears kind of scene. You have to admit the difference between the storytelling is very clear, with TMRIH being much closer to indie, even if it is a melodrama on a large cable network.

Again, I'm not trying to be pretentious or make any of those kinds of judgements. I think we have the same view for the most part. I just didn't quite get why a drama like this would be compared to Queen of Tears, or why viewership rating would be a metric for this kind of drama's value either.

It is maybe not useful to compare a drama like this to a drama like Queen of Tears. They're completely different genre and style of story-telling, and they appeal to very different scale of audience.

Slice of Life genre generally does not have the same kinds of ratings as fast-paced, romantic dramas. It's just too slow paced for a lot of people and they get impatient/just want something they can watch after work or while relaxing without thinking too hard.

Even Something in the Rain, which had Son Ye Jin and Jung Hae In as the leads, didn't peak above 7-ish % and was in the 4 - 6 % range for most of the show with an average of 5% nationwide. Very very much in line with TMRIH (and other slice of life dramas).

You can kind of think of it how pop music has such a large listenership but, say, something like jazz or classical will have a smaller listenership. It would be close to a miracle for a Slice of Life to break into double digits.

Look at Misaeng, too, which was highly acclaimed for the depth of its storytelling and acting, yet I don't think it ever broke past 8 or 9% viewership.

Another example would be Prison Playbook-- AMAZING AMAZING drama (cannot say enough about it), and it was between 4-6...% for episodes 1-8, in the 7%s for 9-10, 9% for 11-12, and finally broke 10% for episodes 13-16, Ultimately peaking at 11% for the final episode. Overall, it averaged about 7% viewership per episode. For such an acclaimed drama, it is kind of crazy that it didn't get more!

But that is the reality of the Slice of Life genre. It is very rare that they capture as large a viewership base as a romcom, rom, or action.

This very long post to say: although the ratings seem unremarkable, for its genre, TMRIH sort of in line with others. Not exceptional (yet), but not on the ground either.

I love the conversations in this drama. The dialogue is at times intense (ex. the talk over a meal between Seo Hye Jin and Pyo, my body was so tense listening to them!), at other times playful (ex. the conversation between Seo Hye Jin and her friend in ep 8), and at other times murky and full of frustrated expectation.

It's excellent. The dialogue acts the way plot does in plot-driven dramas. Where plot-driven dramas are moved forward by events that happen to the characters, this drama is moved forward by the words the characters share/trade with each other.

I can understand why some people don't like the show. If you're a fan of plot-driven dramas, this definitely is not one. It has it's plot-driven moments, but it's largely the relationships between the characters that create the dynamism and intensity. Excellent, excellent, excellent

Seriously, he's having the best experience out of the cast. I can't help but laugh every time he's shown in the pool or with a glass of wine 😂

These "don't judge" comments are always from people who have their own (unpopular) judgements lol. Wish they would just say "Unpopular opinion but..."

You are not neutral about Young Woo. Someone who is neutral about Young Woo will not make several reply comments defending his behavior. Yes, I do want him to talk or ask Choa with her way-- *asking* someone for a conversation instead of acting so hotshot and frivolous ("Let's do it again") is the polite way. Why wouldn't I prefer that? It's one thing if that's the only time Young Woo acted that way-- maybe he's nervous or something-- but he continuously talks and acts in a way that is offputting.

Jae Hyung was never rude or haughty/hotshot/frivolous in his conversation with Ju Yeon so I don't understand what you mean about double standard there. He literally told her the truth that he's not romantically interested, that he did try to see her that way but it just doesn't work for him. He said nothing rude. Some truths can hurt and of course the truth that he's not romantically interested in Ju Yeon will hurt. There's no way to say it that won't make Ju Yeon's heartache because ultimately what she wants (him to be interested in her) is just not the reality.

The way you interpret Choa's question is different from how I interpret it. I still think she was checking his sincerity because she kept telling Cheol Hyeon how unlike Young Woo the message is and how it doesn't fit with what she knows. How is it malicious and insecure of Choa to try to check his sincerity? How is it insincere? The man has been pulling back from her and confusing her thoroughly-- it's a good thing she's checking because that way she can protect herself.

Notice that when she gets the text about the peaches, she says "I can't take his messages at face value anymore. I don't know what kind of meaning he's trying to convey." She wanted to know what kind of meaning the texts have to Young Woo and she became more certain that they are not viewing the messages in the same way.

She said the conversation was cruel because Young Woo waited so long to tell her and there are barely any days left but he's acting like he's doing her a favor by letting her know so late. In reality, Choa already has a feeling that Young Woo is into Ji Won. So from her perspective, of course this would be cruel and upset her. He's saying it's for her benefit when it's actually for *his* own benefit, so he still has time to pursue someone else.

Ju Yeon said she was shocked to find out she was never a romantic interest and that she was hurt. However, being hurt because the person you like doesn't like you back is not at all the same thing as being hurt because the person who acted like they like you, played with your feelings, and then finally said "hey, I'm not into you" at the last moment.

I don't understand why you are comparing Choa and Ju Yeon's reactions. Choa is over 10 years older than Ju Yeon. She likely has more experience with heartbreak and clearly she is by nature/personality a very calm, composed person. She's always meditating/doing yoga and her style of being is different. Ju Yeon is very bright bubbly girl while Choa is more subdued. Ju Yeon is also still very young. Let her have another 10 years and I bet she would react differently.

To your next point, if Young Woo wants to "clear the misunderstanding," all he has to do is go to the girl he is interested in (or her brother) and say he is starting to have interest in her. Or actually text the girl who he's interested in instead of having all these bizarre texts to people he doesn't like. Look what all his public comments did-- they didn't clear misunderstandings, they created more misunderstandings! Because he's going to Jung Sub and Yoona, now Yoona is confused and wondering if maybe he's into her. This is exactly why I am so offput by Young Woo's mode of communication. He is not transparent. He keeps creating misunderstandings and unfortunate situations.

I don't need to be coolheaded as a viewer. I mean, even you are not coolheaded. This is a show that is centered on emotional connections. I'm watching the show and enjoying being invested in what's shown. Which means I can get upset at the TV when people hurt other people needlessly. Choa's face was clearly an angry expression, especially considering the later comments she made ("I feel like I've turned into a fool. I feel like a clown" etc etc). If you don't read her expression that way, that's fine.

As far as your comment about how do we know if he's into Ji Won, we'll see for sure next week. I am also not making this comment only based on these past two episodes. When Ji Won first met Young Woo on that secret date when she was introduced to the show, that is when Young Woo first starts making comments in his interview like "Why am I texting Choa?" and "I think I'm texting her out of habit rather than feelings" etc etc. Ever since that episode, I left the YoungCho ship because I realized that Young Woo is not being sincere and didn't like Choa. And that was only episode 4. And wow, boy was I proved right big time.

And yes, shows can project what contestants are thinking. That's the whole point of having a PD and editing. They create a storyline to follow and make things more concise and interesting. They have so many hours of footage. Why in the world would they choose to include that specific footage into the show? It's not like they're shooting and airing live. Everything has already happened. The showmakers already know what the final decisions were. So when they edit, they edit knowing ALL the information. They show this show, what, last year? So, again, yes, the show can project what contestants are thinking to create a storyline viewers can follow and understand.

Sure, you can think that I'm blinded by Choa. I do like both her and her brother. Again, what is happening with Ju Yeon is not comparable to what is happening with Choa. Their situations are too different. I like how you skipped all the things I wrote about Jae Hyung never leading Ju Yeon on and drawing a line in their relationship. Additionally, you ignore that Ju Yeon *herself* says she already knew he's not interested in her and that her feelings have been one-sided.

Jae Hyung looking at the ground and looking visibly uncomfortable. Yes, you could see that as rude. I myself would feel hurt seeing someone I like look like that while saying they don't like me. But remember, he didn't call Ju Yeon out to have this talk. He doesn't want to tell her that he doesn't like her knowing she likes him and will be hurt. But what can he do? Ju Yeon brought him to have the conversation that she already knows the answer to. I try not to judge people on eye contact because I know that people who are not neurotypical and people who have certain anxieties have a hard time with eye contact in certain settings.

Also, I never said Young Woo was comfortable talking to Choa. To me, he looked arrogant. I don't like that. He's not very good with his words, either, which makes it worse. I can excuse him being bad with words if the reason is nerves, but it looks like the real reason is because he doesn't want to be fully honest. He wants to reveal some parts while hiding others. That's just my perspective when watching both conversations he has with Choa. You, of course, can feel differently.

Going back to Ju Yeon saying herself that she alrady knew Jae Hyung doesn't reciprocate her feelings before she pulled him for the conversation. Compare this to how Choa constantly gets texts from Young Woo (who himself says he keeps texting her because he knows she likes reliability/stability and wants to appeal to her), has positive interactions with Young Woo without him drawing any line (like at the airport where she is being affectionate), and he himself chooses her publicly for the Singapore date in a romantic fashion. Because of these things, she believed their feelings are mutual. Imagine how confused and blindsided she must be in Singapore when suddenly these things don't seem to be true anymore with little warning.

Versus Ju Yeon who never got all those false hopes. The most she hoped for was that maybe Jae Hyung considered her (which he did, he told her he did try but he just didn't have romantic feelings).

"But Choa liked to make assumption, even after what Yong Woo already explained to her, and gave herself a false hope, but the blame was on Yong Woo? And you're not blinded? He already said that it's just a literal thank you blabbering about how he ate the peaches but Choa couldn't help making an assumption like her habit." This section made me straight up laugh. Please say again how you are coolheaded and neutral? This clearly shows you are not. Also, Choa just wanted to confirm what Young Woo is feeling because everything is confusing. So Ju Yeon is allowed to double check Jae Hyung's feelings but Choa can't double check with Young Woo, who she actually had a legitimate loveline with? Choa also sent her text not to Young Woo, and then based on the conversation she had with Cheol Hyung (which, by the way, happened AFTER she checked with Young Woo about his text), it seems she is already accepting the situation with Young Woo and trying to make the best of the little time she has left by getting to know the other men.

The texts are not for telling someone you like peaches. The text instructions are clearly "Who made your heart flutter today?" Of course it will confuse Choa to get a text after Young Woo basically told her he doesn't like her! Even Choa, after cleaning things up with Young Woo, texts someone else *because she wants to make a romantic connection*. That's the whole point of the show. If he sent a clear text like "Thank you for our conversation today. I appreciated you taking things well" or just "Thank you for the peaches and your friendship," that would be so much better and I would have positive things to say about him. Like I said before, the thing I dislike most about his portrayed character is how unclear he is when communicating. He makes things so much harder for everyone because people have to guess and carefully untangle the meaning from his words.

And before you say, well other people have sent thank you texts like Se Seung and Choa herself, notice that Se Seung is always regretting sending those thank you texts and that Choa's text was very clear why she sent it (Thank you and I appreciate your honesty). Everyone else always sends texts to the person they're interested in because that's the whole point of the show.

What I said was also based on what I understand about Young Woo until EP 14. I don't understand why you are the only one whose perspective is "right" while mine has to be wrong, when I'm also making comments based on all the episodes watched until now. I have had my suspicions about Young Woo since episode 4, that this situation would happen and that he and Choa are not compatible to be together. I'm fully aware that the next episode could show that he is not into anyone at all and just doesn't want to be with Choa etc etc. That's fine. Next week I can watch and think "Oh wow, I was wrong" without any issues. However, until the final episode, all I can speculate is based on what I've watched and the moments I've noticed. Just like all you can do is speculate as well.

You keep saying viewers need to be coolheaded. No, we don't. We can get emotionally invested and argue and discuss etc. etc. There's nothing wrong with that as along as we are not chasing after the cast in their real life. You clearly have you emotions invested as well or else you would not write such a long detailed reply or go through comments to reply and defend Young Woo multiple times.

In your final paragraph, you say this is an edited show etc. etc. I want to point out how hypocritical it is to make this point when it suits your argument, but then earlier claim that the show can't "project someone's feelings." If Ji Won and Young Woo are actually a loveline in the show, then of course the producer will start editing to create that storyline. The editing can go either way, but ultimately, it creates a storyline. Like you said, they have their villains and their exciting moments. They also have their "rising action" moments that create a continuous story that viewers can follow and understand.

Yes, the cast are of course not characters in a drama. However, that doesn't mean I can't dislike the behaviors that are shown. So many of Young Woo's comments are off putting to me. I don't have to pretend they aren't. I don't know why only you get to like and dislike people (because the way you talk about Choa doesn't sound like you like her very much, especially compared to how you talk about Ju Yeon) while if the rest of us do it suddenly we're "not coolheaded like viewers should be" and "treating the cast like drama characters." It's very hypocritical of you

Anyway, it's clear that you are not neutral on Young Woo. For whatever reason, you want to defend him and that's fine. If you watched the show and thought he's doing everything great, that's your perspective.

Look, it's fine if you like Young Woo and are a fan of him, but there really is no good excuse for the way he engages with people. To start, look at what Choa says after the second conversation: "The moment felt cruel... I appreciate he tried his best to be polite, but the fact the he told me was when we reached almost the end was pretty harsh/not right."

Then, later when they're eating, Choa asks "do you know how to make kimchi fried rice?" and Young Woo replies "Not at all." That was an intentional question from Choa, to see if there was any sincerity behind the text he sent her before. And she got her answer: Young Woo is not sincere in his approach to her. Look at her face as he's telling her he has no way of doing what he sent in the text.

His manner of speaking in general is arrogant imo. When he pulled her aside, he could say "Hey, can we have a conversation? I think what I said last night was confusing and I would like to clarify if that's okay with you?" instead of "Let's do it again" as if he's some hotshot who will just get what he wants. Even Choa has to clarify "oh, you mean another talk?" because of how flippant he is.

During the conversation, he straight up lies to her-- clearly he IS interested in someone else, that's part of the reason he's backing off of her so quickly AND going around the house making it public business that his feelings have changed (how rude is that?). He also tries to act like he's telling her for her benefit when really he's telling her all this for his own benefit. It's just very sly and dishonest.

Yes, Choa was glad to have the conversation and relieved to finally understand what was going on, but look at her face during the talk. There are points where she looks incredibly angry with an expression she's never shown in the show. Particularly when he says "I'm telling you about my feelings for your benefit since we have a few days left." The look on her face, wow, pure anger

When Choa pulls him aside later (by asking "Can we talk a little?" with proper manners) after he texts her about the peaches, she says "You know we're at a point in this show where you can't be sending mixed messages right?" and laughs. That's her being critical while also trying to be gentle and mindful of his feelings. She's telling him to stop playing around and confusing her feelings. She also knows from the fried kimchi message that he will send things that are insincere.

Then when she talks to Cheol Hyun after that conversation, listen to what she's saying. She's flabbergasted, upset, and feels like she's been made into a "fool" and a "clown" because of Young Woo. She starts thinking all their memories are worthless and crumbling.

Yes, maybe it is your affection for Ju Yeon (and Young Woo) that is blinding you. Jae Hyung has made it perfectly clear with his actions already that he does not see Ju Yeon in a romantic light: he doesn't text her, at one point he actually chooses "no one" when the option is available to him, he rejects when she tries to be affectionate with him (like asking him to wipe her mouth at the airport), and constantly says that he's going slowly because he's unsure. I honestly don't even know why Ju Yeon needed to talk with him when she can clearly see all these things.

Jae Hyung probably thought the same: it's clear from my actions, why is she still seeking me out for this uncomfortable conversation? Yes he couldn't make eye contact-- he's uncomfortable, he knows he has to say things that will hurt her and is uncomfortable doing that. Who wouldn't be? Ju Yeon even clearly says she did notice they don't have the same feelings for each other and that it's been one-sided on her end. She just wanted to hear it from him that she is not a romantic interest.

He has to say it bluntly because Ju Yeon is directly asking him questions that cannot be answered any other way. What, do you think he should lie and say "oh, yeah, I had feelings for you before but now my feelings are stronger for Ji Won"? No. He told her the truth clearly and didn't confuse her or giver her false hope, like Young Woo did to Choa.

Maybe it's different styles of communication, but it feels like you are mistaking lying/confusing someone as being "gentle" and more bearable than just telling the full truth. Confusing people or telling lies to soften the blow is actually not "gentle" or goodmannered.

In my case, I 100x prefer Jae Hyung's method of ripping off the bandaid clearly than Young Woo's method of ripping it in multiple steps.

I hope so-- our girl really needs to go on a date with someone stable who speaks with positive energy