Ximmich

This is what i was talking to XGourmet too. I also don`t remember a twist, but it may be that for us who read the novel is not perceived as a twist as people who don`t know that much about the source material.
I mean maybe the twist they refer is the fact that Kiyoi will walk away from Hira and stop pursuing him., but this is later . Or about the reveal of how unusual Hira love is for Kiyoi, which people didn`t guessed before.
I mean from the teaser for the next episode there is nothing that looks like a twist for me.

I have the same opinion about you as to why Kiyoi didn`t chose to get involved more, and stop all the bullying in Hira, even through i don`t know if he would be successful. I didn`t think about this more deeply, but you are right, this reason match his personality. Kiyoi hates to be seen as helpless and incapable the most, and he also don`t like showing weakness, crying and be criticizing by other for things he can change and improve on etc, God, he is such a complex character, i love him.
And he most likely tought that Hira would not like it either.
I really liked how you expressed yourself, you are amazing.

I don`t know what the twist people are talking about is, as i didn`t come across people talking about this, but maybe i didn`t perceive it as a twist, (because i already know what will most likely happen) but i can think about one, is probably related to Hira.
Until now we have been given a lot of hints that Hira is not the normal teenager guy, and that his love for Kiyoi is really different from other people and the love Kiyoi has for him. Kiyoi has noticed this from the time they were in school, i mean he is right a lot of times when he called Hira as creepy, but in the next episodes even him will be taken aback by the kind of love Hira has for him and how intense it is.
Hira love for Kiyoi can`t be explained in a few words, he is really close to obsession, and from what i observed is endless, like he would most likely love Kiyoi the most until the end of his life.
I think this is most likely one of the twists people are talking about and the end of the drama should be really interesting and memorable. I am looking forward to what people will think of the end.
The drama really followed closely the novel and CD until now, there were little differences. The differences actually made the story of Hira and Kiyoi in the drama have more depth. I have to wait until the drama ends, but i think this is one of the few Bl adaptations where i will consider the adaptation to be as good as the novel, even a bit better.
I think is because the novel is really different from other novels that were adapted until now, so the drama has a really different vibe from other BLs , which is also why this drama can be perceived quite differentely: like teenagers/young people will not look too much into it, and will just perceive the story at a superficial level ( and for them what happens in the next eps feels like a twist), adult people who looks into details and like to analyze the characters ( and they will most likely be able to predict what will happen next and will not be too surprised) and people who read the novel/listen to the CD ( who will most likely be less surprised and it will not come across as a twist).

You will want to jump through the screen and slap some sense into Hira and Kiyoi even more the next two eps, especially Hira. I honestly wanted to hit Hira at some point in the novel and shake him a bit for him to acquire some common sense.
What happened until now is nothing, the most frustrating parts according to the novel and CD will be in the next two episodes, but the drama should end in a memorable way. I hope so , at least it should be, if it follows what happens in the novel. I loved the end of the novel, it ends in a really unexpected way.
The source material is really psychological. Nagira Yuu, the author of the novel is known for her preference in writing complex characters with traumas and unhealthy issues who will have to work on them to get better ( the character development of her characters is amazing) and dark and controversial themes. From what i observed even through things were changed a bit, the drama has really tried to tell the story as closer to the novel as they can, because even through things were changed a bit, the drama gives me the same atmosphere, i don`t know how to say it better.
Actually from what i read , the novel series that Utsukushii kare is part of ( i mean the novel, as it has the same name), is one of her most light, relaxing and funny to read, as the characters will mature together and be able to be together happily in the novel much more easier than the characters in her other novels.
The relationship between Hira and Kiyoi in this adaptation of the first novel is not toxic, but it is unhealthy. But is not the most unhealthy relationship that can be found in BL, and this is because the basis of the relationship is there, they both love each other for the right reasons, is just that they have to have a serious conversation about Hira perception of his relationship with Kiyoi. Kiyoi is actually a normal guy ( is just that he naturally has a tough personality, and is hard to aproach) . Hira is the one that will prevent their relationship to progress ( even through Hira was the one that liked Kiyoi first) and people will see this in the next episodes.

I will only add some things i know about this that Rahab75 and Nana has not mentioned. What i am going to say is also based on the info i know from the novel too.
For the period that he is in high school, Hira sexuality is hard to define. He definitely likes Kiyoi, he even admited it, but at the beginning it was not in a sexual way, he liked him because he considered him beautiful. But in Hira eyes, the term beautiful is not the same as a physical trait, but the fact that he likes the way he is behaving, his cool and confident personality and the fact that he always does what he wants without being considerate of others, he is the opposite, so he admire these traits in him.
Hira is a really different from other characters that can be found in BL ( the novel is psychological for a reason) , his toughts in the novel are even more creepy than in the drama ( he has really unhealthy toughts about Kiyoi, but in a way who don`t have when he is a teenager, the problem is that it continues even after his reunion with Hira). Hira love for Kiyoi is mixed with this exaggerated admiration and worship, he wants to worship Kiyoi like a monk, at least this is what he tells himself, but is not true, he is lying to himself.
Anyway, in time Hira will be attracted by Kiyoi physically, the masturbation scene is a big hint. I think in the period when he is in high school Hira is confused, because if we think in a logical way, because he likes Kiyoi he is most likely gay, but because he can`t perceive that Kiyoi will ever come to like him ( like his expectation on this is zero) and he also don`t thinks that Kiyoi is someone he can aspire to have/that he can grasp, he don`t think much about his sexuality ( this can be a spoiler for people who didn`t understood Hira character, but it will be revealed in the next eps) . From what i read Hira will identify himself as gay in the second novel, or he has to admit it at least, because yes, he will be in a relationship with Kiyoi so people will see them as a gay couple.
Ask me if you want to know anything else, but basically, a lot of questions left unaswered should be revealed in the next eps , especially the weird and twisted toughts Hira has about Kiyoi. I mean is not that he don`t genuinely likes Kiyoi, because he does, but he needs a seriously wake up call from his made up fantasies about Kiyoi.
Kiyoi asked Hira if he is gay because most probably wanted to know if he is gay as well. Actually Kiyoi was a bit confused too in this period of time about what to do with his relationship with Hira, but he definitely wanted to keep in touch with Hira.
About why Kiyoi asked Hira if he has something to say to him, is because he wanted a confession, but because he didn`t get it, and combined with the impulsive kiss, he was taken aback and he wrongly pushed Hira. He will regret this a lot, we will see this next ep.
In Japan there is this tradition where in the graduation day, people who had liked someone over the years, classmates or people for other classes will confess to that person by saying it directly that they like them or writing a letter. And this happen quite a lot in reality, this is why is in a lot of japanese movies, dramas, novels, manga etc, The reason is that being the last day of school, people have more courage to confess in this day, since they will not see each other again anyway.

😊😁🤗

Nope, you definitely are not alone. The majority of the people who make comments in this page are rooting for Hira and Kiyoi to be together. If you scroll down you will see just how many people are actually making comments defending Kiyoi and still rooting for them.This page has actually grown a lot compared to two weeks ago, as more and more people are writing comments and discussing the eps quite seriously.
Is also the fact that the majority of serious discussions can be found in the comments hidden as spoilers.

I want to share this fanmade MV of ep 4, because is just too well done. It has to be the best MV with Hira and Kiyoi that can be found in youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMOcvTtnyqA

Thank you for taking your time in writing all this. We have a really similar opinion about this. I have a lot of knowledge about the novel and CD, but even if i hadn`t, i will have the same toughts as you.I also experienced a light degree of bullying when i was in middle school, but it had impacted me all the way to high school, because i couldn`t get rid of the feeling of being excluded, and most of the time i was the one who excluded myself, so when i saw you mentioning that the feeling of being excluded is the most hurtful aspect of getting bullied, it has tugged on my heartstrings really. I agree about everything you said about Kiyoi not being a bully. Is also important to understand that things has to be seen in perspective, in my opinion only when someone is actively bullying someone is a bully, not matter what other people opinion are on this. In reality, nobody has any obligation to be nice, kind or good to other people. It`s a person right to choose if they want to help someone, if they want to ignore a person or pretend to not see what it happens. Just because a person don`t intervine to help someone, don`t mean are they are a bully. Taking one decision or another is more about a person choosing how to live their life. People have their own life to live, their own worries and reasons for not wanting to get involved.For me, is obvious that Kiyoi has not been actively bullying Hira. I think Kiyoi knew that Hira will be most likely bullied anyway taking in consideration how awkward he is in their interaction to people, so he tried to include him. By including him, he made him one of the people he hangs out too, and he can prevent the bullying to get even worse. And he has chosen to help him to the end when he has taken his side in front of Shirota even through in the eyes of others he don`t have what it takes to be the "king" in the class anymore and to take all the important decisions. Kiyoi didn`t have to take the decisions he had made and didn`t have to protect Hira in a lot of situations, but he still did it.Also, like you said, when they are alone, Kiyoi is the only person that was treating Hira equally, see him as he is, and he is not feeling pity for him or is acting reserved towards him. And Hira knows this, these are some of the reasons why he liked so much Kiyoi in high school, and why he can`t forget him. I think the feeling of being together with the other, that only them have, is the most important reason of why both of them can`t give up on the other.

Thank you. You are amazing.

Is not fair to compare Koyama and Kiyoi like this, especially when people hasn`t watched Kiyoi POV yet. Koyama and Kiyoi are miles apart in personality, is like choosing to live a totally different life for the remaining of his life, because dating Kiyoi or Koyama will open a future path for Hira that is really different than choosing the other one.
Is not right for us to speak in the behalf of the characters. We aren`t the characters, we don`t have their life experience and we don`t know what kind of investment and feelings the characters have for each other.
We can intuite it, guess Hira toughts, but we aren`t him, there are a lot of times that the heart wants what he wants, and for some people this is more important than any other things. If it was someone else, maybe he would have chosen Koyama, but for Hira, Kiyoi is everything he aspire to be, he is someone he needs to be happy.
Long term, being with someone you really really love than settling with someone else can be life changing to people, especially with a person like Hira, because even when people grow old they wouldn`t have regrets about it. Koyama has his issues too, he is not without flaws based on the novel, but i think they will not have the time to show this.
If Kiyoi was violent or abusive in his relationship with Hira, or someone who will made him do things against his will , yes, i would seriously consider Koyama is better than Kiyoi. But i wouldn`t hope for Hira to end up with him if he don`t genuinely like Koyama, because it will hurt both of them.
I`m also not the kind of person to settle for someone, because life is too short, sad things can happen anytime, and i want to spend the remaining of my life with someone who i really like. I had the chance to settle, but i didn`t, because i felt in my heart that i will not be happy in the future.
Of course is good to see the realistic side of those things too, because not everyone is lucky to encounter someone who they will really genuinely love, a love that strong that you just want to be together with that person, but i`m in the opinion that if is found, it shouldn`t be let go. Of course , this is from my perspective, i understand some people will not agree with my take on this.

I can help you with the CD in japanese too if you are an adult and don`t mind listening to intimate explicite sex scenes. since it has two. It will really change the perception of the characters relationship you have before and after listening to it.
Is enough to understand what it happens if people have been watching japanese movies and dramas from a long time. And you have the spanish transcript to look at, if you are confused.

https://suzumiya-bren.blogspot.com/2021/07/utsukushii-kare-espanol18bl.html?m=1

I will DM you where you ca find it.

This is such an interesting analyse of Hira behaviour . This is why writing and reading comments are fun if they are done in a serious way.
And yes, you are right, most likely lot of people who are watching this drama are teenagers who just watch the drama quickly and move on to other things.

Yes. They are so amazing. God, they deserve an award.

Yep, i want to second this. After the last ep finish airing , people who don`t mind listening to intimate scenes, should really listen to the CD, i promise it will really change the perception of the characters relationship people will have before and after listening to it. But ONLY IF YOU ARE ADULTS OKAY , ONLY ADULTS, because it has some really explicit descriptions of what it happens.Is enough to understand what it happens if people have been watching japanese movies and dramas from a long time. I understood what it happens even more accurately than people who have read the spanish transcript of the audio drama.

People will be surprised by how much Kiyoi will have to do to get Hira to get it that he likes him. I am also really curious just how much they will show.
Hira is really dense, oblivious, like you said he is really really unable to think Kiyoi might like him, and he will not get it even after Kiyoi and Hira do things only people who are lovers do.
He is this kind of dense, i mean even i am so frustrated by him, Kiyoi is a saint compared with me.
There is this scene when i was like WHAT THE HECK DUDE, YOU DON`T HAVE ANY COMMON SENSE. I honestly really wanted to hit him.
This is also why i am really frustrated reading some comments here where
people are only seeing Hira side.
Hira has even more issues that he has to work on than Kiyoi and he is lucky Kiyoi hasn`t given up on them.

Yes. Kiyoi will just have to work harder.
I really enjoyed reading your comment.

Woa. Your analysis is amazing, and you expressed it in a very beautiful way.
I do have a lot of knowledge about the novel and the CD, so i know that all you writed is really close to how Kiyoi personality is and that those are the reasons behind his actions.
As someone who knows what happens in the novel, i want to tell you that you are right about this.
People will see how Kiyoi actually is in the next eps, but i am always surprised by how people are seeing things only from Hira perspective. Is not only this, even if the first eps were not from Hira POV, i still think a lot of people will misunderstand Kiyoi, because this is the impression some of the comments i read here gives me.
I have this impression that a lot of people only read the words the characters are saying and watch the drama only to pass time, without looking at the expressions of the characters, body language, and thinking in context about JUST WHY THOSE CHARACTERS ACT LIKE THIS ? I mean how many posibilities can be, and when you see the order of the scenes, you should be able to understand Kiyoi too, even though the way the story is told is misleading because of Hira POV.
And also thank you for everything you wrote in the comment, i really enjoyed it,

The novel is only at the beginning stage of being translated, it can be found here.
https://kisskh.at/discussions/utsukushii-kare/67669-utsukushii-kare-english-novel.
There is someone else currently working in translating the novel in english beside the translation from Straylations, so maybe i will be available next month. I don`t know more details, i just keep in touch with the translator.
The CD is only available in japanese.
There is only available an CD transcript in spanish.