ammmz

uh im BUGGIN I THOUGHT HE WAS LIKE 34??? how am i 5 yrs older than him??? he is so Distinguished. h8d him in gagnam beauty but i did come away from it at least wanting to give him another try. my mind is blown lmao

this looks good. unfortunately* shin hyun bin is not a great actress at all but maybe it willbe interested enough to be sustained. it sounds really interesting. koo hwan is a realyl charismatic figure and (at least from what i have seen!) could def be an established character actor though and he's really creative and does production so maybe he can bring it out of her! it sounds really interesting and fresh!

*imo

the first 2 eps could have meant this show was gonna be good but here we are why cant park seo joon just do more things that are interesting he's so *_*

it's bad and his char is so mean so there's no point in finishing lmaooo

man....this is so sad LOL

no it's pretty inappropriate in every country and most people don't like it so they don't do it unless they are being lazy casting wise or an actor takes up the opportunity usually not spurred on by their own choice. surprisingly, it isn't great for teens mental health either. this is, also, not part of what the age of consent laws entail or mean. it doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal—that wasn't the point.

it's hilarious

Wyesyesyegdgdbdh yes YES

Take care of yourself, ok? I know this time is hard for everyone but excruciating when faced with things like this. Hope you have a support system as well. Godspeed!

They do! Theyre really cute together, they arent shown as much but they ended up becoming my fav couple.

Learning a lot from this thread—this is crazy! I hope he will be ok. Has he ever talked about having either? I have ADHD too. No tourettes or ticks but i do have motor issues from dyspraxia and being dead tired ans stressed is really messing with me right now. I wondered about the way he moves so it makes sense it is getting worse on top of this being a hard as fuck time in the world in gen. He is sooo young and stress can make everything worse. Also having covid holy shit... Good luck to him. I hope he gets rest.

yes yes! i would love to read what you have to say more :) thank you for this wonderful post. trap is BALLS TO THE WALLLLL it's like horror camp i feel like for these 2 shows people may have expected somethng more coherent but the nature is the craziness. if you do watch i wuld LOVE to see your thoughts. ugh i loved it just as much as this one

literally i walked away for days—i feel you homie! you brought up good points and your perspective was a good balance idk HWHAT ppl were upset about lol

perhaps you thought i meant that just because one group is subjugated another cannot subjugate. that is the exact opposite of what i mean. in fact, it is the point i am trying to highlight. it will never be a part of my politics to think we can evade the things we are surrounded with, that would be ahistorical, non structural, and silly. and i don't explicitly care about the hows and whys in people harming in terms of evaluating an individual and their role in a community but i do in discussion of larger societal implication.

ok that's all i got bud, gotta get off here. hope this clarified some stuff...still confusing i bet but i tried my best mate

i think you are majorly misinterpreting me or i am not being clear enough because what you are responding to is not what i am talking about.

subjugation is part and parcel for objectification which is why we fight against it. i'm not talking about a so-called objectification in a vacuum. i am not talking about that when it comes to 1-on-1. i know who i find attractive—a perf example is megan thee stallion lol—but i have no mind to reduce her to just an object for my consumption.

i never ever said looks were not important to women. that would be ridiculous considering women exhibit the same ills and thoughts as everyone else. racism, patriarchal standards, misogyny, fatphobia, transphobia etc. that would be an untrue and dishonest statement. even for me, i am tall and it’s hard to imagine myself with a shorter man.

subjugation and commodification are congruent because commodity is not only monetary. but subjugation has been based on commodity and is exactly how we experience neoliberalism and capitalism today. that being said, what do you expect from us when we are modeled in that very image?

i’m not sure what your [Star Trek] analogy is trying to denote, i’m sorry.

what i am doing, or meant to do, is highlight that it is all a part of this structure that is impossible to escape. women are not exceptional and they/we can and do harm we just tend to do that least. a clear evidence is with sexual violence and serial killing—there’s a massive component of sheer hatred and abhorrence of women stemming from that. wournos’ has been a rare exception (if women are involved it is part of a cult like group or rship involving men) and she was using protecting women against their johns as an excuse. this has been a trope used in media before because of how accepted pain is for sex workers and women.

by contrast, women harming men is seen as funny most times which is where this ‘exceptionalism’ for women comes into play. it would, again, be dishonset for me to paint this broad brush. waht i am saying is that we cannot escape unless we acknowledge 1. the absolute core tenets of this in society and on a micro level and 2. ability to implicate ourselves and truly think out of the box. women then think it's okay because it has been sunk into our brains that it's funny because men are pure sexual creatures and we are taming them. giving them what they want, what they fuckin' NEED. part of that is our inability to understand that sex is not central to our existence, the point at which drives us, and we cannot move beyond the maximalist position of consent.

of course it is useful to examine [with 2 dudes] it but is it done? well?

women are a whole other game entirely and femininity is seen as the ill. i can link to certain things that make my point but idk how else to express myself. being attracted to a physical appearance is not objectification although it can be IE fans of people on the internet tweeting explicit things to men as if that isn’t a boundary crossing. that is sseeing someone as yours and it gets compounded with other things. there’s an australian actor, half aboriginal, who is very attractive but talked about the mental toll being looked at as an object, and thus owned and only valued for one thing, erodes his self esteem and especially added to him being in an extremely subjugated group. the Sexualized Other which, btw, men have propagated that we have these wild inherent sexualities based off of our race. a lot of them not conservative at all.

now we coudl go far as to say we objectify each other which i am giving a little more wiggle room because i believe, as society is formed, we are meant to compete and that comes with self-objectification and the so-called power of being objectified. this doesn’t mean a highway to hell; it means don’t fool ourselves. i’m not going to pretend that megan thee stallion’s things are more than entertainment and try to shield the pitfalls. i can critique her and be a fan at the same time and not delude myself into thinking an overt sexuality black women are expected to display is better when in the hands of us. it takes stronger thinking than that.

this also has nothing to do with individual formations. the majority of narcissists are men but women are absolutely within that. and what does it mean to be the boss? does she cook, clean, drive the kids, and go to work but it’s a matriarchal lead household so it’s ok? she doesn’t get paid extra for the work; does her husband help her? (if that is indeed what we are talking about and reminder women can be shitty in a non-cross gender rshiP) how much of that is female expectation and excusing so-called normal male behavior. that has nothing to do with a power dynamic that cannot go away just by willing it to. and on top of that relationships have someone who is more willing to take things on, it’s natural, that gets exacerbated by mens’ supposed need to be the most domineering, most together, most sexual,the biggest provider.

you cannot isolate these things. but there is a very good book on women’s role in misogyny and patriarchal formation as a need of survival and upward mobility. there are answers to all of these that lead back to the same old problem of kyriarchy. why would men create that system? because that is the system they are working in “in the real world.” women are not shielded from horrific bullying at all not only that we have been barred from working. you literally will get punished for working not by explicit punishment but by things set up by people and the state.


perhaps people look at you funny, you do not get the financial support from the state you need as a direct deterrent. i don’t find women being CEOs inspiring so i am not talking about incongruency here there is no separation and every interaction has multiple complexities and answers and that is my point. i’m not sure how much more i can say here. it’s hard, and oxymoronic, but the micro/macro interact so much that we seem to forget that the macro is the micro ex: i am a woman, he is a man, we are in a rship, i am an abuser, then that means patriarchal hierarchy no longer exists? nope. how did i learn these behaviors? who modeled it for me and why? what do we account for in white supremacy and violence and how did i come to that? what are things that men do that are not ok for women to do and are seen as the patholigies they are? women love their children because it is inherent right; if they said “ugh i have to babysit these dumb kids” or distance themselves from their literal family the way men are allowed to do then it is absolutely a sin. yet i argue theyre both losers except ONE of them has more of a pass in the public eye. this works for relationships all around and in particularly shines within a dynamic with children. that is for another day.

another ex is when trans men exhibit wild misogyny and when men put their sexual obsession on a pedestal. the idea is that there is always the other in opposition to man and that means many things from colonial structures of gender to religion to group formation we become complicit for survival. doesn’t mean it’s ok. also there seems to be an easiness in which we accept the fact that we are dictated by practices set by others rules and not what we want. why can't it be multiple things that you like? like of course attraction is part of it but that means all sorts of diff things. although women are expected to have lower standards full stop so it's interesting you mention the creepy thing. this is going to sound horrible but i mean it a) to overgeneralize and b) to make a joke but it is truly not that hard for one to sleep with a woman WAY out of their "league." and there's benefits of having an attractive partner which is another weird thing. we look at each other as consumption and competition .

i am not sure why being a man comes with the assumption that, for most, it is all physical yet not playing into male hegemony either. because on its surface it seems ok but when looked at more carefully men talk about themselves as if what they do are immutable facts and not at all behaviors to be challenged. and those very thoughts that permeate in our air, not tangible but existing, are what i am talking about. it is wild to me that it's normal that the first thing men see is someone's looks and that SUPPOSEDLY seems to be a commonality with men of any sexuality. that is a dominant thought and one that is borne out of control (women were initially seen as rabidly sexual animals who needed to be in the house to be contained or we would go batshit hogwild since we're all whores and men are the only ones who can self regulate l m a o)

and a majority of people are also really fucked up in the head and terrible too so there's that.

you can not run away with what is embedded into the world but you can do your best. there’s no ethical living, i don’t delude myself, but all i can do is want a better future. that’s it. these individualized questions/answers do nothing to negate the point i was trying to make they are just arbitrary questions trying to get answers from a system that is set up for the powerful and people are supposed to compete for that. the female site, particularly black and particularly trans, is a prime place for the growth. this doesn’t mean i am not saying we can’t harm or that everything is harmful but when we bring these things up i am not interested in pretending we have no context. a

women are dominant in fashion yet the biggest cultural victims (? idk) and also still not holding power in the industry. i dont give a shit about the industry nor women power but that's a great example. if no one were to think about it you would think it wasn't as disgusting as other things when it /is/ no matter how they fuckin' spin it no matter how many diff types of people of diff races and genders enter it is to serve ONE end and yet women. are. everywhere.

u got it cap'n ;) same extends to you!and ikr....the world is endless in frustration yet beauty u__u

of course! i am the same! but dont let ppl diminish your need to speak!!! lmaoooo i think u know the right/wrong time to discuss more than most. i always think "speak if you have something to say" (no matter how bad yr adhd)

you could see how long my responses were and it's terrible—i try so hard but i can't stop thinking and i edit a billion times because i'm worried i won't get my point across or i'm not being nice or not-selfish enough. i guess our fears really are exacerbated by ourselves haha.

thank you for taking the time to read and reply! i'd love to hear more from you (and other like-minded people since it's unfortunately kinda rare :() i get worried i come on too strong there's just so much to say obvs so thank u!!!! also idk about you but besides working from home there's not much to do these days haha....

also you were absolutely not simplistic and explained further. my worry was getting ahead of me since this is such a dominant thought and a topic i care about (liberation~) not everything has to be said the way i think just because my brain registers it that way? i hope that makes sense? not everyone thinks the same and expresses themselves the same even if we have same ideas and more to exchange and share.

anyway, have a happy holiday if you celebrate! and if you dont still i hope u do sth FUN

"rather than write a treatise about on the structures inderpinning the misogyny," ok i recognize a read when i c one lfoisajfpsoaf my point still stands but that is something for another day. and no we are not disagreeing explicitly but i guess my point would be: why would we expect anything different? and what is the main objection here? is it the words and them being 2 men or the implication on a larger scale? i'm not in accordance with it not being applied to m/m without that part i guess. which would be an interesting topic...not here. ty for ur patience

i abhor the wife/husband thing and will literally turn a show off if they do it because it's disgusting and i get so mad and women are not made to be a sex toy and our likeness is not to be thrown around and co-opted for several fold intersections. and it is insanely transphobic esp for thailand that has a lot of gender formations in the public while degrading them with the words/actions.

woman = hole and a penis in a hole = heteronormative and a woman? no. the way we talk about it which is structured off of a woman's body and what it is SUPPOSED to be and how it should function yet it completely removes a woman's being when discussed. there is no reinforcement of heteronormativity without female subjugation and patriarchal dominance as still exhibited and reinforced by the very people who are supposed to be allies (in this case men and women writing/expressing these things through the patriarchal standard based on hegemonic masculinity and their male dominant fetishism and [potential] homophobia, transphobia, but always VERY very obvious misogyny down to the frequency of sexual violence. they all influence each other.

i have not ever and will not ever like that trope and i will never excuse it as people tend to with "it's cultural" (no) or "that's just the way it is" (also no) but that's also an imperative factor to it and part of the ire because it IS misogyny not hetero-ness as vacuum. if we eradicate what these things are predicated on then it wouldnt be a problem but people are not interested in exploring their own complicity. a complicity, btw, that may have a place for existing. people wanting basic human rights while being part of a still extremely dominant group and structure of thought is confusing. it could obviously compel people to be reactionary or fight against the norm while thinking they aren't the norm. it is NATURAL and understandable but misguided in direction and harmful.

also ofc the allyship is bullshit lol

i'm not excusing it at all i'm saying they go hand in hand so we can't forget one since men created it ergo hetero language but not acknowledging women in that factor is a miss. this is something i see so much that instead of critiquing the core there's a replacement (heteronormativity being growth off of subjugation of women) because we don't want to implicate ourselves. if we remove women does this go away? clearly not since none of us can conceptualize a life without it even if women arent explicitly involved and we think their removal or all femininity via women (the very flimsy solution of "heteronormativity") would be the solution. never lol. tackling these things structurally is key. heteronormativity is the everpresent crushing side effect as long as women are subjugated. if you choose to continue the rest of my comment is below but i despise the wife/husband thing dont get me wrong sry if im unclear