1). The facts. He said some terrible things a few years ago, things that very likely contributed to the trauma of other people. He probably said those things as a joke, not with the intent of being hurtful, but without thinking too much about the impact of what he said. He was 20; that is a grown man, not a child. He told a man to think of being raped as an opportunity (presumably to learn about sex/get sexual experience) and implied that if women are raped, it's probably their fault for dressing sexy (meaning, non-conservatively?). Be On Cloud warned him to scrub his social media at the start of KinnPorsche; he chose not to. Someone on the internet found his old posts and brought them to light; he apologized.
Fans are very divided: A lot of people are calling Build out, saying what he did was unacceptable. Others are saying that since he apologized, that is good enough and "true fans" should let the past go and stop digging up the past.
2). This situation is interesting to me because it really brings to light important aspects of fan culture. First, it is clear that a lot of "fans" see actors and influencers in a similar way to religious/political leaders. They build up a mythology about them (i.e their posts on the internet, ships with other actors, IG lives, Tweets, etc...) and spend a huge amount of time interpreting and re-interpreting, learning as many details as they can. They have loyalty; if a person criticizes another fans "bias" then it starts a flame war in the comments or on social media. Many fans believe that their bias or ship or OTP can essentially do no wrong (except have a bf/gf outside their ship, that's a whole other issue). Just like so many people were willing to look the other way when, for example, Catholic priests were sexually assaulting kids, or KPOP singers were bullying others and/or assaulting woman. I realize these are very powerful comparisons, and obviously, many of the circumstances are different (the Catholic church is much more powerful than your average Thai BL fan, for example), however, the underlying trends are similar: In fan culture, actors/singers/influencers are given so much grace and forgiveness, even when they probably don't deserve it. I see this in sports culture as well, or even in the US with R Kelly, he abused people for like 30 years and only got arrested and convicted in the last year or so. Fans have an almost religious-like faith in these influencers and are willing to spend a huge amount of time and emotional energy on the internet (or IRL) defending them.
So, this leads me to a question: why? Why are fans so invested in the mythology of these actors (much of which is certainly fake and constructed by the actors to build a fan base and become popular and make money).
3. The answer to the question, why?, is probably too complex to answer completely, but I know that one reason is because a lot of fans don't really like regular life too much (and who can blame them, regular life has bills and diseases and loved ones dying in pandemics, and a whole host of other sad things). So they use actors and ships and fan culture as a way to cope with real life stress and unhappiness. I know I love to watch a cute BL series after a long and stressful week; I have something low stress and enjoyable to look forward to. However, for some fans, it goes beyond that.
Just like many people build an identity around a sports team (I mean, if you suggest to a Barcelona fan that Real Madrid is better, get ready for a, perhaps physical, fight), a lot of fans are so invested in there actors and ships that when people criticize the actor, the fans feel like they themselves are being criticized. If you are a BTS fan and someone criticizes BTS, you feel as if they are criticizing you (after all, you are a fan of the best KPOP group ever, so an attack on BTS means that person doesn't recognize your status as ARMY and does not recognize that your fandom is strong and good and the best).
Unfortunately, the problem with this is that it leads people to construct a completely false and unhealthy understanding of who these people are. They are human beings. Most of them are in the middle in terms of their acting skill and talent. They are not the best actors in the world nor the worst. They are average. They don't have any special moral knowledge; they are not learned religious leaders or moral researchers. They are regular people who got popular in a middle of the road tv series. We can enjoy their work without pretending like they are saints or gods or whatever.
A lot of fans struggle with this. They create a world in which their favorite actor is basically a god, who can do no wrong, and they see themselves as priests, protectors, worshippers of that actor. They probably wouldn't use these words, but their behavior is the same. They construct shrines to their favorite actors; they put up pictures, buy merchandise (hello, life-sized pillows and Standees). They read all the words of their actors, daydream about their actor, make art, write stories, etc... The behavior is basically the same as a devout religious follower.
4. This leads fans to excuse bad behavior in a way that is toxic. I would call it toxic positivity or toxic support. They refuse to hear criticism of their actor or ship or OTP. They construct elaborate fantasies based on fan service. In this case, they make it clear that they don't really care that Build said some awful things; As the comments here on kisskh has made clear, a lot of folks just "want people to stop talking about it."
I understand the desire. If BL is your comfort place, it is awful when bad things from the "real world" intrude. But that being said, we have to be courageous, and even when it is hard because we want the beautiful world of BL to stay fantasy so we can love it, we owe the people that Build hurt with this words the respect of acknowledging their trauma, not dismissing it and saying, "well, he apologized, and it was a long time ago, everybody makes mistakes, let's move on."
The fact is, we don't know Build at all. We see a carefully constructed and edited version of him that is PURPOSEFULLY DESIGNED to get fans to like him, support him, watch his shows, pay money to see him at fan meetings, etc... He could be slut-shaming every woman in his family every night and we probably wouldn't know. However, we are seeing a little bit of the real him now, and we owe it to the people he hurt to not sweep it under the rug.
5. It was 8 years ago, shouldn't we let things stay in the past? Doesn't everyone make mistakes? Shouldn't we forgive him, isn't that the right thing to do???
Yes, everyone makes mistakes. I have (although I never told a rape victim think of it as an opportunity, that is a vile thing to say). However, when people make mistakes, they don't just say sorry and move on. If your bf cheats on you, and you stay with him, "sorry" isn't enough. You need him to work to repair the damage he did to your trust and make up for how he hurt you. He needs to change his behavior and become better. Build has literally had 1 day to address this; he hasn't had time to do any of that yet. Did he reach out to the people he said those things to? Has he demonstrated that he has done work to learn about what it means to be a victim of sexual assault? Has he donated to charities that work with victims of sexual assault around the world? I haven't seen anything about any of this. Just a quick, two-Tweet statement apologizing.
I believe people deserve second chances, but not for free. They have to work to deserve them. I haven't see Build do any work yet. Maybe he will, but I don't believe he deserves anyone's forgiveness until he does that.
6. Fans telling other fans to get over it are just bad people. I won't apologize for it. No one has the right to shame other people for feeling traumatized. These fans are just making traumatized people fell worse because it makes them feel like they can't be heard or supported and if they complain they get dogpiled by "true fans' who just "want people to stop talking about it." This is kind of funny though because this whole mess started with Build saying awful things to traumatized people and, surprise, his "true fans" are doing EXACTLY the same thing on the internet (although to a lesser degree). I guess y'all are his true fans. You are doing the shitty thing he did.
7. I will still watch KinnPorsche. One actor being shitty is not enough for me to stop; I enjoy the show and a lot of other people put in a lot of good work. However, if Build tries to just let this pass without truly doing the work to repair the damage he has done, he should be "cancelled", meaning, people of good morals should no longer support him. That's the purpose of cancelling people: to say, we don't owe you our support just because you are "famous" and an actor. If you do something bad and don't work to fix it, you will lose our support which will make it hard for you to be successful as an actor. The purpose of cancelling is rooted in how capitalism works: if we don't like the image that actors are putting out, we can put our money (and support) somewhere else (with someone who is a better person).
Those are my thoughts. Feel free to ignore, read, or comment. You can disagree but keep it civil or I will just block you. I don't argue with delusional people.
So, this version is muuuuuch better than the original, but I have the same problem: Vee cheated on Ploy too, but is acting like it was no big deal, but her cheating on him is super bad. Uh, hypocrite, much?
Ep 11 was disgusting 🤮 I hated it and speed up all the sadomasochistic torture scenes ! It was just gross and…
Did you not watch the trailer, any of the promotional videos, read any comments, the book, etc...??? How did you not know this was coming??? If you did know, and still watched it, that's on you...
I remember there being more sex in the other version...Weren't they basically fuck buddies who would hate fuck each other and then they caught feelings somewhere along the way...???
I wanted to like this because of 石承鎬 because he was in History 3: Make Our Days Count and he is super cute, but the plot is awful. Pointless breakup for him and his man, and then Yuki just moved a bunch of stuff without asking? Weird! To have a "vintage clothes" party??? Boundaries. I would be irritated too!
If only the major family bodyguards had a bulletproof vest too
This. Also, for the record, bulletproof vests blunt the piercing effect of the bullets, but not the force, so Tawan would definitely have had broken ribs and major trauma to his torso from taking 3 gunshots at that close range. So, pretty unrealistic, but hey, it's a TV show, so...
Damn, today's episode was 🔥🔥🔥🔥! My friend and I spent like 45 minutes discussing all of the Shakespearean-motivations of the characters, Vegas's insecurities as the son of the 2nd family, Kinn's desire for a different destiny, how hot Jeff is in a sleeveless shirt with a gun... not to mention the part at the end with Vegas and Pete...
I agree with you. A lot of people act as if every new BL is supposed to be a ground breaking event, and that is…
For real! I don't want *every* series that I watch to be super powerful/emotional. That's too much emotion! Sometimes, I want something nice, cute, comfortable and predictable. And that would be this series <3
I just don't know what to say anymore, other than I think it should have ended last episode. I'm not saying it's…
It doesn't really have much of a plot, although I am interested in seeing how the main couple's relationship develops and is impacted by the fact that they are both divorce lawyers. That part of the story seems more interesting. Honestly, they should have distilled the first 6 episodes into 2 and focused more on this part of the story.
I think a lot of the low ratings have to do with the evolution of the BL genre and that fact that this series…
I'm going to make a controversial statement: The BL apologists are dooming their own genre. They want to keep BLs in this static place where nothing changes and the same 6 tropes are repeated endlessly. There is no future for the genre in that. It's boring, stale, and repetitive. This series had a new, fresh storyline, good acting, good chemistry, the works. The production was a little low-budget at times and it's not perfect (some of the cinematography was lacking), but overall, the emotion was there, and I loved it.
Honestly, BLs like SOTUS are regressive and not even very good. I am here for a new era of romantic LGBT dramas. I like some of the tropes of BL, but that *can't* be all that romantic LGBT dramas are.
1). The facts. He said some terrible things a few years ago, things that very likely contributed to the trauma of other people. He probably said those things as a joke, not with the intent of being hurtful, but without thinking too much about the impact of what he said. He was 20; that is a grown man, not a child. He told a man to think of being raped as an opportunity (presumably to learn about sex/get sexual experience) and implied that if women are raped, it's probably their fault for dressing sexy (meaning, non-conservatively?). Be On Cloud warned him to scrub his social media at the start of KinnPorsche; he chose not to. Someone on the internet found his old posts and brought them to light; he apologized.
Fans are very divided: A lot of people are calling Build out, saying what he did was unacceptable. Others are saying that since he apologized, that is good enough and "true fans" should let the past go and stop digging up the past.
2). This situation is interesting to me because it really brings to light important aspects of fan culture. First, it is clear that a lot of "fans" see actors and influencers in a similar way to religious/political leaders. They build up a mythology about them (i.e their posts on the internet, ships with other actors, IG lives, Tweets, etc...) and spend a huge amount of time interpreting and re-interpreting, learning as many details as they can. They have loyalty; if a person criticizes another fans "bias" then it starts a flame war in the comments or on social media. Many fans believe that their bias or ship or OTP can essentially do no wrong (except have a bf/gf outside their ship, that's a whole other issue). Just like so many people were willing to look the other way when, for example, Catholic priests were sexually assaulting kids, or KPOP singers were bullying others and/or assaulting woman. I realize these are very powerful comparisons, and obviously, many of the circumstances are different (the Catholic church is much more powerful than your average Thai BL fan, for example), however, the underlying trends are similar: In fan culture, actors/singers/influencers are given so much grace and forgiveness, even when they probably don't deserve it. I see this in sports culture as well, or even in the US with R Kelly, he abused people for like 30 years and only got arrested and convicted in the last year or so. Fans have an almost religious-like faith in these influencers and are willing to spend a huge amount of time and emotional energy on the internet (or IRL) defending them.
So, this leads me to a question: why? Why are fans so invested in the mythology of these actors (much of which is certainly fake and constructed by the actors to build a fan base and become popular and make money).
3. The answer to the question, why?, is probably too complex to answer completely, but I know that one reason is because a lot of fans don't really like regular life too much (and who can blame them, regular life has bills and diseases and loved ones dying in pandemics, and a whole host of other sad things). So they use actors and ships and fan culture as a way to cope with real life stress and unhappiness. I know I love to watch a cute BL series after a long and stressful week; I have something low stress and enjoyable to look forward to. However, for some fans, it goes beyond that.
Just like many people build an identity around a sports team (I mean, if you suggest to a Barcelona fan that Real Madrid is better, get ready for a, perhaps physical, fight), a lot of fans are so invested in there actors and ships that when people criticize the actor, the fans feel like they themselves are being criticized. If you are a BTS fan and someone criticizes BTS, you feel as if they are criticizing you (after all, you are a fan of the best KPOP group ever, so an attack on BTS means that person doesn't recognize your status as ARMY and does not recognize that your fandom is strong and good and the best).
Unfortunately, the problem with this is that it leads people to construct a completely false and unhealthy understanding of who these people are. They are human beings. Most of them are in the middle in terms of their acting skill and talent. They are not the best actors in the world nor the worst. They are average. They don't have any special moral knowledge; they are not learned religious leaders or moral researchers. They are regular people who got popular in a middle of the road tv series. We can enjoy their work without pretending like they are saints or gods or whatever.
A lot of fans struggle with this. They create a world in which their favorite actor is basically a god, who can do no wrong, and they see themselves as priests, protectors, worshippers of that actor. They probably wouldn't use these words, but their behavior is the same. They construct shrines to their favorite actors; they put up pictures, buy merchandise (hello, life-sized pillows and Standees). They read all the words of their actors, daydream about their actor, make art, write stories, etc... The behavior is basically the same as a devout religious follower.
4. This leads fans to excuse bad behavior in a way that is toxic. I would call it toxic positivity or toxic support. They refuse to hear criticism of their actor or ship or OTP. They construct elaborate fantasies based on fan service. In this case, they make it clear that they don't really care that Build said some awful things; As the comments here on kisskh has made clear, a lot of folks just "want people to stop talking about it."
I understand the desire. If BL is your comfort place, it is awful when bad things from the "real world" intrude. But that being said, we have to be courageous, and even when it is hard because we want the beautiful world of BL to stay fantasy so we can love it, we owe the people that Build hurt with this words the respect of acknowledging their trauma, not dismissing it and saying, "well, he apologized, and it was a long time ago, everybody makes mistakes, let's move on."
The fact is, we don't know Build at all. We see a carefully constructed and edited version of him that is PURPOSEFULLY DESIGNED to get fans to like him, support him, watch his shows, pay money to see him at fan meetings, etc... He could be slut-shaming every woman in his family every night and we probably wouldn't know. However, we are seeing a little bit of the real him now, and we owe it to the people he hurt to not sweep it under the rug.
5. It was 8 years ago, shouldn't we let things stay in the past? Doesn't everyone make mistakes? Shouldn't we forgive him, isn't that the right thing to do???
Yes, everyone makes mistakes. I have (although I never told a rape victim think of it as an opportunity, that is a vile thing to say). However, when people make mistakes, they don't just say sorry and move on. If your bf cheats on you, and you stay with him, "sorry" isn't enough. You need him to work to repair the damage he did to your trust and make up for how he hurt you. He needs to change his behavior and become better. Build has literally had 1 day to address this; he hasn't had time to do any of that yet. Did he reach out to the people he said those things to? Has he demonstrated that he has done work to learn about what it means to be a victim of sexual assault? Has he donated to charities that work with victims of sexual assault around the world? I haven't seen anything about any of this. Just a quick, two-Tweet statement apologizing.
I believe people deserve second chances, but not for free. They have to work to deserve them. I haven't see Build do any work yet. Maybe he will, but I don't believe he deserves anyone's forgiveness until he does that.
6. Fans telling other fans to get over it are just bad people. I won't apologize for it. No one has the right to shame other people for feeling traumatized. These fans are just making traumatized people fell worse because it makes them feel like they can't be heard or supported and if they complain they get dogpiled by "true fans' who just "want people to stop talking about it." This is kind of funny though because this whole mess started with Build saying awful things to traumatized people and, surprise, his "true fans" are doing EXACTLY the same thing on the internet (although to a lesser degree). I guess y'all are his true fans. You are doing the shitty thing he did.
7. I will still watch KinnPorsche. One actor being shitty is not enough for me to stop; I enjoy the show and a lot of other people put in a lot of good work. However, if Build tries to just let this pass without truly doing the work to repair the damage he has done, he should be "cancelled", meaning, people of good morals should no longer support him. That's the purpose of cancelling people: to say, we don't owe you our support just because you are "famous" and an actor. If you do something bad and don't work to fix it, you will lose our support which will make it hard for you to be successful as an actor. The purpose of cancelling is rooted in how capitalism works: if we don't like the image that actors are putting out, we can put our money (and support) somewhere else (with someone who is a better person).
Those are my thoughts. Feel free to ignore, read, or comment. You can disagree but keep it civil or I will just block you. I don't argue with delusional people.
This series is like a real Netflix series! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Honestly, BLs like SOTUS are regressive and not even very good. I am here for a new era of romantic LGBT dramas. I like some of the tropes of BL, but that *can't* be all that romantic LGBT dramas are.
This one was a solid 8.5 for me.