HJP represents the resilience of man. It shows it doesn't matter how you start, it matters how you finish. It shows us that hard work pays off, being a good boy pays off (hopefully!), and money isn't everything.
NDS represents the part of us we are afraid to face. NDS represents that sometimes, when life is wrong, we either blame others or we blame ourselves. And in that self depreciation, we allow ourselves to be stuck in the mud. NDS represents the side of man that is prone to temptation. When we do one bad thing, it becomes so so much easier to keep doing it because it either feels good, or we don't know how to stop doing it. NDS represents that even if we are supported by the most stalwart of friends, the most loving of parents, we can still feel lonely, alone, and insecure.
HJP represents the hidden strength that human beings do not know they have.
NDS represents the hidden weaknesses that we are afraid to admit we have.
and SDM represents the woman/man who either brings out our strengths or our weaknesses.
his my opinion in Start UP tell now it this drama is good if you think no, so why are we all going crazy? this…
I think a lot of the mistakes you point out here falls on the writers shoulder. Let me explain.
In the writers mind, they felt that most younger people ages 20-30 would relate with a sensitive, insecure, passionate, and someone in tune with their emotion NDS. And on paper it made sense, because most asian children ages 20-30 probably can relate to hyper strict parents who is never satisfied with their children's accomplishment.
But I think they turned the dial on all that young angst a little bit too much. So instead of having a character that was in touch with his emotions, sensitive to other people's plight, and has a willingness to grow, we ended up instead with the NDS that you see right now.
It's not the actors fault in this case, more the writers fault for giving him such outlandish characteristic. Instead of showing us a mature 27 year old, we instead get a 12 year old who never matured past his math Olympiad days in a 27 year olds body.
The thing is, wanting to general audience to go so indepth on the character of NDS to catch that idea and relate to it proved to be more difficult that realized. The biggest reason as you stated is HJP. Because general audience can more readily empathize with HJP than NDS.
Just stay out of the comment section as of now. It’s heated down there, but don’t let it affect you on wanting…
I think the story had potential. Initially I thought Start Up was a mashup between Cyrano and Silicon Valley. But each episode past the 3rd one concentrated too much time on the love triangle, that it losts it's original vision.
I felt at times the writing has wandered aimlessly, and had way too many unnecessary scenes. Also in terms of everyone around them, the amount of screen time being split between the rest of the characters is very highly inconsistent, with some deserving more, and others deserving less.
What started as an interesting premise, eventually devolved into your standard cliche love triangle. The ship wars only serve as a distraction, but the actual show, I would not rate over an 8.4-8.5. As i've seen many dramas that had more complexity, depth, pacing, plotting, chemistry than Start Up.
What keeps me watching isn't the boring plot, but rather my investment in HJP and wanting to see how the writers decide to end his story. I've lost my interest in the main couple as they are destined to follow the typical kdrama plot lines that I have seen done better at least 20 times now.
im not saying this in behalf of all dodal shippers but i tend to comment on a HJP ship IF they bring down dosan…
Why? and who cares what we think?
Answer me this, are NDS fans biased? Are HJP fans biased? Of course they both are, otherwise they would be called Start Up fans...
Why not just respect each others bias?
It's one thing to comment respectfully and have an educated debate defending your side.
It's another thing to lambast the other side for having the gall to support a character that isn't the Main Lead.
So just as a reminder, we are HJP fans, and we support HJP regardless if he is second lead. We want him to end up with SDM, don't be offended by it, that is just how we think.
If you can't deal with us loving HJP, I think something is seriously wrong. You can't force us to love NDS or not see him as flawed >.<
Then that conversation will not be a long one then >.
BTW HJP is completely correct from a business perspective.
A company share structure is public information for investors. So when an investors see that the CTO has 61% share, they automatically become wary, because the CTO is not exactly a board elected position.
This means is that he/she can be swayed, pirated, and influenced, and him having that much share count is a bad image for a company.
Also from an investor standpoint, when you are having a meeting between CEO's having to bring in the CEO shows lack of competency in the CEO's part, due to them having zero to little knowledge of the product you are selling, which gives the buyers less confidence.
An example of this would be imagine a vacuum salesman that brings in a vacuum expert to his sales pitch? Not only is this an inefficient use of labor resources, but it also makes me lose faith in the salesman.
I felt that SDM did a poor job in managing the situation. The hard solution would have been to figure out a way to communicate with the engineers on how to let them understand why a certain share structure is beneficial to the company. But instead, she chooses the easy way out and finds the solutions the engineer wanted in the first place.
She caved in and I feel that was a poor choice from a supposed leader.
Here is how a conversation between NDS fans and HJP fans goes.
HJP Fans: I feel that NDS leaving SDM on a swing alone at night, drunk, while running home to get a suit is really dumb and dangerous.
NDS Fans: STOP HATING NDS! HJP IS MORE DUMB AND DANGEROUS. STOP ATTACKING NAM JOO HYUK, HE IS A REAL PERSON!
HJP Fans: Oh, i'm not attacking NJH at all, i'm just pointing out in the real world, SDM could have been molested, mugged or worse, so it was quite dangerous what NDS did.
NDS Fans: NDS IS SUPER SUPER SWEET GUY WHO IS ALWAYS SUPER SUPPORTIVE OF DALMI AND HJP IS THE EVILEST PERSON IN KDRAMA. STOP SHIPPING HIM BECAUSE HE WILL NEVER EVER END UP WITH DALMI!
HJP Fans: Yeah, i've accepted that Dodal is endgame, so i'm ok with that, just hoping that HJP has some sort of happy ending.
NDS Fans: HJP NEEDS TO STOP COMING IN BETWEEN NDS AND DALMI, HJP DOESN'T DESERVE DALMI BECAUSE HE IS A LIAR!
HJP Fans: Well technically NDS also lied you know...
NDS Fans: NDS NEVER LIED, HE WAS A VICTIM OF HJP MANIPULATIONS!
HJP Fans: Ok sure whatever, agree to disagree.
NDS Fans: NO, YOU MUST HATE HJP AND LOVE ONLY NDS!
HJP Fans: Umm, I kind of still want to ship HJP, is that ok?
NDS Fans: NO, IT IS NOT OK, YOU ARE A DELUSIONAL DREAMER, ONLY DODAL SHIP ALLOWED ON MDL, IF YOU WANT MIJI GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, BECAUSE MDL IS ONLY FOR NDS FANS!
Why does it matter that HJP fans support HJP? Why must NDS fans feel like it's their lifes work to convert HJP fans into NDS fans.
Let me give you some advice, at this point, anyone who likes HJP isn't going to suddenly change to NDS. The fact that the show has made Dodal endgame crystal clear, AND YET MIJI shippers are still shipping HJP shows that they are not going to be swayed.
All I see is toxicity coming from NDS fans. Keep in mind, criticism on NDS does not equate to criticism to NJH or you the poster. So stop getting defensive. HJP fans could care less about how good NDS is, we see flaws in him. Why do NDS fans try so hard to convince us otherwise, and call us delusional. So what if we believe in things that are hopeless, it's called faith.
All your doing is proving that NDS fans are greedy people. It's a big ocean there, but they feel they are the only ship that can be out there.
Also, HJP fans, when they make comments, its to appeal to fellow HJP fans. So don't feel the need to defend NDS in every single HJP post.
Additionally, all these immature post from NDS fans have shown is that the fans are starting to emulate the character they are defending.
NDS fans, just like NDS are:
Immature Insecure Spiteful
Prove me wrong, and maybe try to improve, so we can have a cleaner comment section. Your all embarrassing yourselves.
If your angry there are more HJP fans than NDS fans, then go complain to the writers.
This drama is kinda strange, the role of the 2nd ML feels like the ML and the ML like the 2nd ML. Never suffered…
It's because you have gotten used to the role of the ML being the rich, cold, can't express his emotions, nice behind the scenes kind of ML from older kdramas.
The new modern ML is the sensitive, low self esteem, does bad things because of love, victim mentality, handsome, and clingy ML.
A good well written character, elicits sympathy.A poorly written one, actively begs for it.
For me anyway, especially since we are discussing Kdrama, sympathy IMO is the emotion that most writers are going for, because often times the relatability we feel towards the different characters in Kdrama become harder to grasp due to the fact that Kdrama and real life are quite different. But we as fans are ok with that, since we understand the type of medium Kdrama is.
Now having said that, I feel as a kdrama watcher, if you can relate to the character you are watching, that is just bonus points to you, as you may in your watching, glean more substance compared to someone who can not relate to the character's personality, journey and development.
But, for writers, it's that empathy, sympathy which I believe the are aiming for, as they use filming techniques, tender OST's, and actor/actresses with electric chemistry to tug our heartstrings, sensibilities in whatever direction they see fit.
When the character is not written well, or the writers misread the emotions they want their audience to have, it's akin to being on a roller coaster with the lock bar removed, as one wrong jerk and you've missed the exhilaration of the ride.
I also feel sympathy for both NDS and HJP, it's not like I cannot understand their struggles. But with HJP I just have a larger gamut of emotions. Not only do I sympathize with HJP, I also empathize with him as well as relate to him.
And that's why I think he's a better written character. Now did the writer do this on purpose? I don't know. Is this their intended effect, I also don't know.
Ooof, as a fan of NJH, especially in WFKBJ, the Light in Your Eyes, and The School Nurse Files, this role reminds…
I might be in the minority, but I really liked jealousy incarnate actually lol. But in that one the SL was very clear, and I even felt that the actor who portrayed the SL fit his role well.
Startup actually starts out quite nicely, but somewhere after the Hackathon, it lost its way, and the plot, pacing, and characterization has gotten worse each episode. It's not longer about the characters anymore, or the love triangle, it's the many social aspects being discussed in the show.
It's like rather than diving deep into certain subjects and creating a strong base, they opt to touch a variety of subjects briefly, leaving the audience wanting more but receiving far less.
My post is meant as satire.
Glad we are in agreement :)
HJP represents the resilience of man. It shows it doesn't matter how you start, it matters how you finish. It shows us that hard work pays off, being a good boy pays off (hopefully!), and money isn't everything.
NDS represents the part of us we are afraid to face. NDS represents that sometimes, when life is wrong, we either blame others or we blame ourselves. And in that self depreciation, we allow ourselves to be stuck in the mud. NDS represents the side of man that is prone to temptation. When we do one bad thing, it becomes so so much easier to keep doing it because it either feels good, or we don't know how to stop doing it. NDS represents that even if we are supported by the most stalwart of friends, the most loving of parents, we can still feel lonely, alone, and insecure.
HJP represents the hidden strength that human beings do not know they have.
NDS represents the hidden weaknesses that we are afraid to admit we have.
and SDM represents the woman/man who either brings out our strengths or our weaknesses.
In the writers mind, they felt that most younger people ages 20-30 would relate with a sensitive, insecure, passionate, and someone in tune with their emotion NDS. And on paper it made sense, because most asian children ages 20-30 probably can relate to hyper strict parents who is never satisfied with their children's accomplishment.
But I think they turned the dial on all that young angst a little bit too much. So instead of having a character that was in touch with his emotions, sensitive to other people's plight, and has a willingness to grow, we ended up instead with the NDS that you see right now.
It's not the actors fault in this case, more the writers fault for giving him such outlandish characteristic. Instead of showing us a mature 27 year old, we instead get a 12 year old who never matured past his math Olympiad days in a 27 year olds body.
The thing is, wanting to general audience to go so indepth on the character of NDS to catch that idea and relate to it proved to be more difficult that realized. The biggest reason as you stated is HJP. Because general audience can more readily empathize with HJP than NDS.
I felt at times the writing has wandered aimlessly, and had way too many unnecessary scenes. Also in terms of everyone around them, the amount of screen time being split between the rest of the characters is very highly inconsistent, with some deserving more, and others deserving less.
What started as an interesting premise, eventually devolved into your standard cliche love triangle. The ship wars only serve as a distraction, but the actual show, I would not rate over an 8.4-8.5. As i've seen many dramas that had more complexity, depth, pacing, plotting, chemistry than Start Up.
What keeps me watching isn't the boring plot, but rather my investment in HJP and wanting to see how the writers decide to end his story. I've lost my interest in the main couple as they are destined to follow the typical kdrama plot lines that I have seen done better at least 20 times now.
Answer me this, are NDS fans biased? Are HJP fans biased? Of course they both are, otherwise they would be called Start Up fans...
Why not just respect each others bias?
It's one thing to comment respectfully and have an educated debate defending your side.
It's another thing to lambast the other side for having the gall to support a character that isn't the Main Lead.
So just as a reminder, we are HJP fans, and we support HJP regardless if he is second lead. We want him to end up with SDM, don't be offended by it, that is just how we think.
If you can't deal with us loving HJP, I think something is seriously wrong. You can't force us to love NDS or not see him as flawed >.<
So who is the one starting it or fanning it?
For some reason, NDS fans can't leave HJP fans alone. They need to personally attack them. Why? you tell me why.
This is the case of Mainstream NDS fans attacking other smaller ships because in their mind, there should only be one one fandom, the NDS fandom.
But the ironic thing is the secondary, non mainstream fandom is larger than the mainstream one. And yet we are still being cordial.
Sometimes they get a decent happy ending, maybe even a secondary love line.
Sometimes they get sent to the trash compactor.
Only time will tell which way HJP goes.
A company share structure is public information for investors. So when an investors see that the CTO has 61% share, they automatically become wary, because the CTO is not exactly a board elected position.
This means is that he/she can be swayed, pirated, and influenced, and him having that much share count is a bad image for a company.
Also from an investor standpoint, when you are having a meeting between CEO's having to bring in the CEO shows lack of competency in the CEO's part, due to them having zero to little knowledge of the product you are selling, which gives the buyers less confidence.
An example of this would be imagine a vacuum salesman that brings in a vacuum expert to his sales pitch? Not only is this an inefficient use of labor resources, but it also makes me lose faith in the salesman.
I felt that SDM did a poor job in managing the situation. The hard solution would have been to figure out a way to communicate with the engineers on how to let them understand why a certain share structure is beneficial to the company. But instead, she chooses the easy way out and finds the solutions the engineer wanted in the first place.
She caved in and I feel that was a poor choice from a supposed leader.
HJP Fans: I feel that NDS leaving SDM on a swing alone at night, drunk, while running home to get a suit is really dumb and dangerous.
NDS Fans: STOP HATING NDS! HJP IS MORE DUMB AND DANGEROUS. STOP ATTACKING NAM JOO HYUK, HE IS A REAL PERSON!
HJP Fans: Oh, i'm not attacking NJH at all, i'm just pointing out in the real world, SDM could have been molested, mugged or worse, so it was quite dangerous what NDS did.
NDS Fans: NDS IS SUPER SUPER SWEET GUY WHO IS ALWAYS SUPER SUPPORTIVE OF DALMI AND HJP IS THE EVILEST PERSON IN KDRAMA. STOP SHIPPING HIM BECAUSE HE WILL NEVER EVER END UP WITH DALMI!
HJP Fans: Yeah, i've accepted that Dodal is endgame, so i'm ok with that, just hoping that HJP has some sort of happy ending.
NDS Fans: HJP NEEDS TO STOP COMING IN BETWEEN NDS AND DALMI, HJP DOESN'T DESERVE DALMI BECAUSE HE IS A LIAR!
HJP Fans: Well technically NDS also lied you know...
NDS Fans: NDS NEVER LIED, HE WAS A VICTIM OF HJP MANIPULATIONS!
HJP Fans: Ok sure whatever, agree to disagree.
NDS Fans: NO, YOU MUST HATE HJP AND LOVE ONLY NDS!
HJP Fans: Umm, I kind of still want to ship HJP, is that ok?
NDS Fans: NO, IT IS NOT OK, YOU ARE A DELUSIONAL DREAMER, ONLY DODAL SHIP ALLOWED ON MDL, IF YOU WANT MIJI GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, BECAUSE MDL IS ONLY FOR NDS FANS!
HJP Fans: *click* BLOCKED
There are two types of real people.
The ones who whine, beg, and cry to get what they want. And the ones who just goes out and does it.
I think those types of people would be split by what generation they grew up with as well.
Why does it matter that HJP fans support HJP? Why must NDS fans feel like it's their lifes work to convert HJP fans into NDS fans.
Let me give you some advice, at this point, anyone who likes HJP isn't going to suddenly change to NDS. The fact that the show has made Dodal endgame crystal clear, AND YET MIJI shippers are still shipping HJP shows that they are not going to be swayed.
All I see is toxicity coming from NDS fans. Keep in mind, criticism on NDS does not equate to criticism to NJH or you the poster. So stop getting defensive. HJP fans could care less about how good NDS is, we see flaws in him. Why do NDS fans try so hard to convince us otherwise, and call us delusional. So what if we believe in things that are hopeless, it's called faith.
All your doing is proving that NDS fans are greedy people. It's a big ocean there, but they feel they are the only ship that can be out there.
Also, HJP fans, when they make comments, its to appeal to fellow HJP fans. So don't feel the need to defend NDS in every single HJP post.
Additionally, all these immature post from NDS fans have shown is that the fans are starting to emulate the character they are defending.
NDS fans, just like NDS are:
Immature
Insecure
Spiteful
Prove me wrong, and maybe try to improve, so we can have a cleaner comment section. Your all embarrassing yourselves.
If your angry there are more HJP fans than NDS fans, then go complain to the writers.
I think a solid rating for Start up would be 8.4 - 8.5
Altho the love triangle is tiresime, the chemistry between the ML and FL, pacing, plot are the bigger problems for me.
The new modern ML is the sensitive, low self esteem, does bad things because of love, victim mentality, handsome, and clingy ML.
Welcome to 2020.
Sweetest boy in Kdrama ever.
Now having said that, I feel as a kdrama watcher, if you can relate to the character you are watching, that is just bonus points to you, as you may in your watching, glean more substance compared to someone who can not relate to the character's personality, journey and development.
But, for writers, it's that empathy, sympathy which I believe the are aiming for, as they use filming techniques, tender OST's, and actor/actresses with electric chemistry to tug our heartstrings, sensibilities in whatever direction they see fit.
When the character is not written well, or the writers misread the emotions they want their audience to have, it's akin to being on a roller coaster with the lock bar removed, as one wrong jerk and you've missed the exhilaration of the ride.
I also feel sympathy for both NDS and HJP, it's not like I cannot understand their struggles. But with HJP I just have a larger gamut of emotions. Not only do I sympathize with HJP, I also empathize with him as well as relate to him.
And that's why I think he's a better written character. Now did the writer do this on purpose? I don't know. Is this their intended effect, I also don't know.
Startup actually starts out quite nicely, but somewhere after the Hackathon, it lost its way, and the plot, pacing, and characterization has gotten worse each episode. It's not longer about the characters anymore, or the love triangle, it's the many social aspects being discussed in the show.
It's like rather than diving deep into certain subjects and creating a strong base, they opt to touch a variety of subjects briefly, leaving the audience wanting more but receiving far less.