Lee Gon lost his mother at the age of three. At eight, he witnessed his father's assassination and nearly got…
I was about to respond to charlotte's post, and how in politics having "Dirt" on your opponents, or in this case her ex husband who wants to blackmail her, is just the way to survive the political jungle, so I can't fault her for any of it.
You wrote, everything I wanted to write, and more! I agree 100% with what was written here.
Can someone give me a good argument of why the PM is considered a Villain as compared to being a tragic hero?
Everything she's done up to this point, I don't really consider big enough to carry the villain tag.
If the PM was so bad, Corea would be in ruins during the first 3 years of her term.
An analogy would look like this. LG is LMH, and the PM is a girl linked to LMH, but becaus LMH's fans don't like the PM because she's a bad actress or, they don't think she looks good with LMH, they assassinate her character. That is exactly how I feel the PM is being treated. She's being hated by LMH fans (NOH, the cabnet, most of Corea, except her mom).
Lee Gon lost his mother at the age of three. At eight, he witnessed his father's assassination and nearly got…
PM laughed at LG during the funeral because just like the viewers they felt LG crying was fake. There were barely any scenes with LG and the uncle, plus no real reason they would be close as it is really LG fault the uncle family has to be away from the uncle.
It's breaking the 4th wall really. The PM is sharing our thoughts and confusion.
Please, please stop telling viewers who did not see your views as having missed elements Just because viewers don't agree with your views, doesn't mean they didn't understand the drama. It's pretty condescending.
Stop acting like your the only one who can see the nuisance of the drama. If you interpret it a certain way, more power to you, but doesn't mean people who interpret it another way, or see flaws are not viewing it properly.
Lee Gon lost his mother at the age of three. At eight, he witnessed his father's assassination and nearly got…
A man like LR, becoming so jealous that he plots to kill LG is plausible. But it's only plausible because this plot device exist in many other movies, drama and etc...
A king like LG, being born with no parents, seeing a traumatic experience from his childhood. Being born into a position of absolute power, where he answers to no one, where he is also super wealthy, become a kind and benevolent king is not realistic. In fact in other forms of media, anytime someone has been made a God (answers to nobody, top of the food chain, absolute power), there's always been signs of corruption, power abuse, or at the very least, a mean disposition.
The thing is orphan, people with traumatic experience are plentiful in this world. Especially the subjective way people view traumatic experience. If your definition of Hero is being able to surpass these things and be normal. Then more than half the population are heroes.
Everyone sees trauma differently. For one person, not getting a video game can be considered traumatic. For another it's not having a mom and dad. But if you ask both children, they will feel it's the same type of trauma. Ofc this is an extreme example, but my point is trauma is much like pain, people have different tolerance. But just because someone can tolerate trauma better, does not make them a hero, neither does it make a person a villain if they can't tolerate it.
I feel, if this drama ends, and the Monarchy in Corea isn't abolished, i'm going to be disappointed.
There is one scene in the drama, where LG orders all the peple in the bookstore to be kiled (they are weaponless btw), and literally shot like fish in a barrel. That just proves LG is a King that is out of control, and acts with his heart/guts more than anything. And he obviously feels he is above the law, or he is the law. It was essentially a revenge killing, a crime that in most parts of the modern world is considered murder.
This kind of power only leads to corruption, power abuse and etc...
I think KES constant writing on how omnipotent LG is, and how powerful he is poor writing. I mean let's look at Goblin. Goblin is omnipotent, has all this power, immortal and etc... But guess what, from the beginning, no matter how strong he is, there are rules in place, and he can't just go circumventing those rules, he still has to answer to a higher being.
In KTEM, LG answers to nobody, there are no rules that guide/shackle him, unless you count TE's face as his weakness lol. There are zero penalties for his actions, has there been any negative fallout for any of his actions?
Lee Gon lost his mother at the age of three. At eight, he witnessed his father's assassination and nearly got…
you can't assume this of the PM, that's a pretty big assumption. And how is the PM vicious? Because he ordered the murder of innocent men in the bookstore? Oh wait, that is LG. I believe if LG was born poor, he woud be as bad a LR. See! I can do it too!
One reason this drama reminds me of Star wars and Game of Thrones, aside from the genre, is how it depicts the…
I am frankly offended for GOT and Star Wars fans. You are basically saying that KTEM shows how the villains move from light to dark, or they show how they become bad.
The answer is no. They drop 1 or 2 lines of dialogue in hopes of explaining it, but that's about it. There is no scenes wasted on their character development. Since day 1, they have been portrayed as bad to the bone. PM doesn't deserve this fate tbh.
The mark of a good writer is knowing how to write polarizing villains. Villains you can actually sometimes root for, or villains you may or may not have redeeming qualities.
KTEM's villains are pretty cartoonish, especially LR. Here is the villain handbook copied by KES
Villain qualities:
Must be shown stirring paint when talking to his henchmen, CHECK!
Must be shown with an army of his baddies. CHECK!
Must be shown to kill his henchmen when they screw up. CHECK!
Must kill children. CHECK!
Must be shown to always wear the same clothes, and look like a bad guy. CHECK! Does this guy have any other clothes?
Just a follow up. Let's make parallels of the two leaders, LG and PMOpposition:LG - no opposition, everyone loves…
Yeah, I agree, the PM was really really poorly written. She serves as nothing more than eye candy and as a model for all the clothes/shoes she is modelling.
I really found her scenes to be the most tragic in the drama. From when she was ousted by a room full of men, and no one would follow her leave except by her secretary. Maybe because I can relate to that feeling, I don't want to say more.
How she was betrayed by her supposed advisor. And for no real reason, the guy just decided to switch allegiances.
How she found comfort in her mom's home. How she can finally just lie down in her childhood bed and close her eyes, free from judgement.
How they show the mom collapsed, and that was it, no follow up on how she was doing, they just wanted to show us the one person the Mom can count on, finally judged her daughter, which I felt was so tragic. It was like taking away the last ally of the PM.
How everyone, just saw her as someone who was power hungry and greedy, I never saw her this way. I just saw her as someone who came from the slums, who was just striving for acceptance. She thought when she was PM, she woud finally get respect, but she realized, the only person truly respected is the King, and that is why she strives to reach that position, as misguided as she was about it
How you could sense her frustration whenever the King woud disrespect, lie, and demean her. And what is even worse, as viewers, we can tell, the king either doesn't know he is doing it, or he doesn't care.
I think the PM was not written with universal appeal in mind. Her story hits me, because I can relate, I know the feeling of being a women in power, and yet nobody, even your juniors respect you, because they all feel you get that position for doing something shady, or sexual and etc...
Plus bonus fact, I find it funny that the PM has a higher tolerance for pain than LG. When the PM first feels the thunder cracks she bends down in pain, but the second time she just winces. LG on the other hand, looks like he's giving birth every time it happens.
At this point I'm a fan of the PM actress, she certainly acts better than KGE imo, given her role.
I love how you pointed out how lacking Lee Gon is as a monarch, because I absolutely agree and it's one of the…
Oh, it's more cringy that I expected, thanks for the explanation.
I would rather like to think he was thinking of feeding the royal palace.
He had about 10 staff outside, so they must have been standing there the whole time, looking surprised also?
The 10 staff must be actresses, because they sold me on the fact that they were surprised.
With the amount of rice king was washing, and the speed of how he was washing, it looks to have taken him at least 1 hour to get to that point. Which means, the staff were standing there for 1 hour?
Or did the staff not realize, that the king was there? So many more questions.
LIke I said, I rather think he was doing a nice thing and making rice of everybody, easier to understand, logic wise.
Just a follow up. Let's make parallels of the two leaders, LG and PMOpposition:LG - no opposition, everyone loves…
I'll have to disagree with a few things here.
Her greed and power hunginess as you say, is pretty much in line with how other politicians act. I wonder if you think she is this way, because she is a woman? It's like Hilary Clinton, half the stuff they blame her on is because she's a woman, if a man had done it, it would be par on the course...
Umm, Corea is far from perfect. And even if there is such a thing, a leader still have many day to day tasks that needs to be dealt.
The PM made a decisive decision on how the japanese ships should be handled, but the men in the room questioned her, and says oh, you'll need approval from the king, keep in mind she has had time to discuss off screen the different tactics. The king on the otherhand, "Wut, japanese coming in, we'll let's kick them out!" It was very much in line with what PM was thinking. The King not only boarded one of the warships, but he needed to put up his personal flag to show them, he is there, and he instigated the possible war so to speak.
Think about it, he shoots warning shots? those so called warning shots came dangerously close to hitting those ships. If this was real life, this kind of thing doesn't happen. Imagine if North Korea shot missles to the US, as a warning shot. This would be world war 3 already. If anything it shows LG is not great at diplomacy, more of a shoot first, ask questions later.
If this was Republic of Korea, her political maeuvering would be par for the course. But she's in this convuleted image of Monarchy in Corea, that's why I guess it doesn't look as good. She was just born in the wrong parallel world.
I don't agree that Corea is perfect so we don't need effective leaders, that just doesn't make sense.
Luna poisoned LG, LG finally found out he saves himself, and LR found out LG saves himself for.... reasons?Anything…
I'm a big believer that LG won't be able to go back in time to save himself, unless he has the full flute. Somewhere down the line, Luna and TE are sharing memories. In the last part, how else does Luna know about the white lilies. If not full memories, it's partial.
And there some evidence that both doppelgangers experience certain things, like when eunsup and yeong both got burned by the hot coffee.
So what will happen is Luna will suddenly realize how much TE loves LG, which will make her turn good. She will offer to betray LR and steal the flute from LR, and LG will use it to save his young self.
Otherwise, if you can travel back in time with half the flute, how come in 25 years, LR, as smart as he is, never figures out that he can just go back 1 day before adult LG comes to save baby LG, and just get more guards, or expect it at the very least, even if he didn't know it was adult LG at the time, he could have succeeded in killing baby LG, or find another day where it would be easier to kill LG and his dad.
Episode 13 represented one of my biggest pet peeve in shows, when everyone is exactly in the right place right time, every single scene. lol.
"Besides her mom, she has no one. No friends. She has no one to help her except herself."
This just gave me sad feels :(
I actually believe the person who has the second most power in Corea is Lady Noh! lol
The PM facing an uphill battle. I am constantly surprised to be honest, how can female writers write women in such bad lights. I always thought women, can write women characters better than men.
Here's a little post to shed a different light on the PM, who seems to be much maligned in the show.The show establishes…
Just a follow up. Let's make parallels of the two leaders, LG and PM
Opposition: LG - no opposition, everyone loves him. His only opposition are glares from Noh and Yeong, which he jokes he will behead.
PM - LG, Noh, Royal Family, the cabinet, and etc... Lots of people question her poor ubringing and her decisions. In fact when she wanted to not back down from the Japanese warships, she was questioned, but when the King ordered it, no questions.
Upbringing LG - born into royalty, lives a pretty sheltered life.
PM - born into a poor family
People who loves them LG - Everyone
PM - her mom
Respect Factor LG - everyone respects him
PM - lots of disrespects from almost the whole cast. A few times mentioned she hs 1 year left then she's kicked out. LG himself said, who are you, just an elected official, me? i'm the king, my term is indefinite, history will record my accomplishment, but nobody will remember yours (i'm paraphrasing)
Workload LG - not much, he goes horseback riding, does ted talks, spends time in his math office, goes to parallel worlds for fun
PM - paperwork, coming up with political strategies. She has to update the king every friday. In fact, we often see the PM kinda tired, and wanting to wear the iron face mask, but is always interrupted, the King on the otherhand, has lots of time to go and eat bbq chicken and what not. Also add to the fact that her own cabinet thinks she's just a pretty face who is wasting time putting on makeup and looking pretty.
Political IQ LG - not much, he acts more like a noble king than a politican. Diplomacy is not his strenght, if anything, if he was president of US, he'd probably be declaring war left and right on people who looked at him funny.
PM - more in key of what I consider to be politcally savvy, she knows politics and knows how to get things done, her methods may not be the cleanest, but politics is rarely black and white. In fact, her wanting to marry the king and be queen is really a political move if you think about it, because it marries the two powers, PM and King.
One more thing that I was offended in, i forget which episode, but the PM was suggested, oh don't wear those high heels, people already complain you care too much about your looks. Give me a break, who in the world thinks that you cannot look good while doing your job, or being in a high position?
Do all CEO's need to wear pantsuits? The shows idealized strong woman is TE who is literally wearing boyish clothes more than half the time. Enter a feminine dressing PM and she's lambasted for looking too feminine, thus underming that she is also a strong female character? Give me a break lol!
The thing about charlotte is, I don't understand why she has to put down the villains, to prop up the heroes?
You wrote, everything I wanted to write, and more! I agree 100% with what was written here.
Pretty sad about the scenes of the mom and PM, bec they look so normal and natural, dare i say loving.
I also give props to PM secretary, thats loyalty!
I still don't fully understand what the pm did that was so wrong. The way people acted it looked like she was an even bigger monster than lee rim.
I can't imagine her killing the doppleganger, its out of character. Plus whats the benefit? For a cool scar that acts up during lightning?
Yeah its still hard being a woman these days. Specially in asia, where the patriarchy is strong still.
Everything she's done up to this point, I don't really consider big enough to carry the villain tag.
If the PM was so bad, Corea would be in ruins during the first 3 years of her term.
An analogy would look like this. LG is LMH, and the PM is a girl linked to LMH, but becaus LMH's fans don't like the PM because she's a bad actress or, they don't think she looks good with LMH, they assassinate her character. That is exactly how I feel the PM is being treated. She's being hated by LMH fans (NOH, the cabnet, most of Corea, except her mom).
It's breaking the 4th wall really. The PM is sharing our thoughts and confusion.
Please, please stop telling viewers who did not see your views as having missed elements Just because viewers don't agree with your views, doesn't mean they didn't understand the drama. It's pretty condescending.
Stop acting like your the only one who can see the nuisance of the drama. If you interpret it a certain way, more power to you, but doesn't mean people who interpret it another way, or see flaws are not viewing it properly.
A king like LG, being born with no parents, seeing a traumatic experience from his childhood. Being born into a position of absolute power, where he answers to no one, where he is also super wealthy, become a kind and benevolent king is not realistic. In fact in other forms of media, anytime someone has been made a God (answers to nobody, top of the food chain, absolute power), there's always been signs of corruption, power abuse, or at the very least, a mean disposition.
The thing is orphan, people with traumatic experience are plentiful in this world. Especially the subjective way people view traumatic experience. If your definition of Hero is being able to surpass these things and be normal. Then more than half the population are heroes.
Everyone sees trauma differently. For one person, not getting a video game can be considered traumatic. For another it's not having a mom and dad. But if you ask both children, they will feel it's the same type of trauma. Ofc this is an extreme example, but my point is trauma is much like pain, people have different tolerance. But just because someone can tolerate trauma better, does not make them a hero, neither does it make a person a villain if they can't tolerate it.
There is one scene in the drama, where LG orders all the peple in the bookstore to be kiled (they are weaponless btw), and literally shot like fish in a barrel. That just proves LG is a King that is out of control, and acts with his heart/guts more than anything. And he obviously feels he is above the law, or he is the law. It was essentially a revenge killing, a crime that in most parts of the modern world is considered murder.
This kind of power only leads to corruption, power abuse and etc...
I think KES constant writing on how omnipotent LG is, and how powerful he is poor writing. I mean let's look at Goblin. Goblin is omnipotent, has all this power, immortal and etc... But guess what, from the beginning, no matter how strong he is, there are rules in place, and he can't just go circumventing those rules, he still has to answer to a higher being.
In KTEM, LG answers to nobody, there are no rules that guide/shackle him, unless you count TE's face as his weakness lol. There are zero penalties for his actions, has there been any negative fallout for any of his actions?
The answer is no. They drop 1 or 2 lines of dialogue in hopes of explaining it, but that's about it. There is no scenes wasted on their character development. Since day 1, they have been portrayed as bad to the bone. PM doesn't deserve this fate tbh.
The mark of a good writer is knowing how to write polarizing villains. Villains you can actually sometimes root for, or villains you may or may not have redeeming qualities.
KTEM's villains are pretty cartoonish, especially LR. Here is the villain handbook copied by KES
Villain qualities:
Must be shown stirring paint when talking to his henchmen, CHECK!
Must be shown with an army of his baddies. CHECK!
Must be shown to kill his henchmen when they screw up. CHECK!
Must kill children. CHECK!
Must be shown to always wear the same clothes, and look like a bad guy. CHECK! Does this guy have any other clothes?
Its not hard to write 1D villains.
I really found her scenes to be the most tragic in the drama. From when she was ousted by a room full of men, and no one would follow her leave except by her secretary. Maybe because I can relate to that feeling, I don't want to say more.
How she was betrayed by her supposed advisor. And for no real reason, the guy just decided to switch allegiances.
How she found comfort in her mom's home. How she can finally just lie down in her childhood bed and close her eyes, free from judgement.
How they show the mom collapsed, and that was it, no follow up on how she was doing, they just wanted to show us the one person the Mom can count on, finally judged her daughter, which I felt was so tragic. It was like taking away the last ally of the PM.
How everyone, just saw her as someone who was power hungry and greedy, I never saw her this way. I just saw her as someone who came from the slums, who was just striving for acceptance. She thought when she was PM, she woud finally get respect, but she realized, the only person truly respected is the King, and that is why she strives to reach that position, as misguided as she was about it
How you could sense her frustration whenever the King woud disrespect, lie, and demean her. And what is even worse, as viewers, we can tell, the king either doesn't know he is doing it, or he doesn't care.
I think the PM was not written with universal appeal in mind. Her story hits me, because I can relate, I know the feeling of being a women in power, and yet nobody, even your juniors respect you, because they all feel you get that position for doing something shady, or sexual and etc...
Plus bonus fact, I find it funny that the PM has a higher tolerance for pain than LG. When the PM first feels the thunder cracks she bends down in pain, but the second time she just winces. LG on the other hand, looks like he's giving birth every time it happens.
At this point I'm a fan of the PM actress, she certainly acts better than KGE imo, given her role.
I would rather like to think he was thinking of feeding the royal palace.
He had about 10 staff outside, so they must have been standing there the whole time, looking surprised also?
The 10 staff must be actresses, because they sold me on the fact that they were surprised.
With the amount of rice king was washing, and the speed of how he was washing, it looks to have taken him at least 1 hour to get to that point. Which means, the staff were standing there for 1 hour?
Or did the staff not realize, that the king was there? So many more questions.
LIke I said, I rather think he was doing a nice thing and making rice of everybody, easier to understand, logic wise.
LR is actually the true blood son of LG grandfather, but since he was too evil, the grandfather decided to designate LG dad as his succesor.
Shinjae is the son of LR. He shoots his father (because guns > swords), then claims his rightful place as the King of Corea with Luna as his queen.
Shinjae having grown up in Republic of Korea, converts Corea into a REAL monarchy, and appoints PM as a true PM.
LG and TE decided to marry and live in the fantasy space with the balloons and thunder.
The End
Her greed and power hunginess as you say, is pretty much in line with how other politicians act. I wonder if you think she is this way, because she is a woman? It's like Hilary Clinton, half the stuff they blame her on is because she's a woman, if a man had done it, it would be par on the course...
Umm, Corea is far from perfect. And even if there is such a thing, a leader still have many day to day tasks that needs to be dealt.
The PM made a decisive decision on how the japanese ships should be handled, but the men in the room questioned her, and says oh, you'll need approval from the king, keep in mind she has had time to discuss off screen the different tactics. The king on the otherhand, "Wut, japanese coming in, we'll let's kick them out!" It was very much in line with what PM was thinking. The King not only boarded one of the warships, but he needed to put up his personal flag to show them, he is there, and he instigated the possible war so to speak.
Think about it, he shoots warning shots? those so called warning shots came dangerously close to hitting those ships. If this was real life, this kind of thing doesn't happen. Imagine if North Korea shot missles to the US, as a warning shot. This would be world war 3 already. If anything it shows LG is not great at diplomacy, more of a shoot first, ask questions later.
If this was Republic of Korea, her political maeuvering would be par for the course. But she's in this convuleted image of Monarchy in Corea, that's why I guess it doesn't look as good. She was just born in the wrong parallel world.
I don't agree that Corea is perfect so we don't need effective leaders, that just doesn't make sense.
And there some evidence that both doppelgangers experience certain things, like when eunsup and yeong both got burned by the hot coffee.
So what will happen is Luna will suddenly realize how much TE loves LG, which will make her turn good. She will offer to betray LR and steal the flute from LR, and LG will use it to save his young self.
Otherwise, if you can travel back in time with half the flute, how come in 25 years, LR, as smart as he is, never figures out that he can just go back 1 day before adult LG comes to save baby LG, and just get more guards, or expect it at the very least, even if he didn't know it was adult LG at the time, he could have succeeded in killing baby LG, or find another day where it would be easier to kill LG and his dad.
Episode 13 represented one of my biggest pet peeve in shows, when everyone is exactly in the right place right time, every single scene. lol.
But he is washing a whole sack of rice... Why? is he planning on cooking rice for a buffet? or plans to feed the whole palace?
This just gave me sad feels :(
I actually believe the person who has the second most power in Corea is Lady Noh! lol
The PM facing an uphill battle. I am constantly surprised to be honest, how can female writers write women in such bad lights. I always thought women, can write women characters better than men.
Opposition:
LG - no opposition, everyone loves him. His only opposition are glares from Noh and Yeong, which he jokes he will behead.
PM - LG, Noh, Royal Family, the cabinet, and etc... Lots of people question her poor ubringing and her decisions. In fact when she wanted to not back down from the Japanese warships, she was questioned, but when the King ordered it, no questions.
Upbringing
LG - born into royalty, lives a pretty sheltered life.
PM - born into a poor family
People who loves them
LG - Everyone
PM - her mom
Respect Factor
LG - everyone respects him
PM - lots of disrespects from almost the whole cast. A few times mentioned she hs 1 year left then she's kicked out. LG himself said, who are you, just an elected official, me? i'm the king, my term is indefinite, history will record my accomplishment, but nobody will remember yours (i'm paraphrasing)
Workload
LG - not much, he goes horseback riding, does ted talks, spends time in his math office, goes to parallel worlds for fun
PM - paperwork, coming up with political strategies. She has to update the king every friday. In fact, we often see the PM kinda tired, and wanting to wear the iron face mask, but is always interrupted, the King on the otherhand, has lots of time to go and eat bbq chicken and what not. Also add to the fact that her own cabinet thinks she's just a pretty face who is wasting time putting on makeup and looking pretty.
Political IQ
LG - not much, he acts more like a noble king than a politican. Diplomacy is not his strenght, if anything, if he was president of US, he'd probably be declaring war left and right on people who looked at him funny.
PM - more in key of what I consider to be politcally savvy, she knows politics and knows how to get things done, her methods may not be the cleanest, but politics is rarely black and white. In fact, her wanting to marry the king and be queen is really a political move if you think about it, because it marries the two powers, PM and King.
One more thing that I was offended in, i forget which episode, but the PM was suggested, oh don't wear those high heels, people already complain you care too much about your looks. Give me a break, who in the world thinks that you cannot look good while doing your job, or being in a high position?
Do all CEO's need to wear pantsuits? The shows idealized strong woman is TE who is literally wearing boyish clothes more than half the time. Enter a feminine dressing PM and she's lambasted for looking too feminine, thus underming that she is also a strong female character? Give me a break lol!