Jackie the Penguin

wow did not know this, constance acts so young, I figured she's early 30'sand SYJ is like almost 40's

wait, what do you mean it's the women themselves fault?

Oh didn't know the 2nd ML had controversies too.

I don't think anyone in their right mind will compare LMH with LBH, it's not even a fair contest. You do know LMH has like one look, he's a lot like zoolander.

Suzy can't act. The top acting idols are either DO or IU.

How Scar Jo became an A-lister boggles my mind still, I don't get what her appeal is. It's like people saying Jen Lawrence is better than Meryl Streep. Oh yeah lol, i forgot about Morgan Freeman.

I follow SYJ on instagram, and I don't understand why she would want international appeal in the west. Like I get Bae Doona, as she spends a decent amount of time outside Korea. But I just don't see SYJ being ok with being away from Korea for a big amount of time every year if she gets big in the west. Plus the from westerners point of view, they are not really going to love the older beauty of SYJ, they want their Asians as either dolls, like Bae Doona, or younger and spunky like Constance Wu. Not sure if SYJ will get any traction out west.

Your dislike for Sam is huge, what did he do to you LOL. But I agree, no point in Sam becoming popular in Asia,when he doesn't exactly have that charisma and star power. Well the plot isn't set in stone yet, so a lot can happen. But I pray this isn't going to be another the Last Samurai with Tom Cruise, where the only role of the japanese lady was to be his love interest, that would be disappointing.

Umm, SYJ is suppose to speak english in most of the film. So if you've heard her speak english, you'll know it's not even Byung Hun or Bae Doona level, so she's already going to be contributing to this asian stereotype unfortunately. I would also support seeing sam be supporting ang let LSk and SYJ be main, but alas this isn't a Kdrama/movie, it's a hollywood sci film, which means more bit parts for the asians.

Blame the agency that SYJ and LSK are in, william morris, the same one Honey Lee just joined. They are not looking for good movies for their talent, just more token asian stuff. But rather than using local token asian, they want imported token asian to bring in more viewers. It's frustrating, I agree.

don't get me wrong, I didn't like BOF either, and when I watched meteor garden (old one), i wanted the FL to end with the 2nd ML. I'm just saying, psychologically, this is why BOF is beloved in Asia. And many began their love affair with lee min ho from this one. It's quite sad that the FL in this one is mired in so much controversy, I feel bad for her, she's like way more talented than lee min ho too, writer, singer, song writer, poet, director, and producer. Her professional resume dwarfs lee min ho, but she doesn't have much acting credits unfortunately.

Yeah not sure what happened to Sam, after terminator and avatar, both in 2009, he didn't appear in better films. Like he was in clash of the titans and it's sequel, which I thought was ok, then nothing much after those. It's like people forgot his potential as an action star. I checked his filmography, I barely recognize any of the films he was in form 2011-2020, except for hacksaw ridge and maybe cake.

But, I still remember him for his role in Avatar, and maybe that's the problem, if the sequels for Avatar were to come out, he would be recognized a bit more.

Starring with so called A-listers isn't a guarantee of success, less we forget Lucy. Choi Min Sik, arguably one of the all time great korean actors of our lifetime was completely wasted in that film, opposite, Scarlett "I Can't Act" Johansen.

your right, it only takes 1 movie to be an A lister. I mean look at RDJ, before Iron Man, everyone had forgotten about him.

But this movie with SYJ and LSK doesn't sound like it will help push the benchmark for Sam to be an A lister. He needs a bonafide blockbuster by either a Steven Spielberg, a franchise like Star Wars, or a mega expensive production like Avatar to get back in the limelight. Otherwise,this is just going to be another film, even worse if it's a netflix film. I can't even remember the last Netflix film that was good.

But in the end it will depend on the plot. Like the quiet place was really good, and unique. So if this movie The Cross can offer something never seen before and what not, then maybe it would be a good move. If it's another rehashed sci-fi story, that barely get's viewed in theaters, then good luck to SYj and LSK.

BOF main appeal has always been that is paints a very clear, although hyper unrealistic picture, of a Rich man wanting to date/marry a not so good looking, poor, and spunky girl.

The original meteor garden probably was partially responsible for this misogynistic theme being rinse and repeated all over Asia.

The idea of a Rich man marrying a poor girl is much more realistic in western culture as compared to eastern culture, where all it takes is working in the same circle, or going to the same school, or heck even clubbing. Take Prince William and Kate Middleton for example. Kate Middleton's family were not poor, but not comparable to the status of Prince William. But since they just so happen to go to the same school, it was very attainable.

In eastern culture, where the wealth gap is so huge, these chance meetings are near impossible. The wealthy typically go to expensive private school, and the poor go to public schools. The rich tends to marry the rich.

So these type of shows give the poor hope, that they can escape their impoverished situation by a chance, fated encounter with a handsome Chaebol. But in reality, especially in Asia, with so much poverty this is hard to see happen in real life.

The more realistic path of a poorer person marrying a rich man come in the form of either Models, Air Stewardess, Real Estate Professionals, and Secretaries. These jobs places you in prime position to maybe have a chance meeting with some of these rich men to fall in love and marry them, but even then the chances are still small.

In the end BOF and it's many iterations teaches the wrong lesson to young women. But unfortunately in patriarchal Asia, this is still a dream for many poorer women in Asia, so these type of dramas still find an audience. You'll notice, more educated and empowered women hate these type of dramas.

rating is 8.1 on average.

I actually liked the heirs more than this.

a little bit harsh

To be fair Sam Worthington was supposed to be borderline A star actor, but it took waaaayyyy too long to get the sequels of Avatar made, so people lost interest in him. But I feel once avatar 2,3,4,5 comes out, he'll be back in the conversation again.

To be honest, none of the Korean actors have made the best transition into Hollywood as compared to Chinese, HK and even Japanese stars. There are just so much local korean talent in Hollywood, there is no real need to import. Like Sandra Oh, Daniel Dae Kim and John Cho just to name a few. I mean the only reason to import some of these actors is in hopes to have their movies/tv shows have a more international reach, but even then, these imports for the most part are doing bit parts.

To be honest, Lee Byung Hun, Bae Doona and Han Hyu Joo don't really bring anything to the table other than being Korean, but like I said, theres plenty of local actors that can do the same thing. At least imports like Jet Li and Jackie Chan bring in martial arts training and experience.

But I agree with you, Son Ye Jin is a bonafide star, she can afford to be like JJH and start dumping bad scripts and movies. She should never be a Hwang Jung Eum, who seems to just grab and accept every script that comes her way.

I also discovered Kdrama not too long ago. I am a big watcher of anime, and felt that kdramas couldn't compare in terms of complexity of stories and plot. But then I realized that kdrama is a whole different beast, and appeals to another part of my brain.

Things like chemistry, skinship and etc... can only be found in Kdrama and not as present in anime. I still watch a decent amount of anime, but I split my time with Kdrama these days, and some kmovies in between.

I watched the original taiwanese version, so I didn't bother with BOF.

I don't think TVN makes shows that caters to an international audience, that wouldn't make too much sense, since the international audiences don't pay TVN, local subscribers do. Cable dramas goal is to increase the amount of subscribers via interesting content, similar to the netflix business model. AFAIK, TVN subscriptions are only offered in SK, correct me if i'm mistaken. It's more of an windfall if anything, as hallyu continually grows, and these top stars gain more attention.

They purposely go in with a higher production budget, and choose well known actors to convince people that TVN is a legitimate company, and can draw in big names. This is similar to netflix back in the day. Netflix original content needed to get in B list actors at the very least for it's original programming, and as time passed by, they were slowly able to get A list actors, increasing it's legitimacy as a TV killer.

The reason lee min ho appears more famous than gong yoo is age. A lot of of new kdrama fans has probably never watched shows like Winter Sonata, Autumn in the Snow, Something Happened in Bali and etc... Their first drama is probably Boys over Flowers, healer, moon emracing the sun and etc... So it makes sense that the popular stars now are the ones in the same age range as LMH. Plus a lot of these millennial fans are users of instagram, the single most quantifiable metric of popularity. If instagram was huge back in Gong Yoo's time, who knows how popular he can be. Also add to the fact that many idols can't act to save their lives, but they are still immensely popular and are still getting scripts/roles left and right. I think IU is a standout here, she might have started out bad, but has quickly proven she has acting chops. I'd also consider D.O.

Hmm, I disagree here, internationally, korean movies have been doing really well in the critics circle. Korean thrillers have long been a staple in most critics must watch list, with movies like the man from nowhere, oldboy, JSA and etc...My sassy girl was an global phenomenon. Their different I would say, and not all movie actors translate to drama and vice versa.

I'm a big movie fan, so I recognize son ye jin over park shin hye. Son ye jin actually focused more on movies than dramas. I really think it depends on which fans you consider. I know plenty of people who prefer to watch movie over drama because it's shorter and vice versa.

If lee min ho has taught us anything, you don't need acting skills to be popular.

IC finale, averaged around 18%, so pretty close.

Yes for now they do. A lot of actresses, specially the older ones, are not so concerned about international reach, and would rather cater to their local audience, which terrestrial dramas will reach more of.

in general, I believe cable dramas cost more than terrestrial dramas. It could be biggest a bigger paycheck was paid to get these stars, considering the market reach is smaller, or it could be that the cable companies have bigger budgets for these dramas. Take netflix for example, in the west, they spend on average 70-80M for 1 season of a new tv show. In korea its substantially less, but then if you look at the top 10 most expensive Kdrama, a majority of them are on cable tv drama.

it's a toss up for stars. Go to terrestrial drama, and MAYBE get huge viewing numbers, and better local acknowledgement, but as you said, normally more average scripts. Or, go to cable dramas with bigger budget, more international reach, and arguably better script writing, since the bigger production budget allows the envelope to be pushed more.

I think it's interesting that so far in 2020, I think no drama has broken the 20% mark in terms of terrestrial drama. Not counting the weekend shows. While for cable dramas, CLOY, TWOTM and IC comes to mind.

Streaming numbers are still quite low in SK as most of the top OTT options are not free. As of 2020, the total number of OTT subscriptions sit at approx 7M accounts, with the largest ones being netflix and wavve. And i'm not sure if those numbers only represent SK or globally, the articles were not clear on it.

One thing is for sure though, a majority of the highest costing Kdrama has been on cable television. I think ever since Goblin, stars have been more amenable and willing to take cable show scripts as they normally come with a decent sized budget, and seems easier to sell it's viewing rights to streaming companies like netflix. And although public broadcasting has shown to be a good platform to get your name out there with a higher percentage of the viewing population, times have change. Numerous hits in cable have been seeping out and gaining popularity in the general public. These days, kdrama's hoping for a home run are expecting 15% on a cable company like TVN for example. Which is why it's ok not to be ok is considered under performing in it's run.

And as seen in a lot of comment since cable drama shows, even if the acting is good, or the plot is no good, fans still love thingsl ike costume design, costume, cinematography, production values, and OST. All things that benefit from a higher production budget, which it seems cable drama company are providing in aplenty.

With the dawn of the larger and younger viewing audience, we will see the trend towards cable drama grow even more as the younger viewing population has shorter and shorter attention span. This means that dramas with poor CGI, special effects, production values, will fail to capture their attention. And shows like Hospital Playlist for example, will be less popular among the younger viewing audience. Unless publicly available Kdrama starts dropping on huge budgets, which I just don't see happening.

wait, so how many worlds are we talking about now? I thought there was only two. Sorry if I cannot understand your explanation, it is just giving me headache now.

I tried to love it, but I found it too confusing, so I just watched for woo do hwan and the OST is fantastic.

so in short, enjoyable drama, but not a masterpiece?

There are a lot of Goblin elements, that the writer borrowed, the king is like a poorer version of Goblin. And yes! I thought i was the only one who noticed that kim go eun looks like eun tak, not much difference. At least in cheese in the trap her hair was orange.

wait, why would a1 be there? And if he is there, where is he now?

so a1 belongs to another world? what is B world?

Ok you lost me again, lol. I am getting a headache.

I'm not so sure, at first I thought because most of their fanbase are like younger people, thus immature. But it's not, I think their fanbase are mostly mid to older millenials. so it's a mystery to me.