BadPenny

I don't owe you shit in the way of explanations. Not Really.

But I HAVE been perfectly transparent about why I rated Tharntype that way. If you missed it there's an easy way to figure it out. I'll let you work on what that might be. And I've also been very clear why I'm here too. Like, I've said it numerous times.

yeah, Foei is like a creepy voyeur.

You said this really well. Normalizing the fear and anxiety. I have been looking for a way to describe the nauseating unraveling of Kuea who started out a rather put together person and became a sweaty, teary-eyed squirrel after being forced to move into Lian's house. You said it beautifully.

You nailed it. That's the prevalent "kink" here. The whole "dark daddy is going to control your life" kink, only done really badly and with a third of the context or consequences to actually pull it off. I think the analogy about a 13 year old girl having written the original content is probably very apropos.

That is some class act succinctness. Right to the point and perfectly on the mark.

Pretty much. If I were Kuea I'd have left a dear psycho letter and been gone.

If you have to read a novel to fill in and explain the show then the show is a flop.

I don't mind a relationship having to grow into itself. But it helps when both people come at it with mutual respect and at least a margin of good will.

I always give a side eye to people who open with "I normally don't do this, but...". That's right up there with "I don't mean to be offensive, but..." and my personal favorite, "This may sound racist (homophobic, trans-phobic, misogynistic, etc) and I'm totally not like that, but...". If you have to preface what you're about to say it's a solid indication that the exact thing you're denying is probably in fact the case. You obviously had something to say, the qualifier didn't buffer that in the least. Whether you do it regularly is irrelevant and was only added in there to make you seem less confrontational while you were in fact being confrontational.

However, It's all cool. You don't have to work so hard. I obviously don't have a problem with confrontation.

I watched the disturbing scene several times just in order to be sure that I had the exact facts right. And I explained that before, so I'm not exactly sure how you missed it. I literally said "I watched the scenes several times to be very clear on the facts of the events." Not to win an argument, to be clear on exactly what occurred. It was useful to make sure I hadn't missed anything that would reframe the context of the moment.

The rewatches of that scene had nothing to do with this debate. I did my rewatching mere moments after I originally saw the episode. Some friends and I were watching ep 7 together and there was a discussion between us on whether Toh was asleep or drunk!unconscious when Nuea decided to polish Toh's tool. Not that one is less or more awful than the other. And being the precise sort that I am, I chose to re-watch from the moment Toh ate the mushroom forward up until the fade to black, more than once, in order to know for sure exactly how shitty Nuea's behavior really was. So see, it was all perfectly practical. Perhaps instead of worrying yourself about why I would rewatch a crappy non-con scene, you might just ask first.

And I also already stated that despite thinking the show is ridiculous and that the lead couple are a nightmare cocktail, I like Sky/Jao a lot. I'm totally down for their adorable dynamic and their body positivity. I'm pretty clearly putting up with Team TrainWreck just in order to see them. And also probably to see how the whole Intouch/Daisy thing works out.

Hopefully that clears up your concern for me.

Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed it.

And as for "written by a 13 year old girl..." Hey, it would explain a LOT. This story almost reminds me of the fad in teenage girls after The Suicide Squad was released in theaters. Tons of teenage girls all flocked to the internet like horny geese all going "I want a love like Harley and Jokers!". No, you dumb-ass children, you really don't.

And in the case of Cutie Pie we have these blatantly toxic, imbalanced, really vile relationships and it has that same "teenagers love to feitishize unhealthy stuff they don't understand" vibe.

Thank you much! Part of the process is usually entertainment as much as review. With this drama I find myself just snarking.

Zee was MUCH better in Why R U. The plot had iffy areas to be sure. But his acting was much more emotive. The scene of Tor and Fighter's forced breakup was brilliant. Zee in this has been very luke warm, even when he's rocking the creepy.

You don't lie.

Uh No, he had to be carried away from the fucking table. In fact, his friend squad were all freaked out and specifically categorized his eating mushrooms as that thing that makes him drunk and knocks his ass out. And even had they not, Toh was limp like a dead snake until Captain Creeper brought him around by rubbing up on his dick.

I watched the scenes several times to be very clear on the facts of the events.

And I'm not going to debate consent with you. I know exactly how consent is defined as related to Thai penal code because I ran into a bunch of whackdo's over on the Cutie Pie Page who had murky ideas about consent and tried to excuse it away as a Thai thing.

You know what. Fuck it. In for a pound and all that jazz.

Just to be clear, there is a reason why consent does not legally apply to people even marginally drunk. Because individuals, especially those drunk enough to pass out, are prone to doing stupid shit like taking their cloths off in public, pissing against monuments, starting bar fights, having inadvisable sex with strangers and even operating heavy machinery, all of which were things they were "totally into" while drunk but which they were none-the-less insufficiently lucid to give rational consent to. They are not allowed to fly airplanes, drive cars or steer boats for the same reason. They may seem awake but are in fact impaired.

Now, you can define "totally into it" as "Dude had his eyes open" if you want. You can define "a bit squiffy" as limp as a wet rag to the point of having to be carried away from the table. But your definitions don't erase the fact that much of the world, including Thailand, has set a standard for informed consent that requires sobriety. A standard that Toh's behaviors clearly indicate he did not meet.

Oh, that's a very loaded question. It really depends on who you ask and what your personal taste in fiction is.

If you like shows with uneven, weird or unseemly power dynamics, infantilism, toxic behaviors, bullying tactics, manipulation and other patently awful behavior from various lead characters then this drama may be to your taste. And if so, that's cool. My only warning is that it's also dead boring. Somehow.

But if any of those things bug you then you might want to give it a pass. Because it has ALL of the aforementioned unwholesome behaviors in it and wraps them up in a burrito shell of trying to pass it all off as cute.

Like I said, it just depends on who you ask and what you like.

*"Being a bit squiffy doesn't mean you can't consent!"*

Actually, it can, depending on the penal code in your city/country and the relative reaction to alcohol in the particular individual. Depending on the circumstance a case could be made for impaired judgement (I.E. ineligibility to consent) in someone who has just had even one drink.

And a "bit squiffy" doesn't apply as a qualifier if the person has passed out. Literally fallen unconscious. So no. Toh couldn't consent. Especially to the part where his junk was being rubbed on while he was still out. You are conveniently ignoring that part--the part where Toh literally woke with Nuea's hand already rubbing his dick.

Am I to presume if one of your male friends passed out drunk and the dude he was crushing on starting rubbing his junk or touching him in a sexual way while he was out cold you'd just shrug and go "meh, he's just a bit squiffy. He's totally consenting."?

I know there are different types of relationships. But if one person is stalking the other one and the person being stalked is using moments of vulnerability to sexually assault the other... wow. Layers and Layers of unhealthy. And it's entirely within a viewer's purview to call out the behavior for what it is.

And at no point in time does this unhealthy dynamic ever leave me going "*Shrug* I guess it's just the way they interact." Instead it rather leaves me hoping Toh gets some intensive therapy for his obsessive disorder and Nuea gets some comeuppance for his non-consensual deeds. Baring that they both could drown in one of the water scenes so Jao and Sky can take over as lead couple.

What a ridiculous BL. The main couple is a stalker and the sexual predator he's obsessed with.

Let me stop you right there @WaenKoh. "In the novel" has no place in this conversation.

To paraphrase another poster tonight who responded to someone defending the train wreck that is Cutie Pie with book lore "We are only talking about the drama. If it's not in the drama, it doesn't count. We aren't reading the magic decoder ring so we get this crap".

It doesn't matter if it was only a hot and steamy makeout session and not full sex. In the drama episode it's made clear that Toh is really drunk, or at least impaired in some fashion. Whether he was faking in the book is irrelevant. The drama sets it up that Toh is in fact under some influence. (Mushrooms? Really?) And completely unconscious at first. So anything Nuea did to him was non-consensual at the time it happened because if Toh was under the influence of anything that alters his state of consciousness he is by definition unfit to consent. That Toh liked it afterwards and said so is entirely beside the point because A) Toh wasn't able to give consent at the time (as I just explained) and B) we all know Toh is really very fucked up mentally. He's fucking stalking someone. His take on consent and the person he's obsessed with is NOT a reliable metric for the actual morality of any given situation.

You might be about to argue that since Toh recalls the makeout session and was "awake" during it, then it couldn't possibly be assault. But see, yes, it can be. Being "awake" while drunk still constitutes being too impaired to consent. The participle clause "If they are drunk" only gets resolved with "then they can't consent". The level of drunk isn't a condition. And even if he was really okay enough to consent to the makeout, Toh was still unconscious when Nuea started out by touching him and rubbing up on his dick while Toh was out cold. Which is not okay under ANY circumstances. Toh literally woke with Nuea's hand rubbing his junk. No. Not okay.

But just for a second let's roll with your argument that the book's content proves Toh was faking it and not at all drunk.

It's still very very nasty, uncool non-con behavior on Nuea's part. You wanna know why? Because under your argument, Toh knew he was faking it--but guess who didn't--Nuea. Dude was operating under the idea that Toh was impaired. Drunk off mushrooms. And he used it as an opportunity to touch and rub up on a person he believed was unconscious and then while they were (seemingly) still dazed and under the influence started a makeout session. So even if we roll with your argument that Toh was pretending to be drunk Nuea is still a creeper because he DIDN'T know Toh was pretending.

Your explanation isn't terrible.

But If these things aren't coming across in the show and need explained in the context of the books then that context doesn't matter because a lot of us aren't going to read the books and only care about what the show it actually providing. I'm not judging literature, I'm reviewing a show. And that show should stand alone on its own merits. It doesn't It's full of holes and bad characterizations.

Give it a try. I think it's a burning trash fire but you may like it.