The concept is different and I had high hopes for this one - but those ladyboys just spoilt the realistic feel…
This seems to be very common in Pinoy and Thai BL, the ladyboys are almost always comic relief (though not really funny) and it makes me so uncomfortable.
Alright then. I'll engage with this discussion. First of all, not every BL fan specifically wants to see the characters…
Adachi does use his ability to try and get ahead at one point -- but he doesn't do it actively, he just uses information he got inadvertently, without intention. And he beats himself up about it afterwards. In fact, I don't think Adachi is all that great at self-control. I think he's just a very kind person, and it never really occurs to him to use his ability for nefarious means. Think about how shy, awkward and insecure he is, and how few friends he has (basically only Tsuge at the start of the story). He's not really friendly with anyone in his workplace (but he still does whatever Urabe asks him to and puts up with his borderline harassment). And then think about what he must have gone through while growing up to make him that way. He was probably lonely, possibly bullied, very likely excluded from a lot of social contexts. He could have become cynical, antisocial, full of resentment toward others. But he isn't. He is still a sweet cinnamon roll who harbours no ill will at all against other people (even as he sighs at his own inability to set limits against Urabe, or rolls his eyes at how cool and accomplished Kurosawa is, lol). And this is part of what makes us root for him as Kurosawa's love interest, even though we too can see that Kuro is out of his league *socially*. Because Adachi is so good, he *deserves* Kurosawa!
I am totally with you on the depressing BLs, or the ones with sad endings. I watch BL for much the same reason that I read romance; as an escape from reality and for the endorphin kick. I don't want my romance to be realistic. I crave "kilig" moments and happy endings, because what good would my escapism be if it was just as depressing as real life? So yeah, I dropped things like "90 Days" and got very mad at "My Extraordinary". I also haven't dared watch "Make Our Days Count" yet (though I might do it and stop before the end). But (as you may guess from my userpic) I ADORED "I Told Sunset About You" despite all the tissues I went through!
It's easier with written romance novels because there's an industry standard that romance = HEA (or at least a HFN), but with BL dramas there's no such guarantee. It doesn't help that there's no consensus in the industry about what the label "BL" actually stands for and what makes it different from media labelled LGBTQ, and since BL is a huge trend that sells, I get the feeling that some producers use the label a bit indiscriminately. (And then you get productions like Cherry Magic where the producers specifically DID NOT use the BL label, even though I don't feel that there's any doubt about it being one.)
EDITED to add because I forgot: I completely understand how you feel about SOTUS. I think it's a really good series, and they are both good actors, but the love story isn't 100% convincing for me, and part of that is Arthit's character or the way Krist plays it.
Alright then. I'll engage with this discussion. First of all, not every BL fan specifically wants to see the characters…
Adachi's reactions are so recognisable for me since I am grey ace myself, and that's how I read Adachi too. He's also shy and introverted and has low self-esteem, and all that combines into him feeling completely out of his depth, and utterly clueless about how to deal with the situation -- but the thing is that he is so, so brave. It's no coincidence that we have "Adachi being brave" as a drinking game prompt! He is scared and uncomfortable, but he is genuinely kind -- he just never had a clue before, but now he does and what does he do? He doesn't use his magic to get dirt on people, or to manipulate them. He uses it to help people, and understand them better, which in turn helps him come out of his own shell.
But the detail that Kurosawa is a man isn't nearly as big a deal for him as the fact that Kurosawa is utterly out of his league. Confident, handsome, charming, popular, successful, everything Adachi is not. He does think about the gender thing, but comes to the conclusion that it wouldn't really make a difference if Kurosawa were female, it would be just as awkward and terrifying. Kurosawa on the other hand *does* think that his being a guy is the problem, but as soon as Adachi realises that, he is quick to set him straight (well, not "straight", lol), even when that puts him on the spot.
Yes, chemistry between actors is so important. It doesn't really matter how much we're being *told* about the supposed attraction/infatuation if the actors can't convey it and make it look as if it's real. Good actors should be able to fake it just as they can fake attraction and infatuation to the opposite gender, and that's what I feel Akaso (Adachi) and Machida (Kurosawa) do, even if we don't see them kiss and cuddle on camera. But Machida conveys so much just with his body language, his eyes, his micro-expressions. They still made me *believe* it. But the dead-fish-kiss between Tsuge and Minato didn't really make me believe anything, and I could give you a list of actors whose interactions failed to convince me despite onscreen kisses and confessions.
Part of it is that Thai BL dramas are very often done by straight, young, inexperienced actors who are only doing it as a way to get a foothold in the acting business and build a fan base, but who don't really care about it, or even feel uncomfortable with it, and aren't yet professional enough to get past that discomfort. MaxTul were very stiff and awkward in their first on-screen kiss in Bad Romance, but by the time TWM rolled around they had most definitely got over it! And that's also what redeems TharnType 1 for me, the way the actors are so comfortable with physical intimacy. It's also why I am very hopeful for KinnPorsche. The evident chemistry between Earth and Mix in 1000 Stars is also impressive, especially considering it's Mix's first acting role, but then the actors have been close friends for years, so the comfort and trust was already there. But in fact I'd rather have them leave it to my imagination than give me a token DFK, whether that's down to agency contracts or the actors' discomfort, or simply local cultural limitations on how explicit you can be on national television.
I haven't watched every BL from the PH, but I've watched a fair amount. Some of it was terrible and some of it was awesome, and some of it managed to be kind of both. I must confess that I dropped a few. And I was very angry with My Extraordinary. But others are so good!
As for you being "a jerk", I find the fact that you were prepared to listen to the points of others, and apologise and change your mind, much more important. So many people would just dig down and escalate an argument like that, but you didn't. You had the courage and honesty to admit you were mistaken. That's something I can really respect.
Alright then. I'll engage with this discussion. First of all, not every BL fan specifically wants to see the characters…
Hi! I just want to say that I in fact dropped LBC a few episodes before the end precisely because the whole Kl/Tec thing was beginning to squick me out so much. MAME has a knack for writing some amazing characters, like Pete and Ae, and Tharn and Type, and then she goes and adds something so problematic that I just can't (in fact, I stopped watching TTTS2 a few eps before the end too, and from what I've heard about the storyline I was right to do so).
One of the things people tend to love about Cherry Magic is the fact that there is so much respect for consent and such an absence of problematic behaviours and stereotypes -- at least the ones you might expect in a BL. I think it's also telling that it has a huge fanbase among introverts and people on the ace spectrum. Adachi panics a lot, but it's not the usual "gay panic" that a lot of female BL fans love to see; rather it's intimacy or relationship panic, which makes total sense for his character. Another thing we love is that every side character (except for the thugs and that one person in episode 7) may be flawed, but is still basically likeable -- even the female one.
Personally I like BL dramas that don't shy away from kissing and intimate scenes that really convince me that the characters are, in fact, in love (I am a MaxTul fan, after all), but the lack of such a scene in CM didn't bother me at all (in fact, dead-fish kisses, like the one shared by the secondary couple, bother me a lot more). I felt it was in line with the characters and the tone of the drama. It wasn't a cop-out, and I didn't feel disappointed the way I felt after, say, a certain extremely popular Thai BL wich kept literally teasing the audience about kissing but never in fact delivered. At least in CM I never once doubted the love, attraction and affection between Adachi and Kurosawa -- it was present in so many small gestures, looks, actions. I'm not sure I've ever swooned so much from a simple hand-holding scene.
I am a western person too, though from Europe, and I've come to realise after watching a number of Asian BL dramas that levels of LGBTQ emancipation aside, there seem to be some cultural differences in the communities. I've reacted very strongly to the heteronormativity that is so prevalent in Asian BL, notably with the "hubby/wifey" thing, but reading discussions about this in various comment sections has informed me that this kind of language is not unusual even within the LGBTQ communities in Asia. It's hard for me as a non-Asian to really understand or accurately gauge this, and it's all too easy for me to see it as a lack of awareness and progress, but it's possible that it might mean something else to Asians. Also, I don't know how much weight to put on comments on the internet, but for the most part, people who have reacted negatively to it have been westerners, while Asians have been mostly neutral or positive, saying things like "my boyfriend calls me wifey, that's just how we roll". It still bothers me a lot, and I do think it's partially due to rigid gender stereotypes in those societies, but I try to keep an open mind about things that I lack knowledge and experience with.
As for LGBTQ creators, the recent wave of BL out of the Philippines is markedly different from the BL in the rest of Asia -- for one thing, it seems to have much closer ties to the local LGBTQ community, and it's notable that several writers and directors are gay men, and some actors are LGBTQ as well. The quality of production varies a lot, from low-budget kitchen-sink dramas with questionable plots and acting to well-made productions with a lot of skill and dedication. If you haven't watched Gaya Sa Pelikula/Like In The Movies yet, I recommend it, and also Gameboys (recently in a re-edited version on Netflix).
Anyway, I agree with a lot of the things you've said in general, I just wanted to explain why I don't feel that they apply, for the most part, to Cherry Magic in particular.
so.... i just clicked checkout and bought a ticket LOL. I dont even know thai and i'm not even JLPT N5 LOOOOOOOL
The number 5 is pronounced "ha" in Thai, that's why!
This is what I have learnt simply from watching Thai BL dramas for six months:
chop/chawp = like chaai = boy/man chop phuu chaai = I'm /you're gay (male) puen = friend faen = girlfriend/boyfriend, genderless phi = informal address for an older social equal, often used as a P' prefix, ungendered (="older sibling") nong = informal address for a younger social equal, ungendered , often used as a N' prefix (="younger sibling") ai = informal address for a social equal of the same age meung = extremely informal address for a social equal, very rude if used the wrong way (like "dude") khun = formal address for parents, teachers, bosses etc, ungendered phom = I (male 1st person pronoun, in some contexts) chan = I (mostly female 1st person pronoun, in some contexts) chai = correct, true (used as affirmative in certain cases) mai = no/not (used as negative) chai mai? = isn't it/ aren't they/ don't we etc. (like French "n'est-ce pas?") mai chai = not true ("no") khor thot = I'm sorry / excuse me mai bpen rai = it's okay / never mind /it's nothing (usually sounds like "meh-ben-lai") aroy = tasty, good tirak = darling (chan) rak (ter) = I love you su su! = you can do it! ("Fight!")
Also: Every phrase can/should be made polite by adding khrap/kha Khrap/kha can be used as "yes" / "understood" There's no actual word for "yes" in Thai Thai pronouns is a vast forbidding jungle where foreigners go to die Thai speakers sometimes use names instead of pronouns In everyday / informally spoken Thai /r/ is often replaced with /l/ ("aroy" becomes "aloy")
(This is all with a HUGE disclaimer that I might have completely misunderstood something important and also misspelled things, since there seems to be no single standard for transcribing Thai. There are some additional words/phrases that I recognise but only have a vague understanding of and have no idea how to transcribe)
2 
EDIT: I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.
In fact, I don't think Adachi is all that great at self-control. I think he's just a very kind person, and it never really occurs to him to use his ability for nefarious means. Think about how shy, awkward and insecure he is, and how few friends he has (basically only Tsuge at the start of the story). He's not really friendly with anyone in his workplace (but he still does whatever Urabe asks him to and puts up with his borderline harassment). And then think about what he must have gone through while growing up to make him that way. He was probably lonely, possibly bullied, very likely excluded from a lot of social contexts. He could have become cynical, antisocial, full of resentment toward others. But he isn't. He is still a sweet cinnamon roll who harbours no ill will at all against other people (even as he sighs at his own inability to set limits against Urabe, or rolls his eyes at how cool and accomplished Kurosawa is, lol). And this is part of what makes us root for him as Kurosawa's love interest, even though we too can see that Kuro is out of his league *socially*. Because Adachi is so good, he *deserves* Kurosawa!
I am totally with you on the depressing BLs, or the ones with sad endings. I watch BL for much the same reason that I read romance; as an escape from reality and for the endorphin kick. I don't want my romance to be realistic. I crave "kilig" moments and happy endings, because what good would my escapism be if it was just as depressing as real life? So yeah, I dropped things like "90 Days" and got very mad at "My Extraordinary". I also haven't dared watch "Make Our Days Count" yet (though I might do it and stop before the end). But (as you may guess from my userpic) I ADORED "I Told Sunset About You" despite all the tissues I went through!
It's easier with written romance novels because there's an industry standard that romance = HEA (or at least a HFN), but with BL dramas there's no such guarantee. It doesn't help that there's no consensus in the industry about what the label "BL" actually stands for and what makes it different from media labelled LGBTQ, and since BL is a huge trend that sells, I get the feeling that some producers use the label a bit indiscriminately. (And then you get productions like Cherry Magic where the producers specifically DID NOT use the BL label, even though I don't feel that there's any doubt about it being one.)
EDITED to add because I forgot: I completely understand how you feel about SOTUS. I think it's a really good series, and they are both good actors, but the love story isn't 100% convincing for me, and part of that is Arthit's character or the way Krist plays it.
But the detail that Kurosawa is a man isn't nearly as big a deal for him as the fact that Kurosawa is utterly out of his league. Confident, handsome, charming, popular, successful, everything Adachi is not. He does think about the gender thing, but comes to the conclusion that it wouldn't really make a difference if Kurosawa were female, it would be just as awkward and terrifying. Kurosawa on the other hand *does* think that his being a guy is the problem, but as soon as Adachi realises that, he is quick to set him straight (well, not "straight", lol), even when that puts him on the spot.
Yes, chemistry between actors is so important. It doesn't really matter how much we're being *told* about the supposed attraction/infatuation if the actors can't convey it and make it look as if it's real. Good actors should be able to fake it just as they can fake attraction and infatuation to the opposite gender, and that's what I feel Akaso (Adachi) and Machida (Kurosawa) do, even if we don't see them kiss and cuddle on camera. But Machida conveys so much just with his body language, his eyes, his micro-expressions. They still made me *believe* it. But the dead-fish-kiss between Tsuge and Minato didn't really make me believe anything, and I could give you a list of actors whose interactions failed to convince me despite onscreen kisses and confessions.
Part of it is that Thai BL dramas are very often done by straight, young, inexperienced actors who are only doing it as a way to get a foothold in the acting business and build a fan base, but who don't really care about it, or even feel uncomfortable with it, and aren't yet professional enough to get past that discomfort. MaxTul were very stiff and awkward in their first on-screen kiss in Bad Romance, but by the time TWM rolled around they had most definitely got over it! And that's also what redeems TharnType 1 for me, the way the actors are so comfortable with physical intimacy. It's also why I am very hopeful for KinnPorsche. The evident chemistry between Earth and Mix in 1000 Stars is also impressive, especially considering it's Mix's first acting role, but then the actors have been close friends for years, so the comfort and trust was already there. But in fact I'd rather have them leave it to my imagination than give me a token DFK, whether that's down to agency contracts or the actors' discomfort, or simply local cultural limitations on how explicit you can be on national television.
I haven't watched every BL from the PH, but I've watched a fair amount. Some of it was terrible and some of it was awesome, and some of it managed to be kind of both. I must confess that I dropped a few. And I was very angry with My Extraordinary. But others are so good!
As for you being "a jerk", I find the fact that you were prepared to listen to the points of others, and apologise and change your mind, much more important. So many people would just dig down and escalate an argument like that, but you didn't. You had the courage and honesty to admit you were mistaken. That's something I can really respect.
One of the things people tend to love about Cherry Magic is the fact that there is so much respect for consent and such an absence of problematic behaviours and stereotypes -- at least the ones you might expect in a BL. I think it's also telling that it has a huge fanbase among introverts and people on the ace spectrum. Adachi panics a lot, but it's not the usual "gay panic" that a lot of female BL fans love to see; rather it's intimacy or relationship panic, which makes total sense for his character. Another thing we love is that every side character (except for the thugs and that one person in episode 7) may be flawed, but is still basically likeable -- even the female one.
Personally I like BL dramas that don't shy away from kissing and intimate scenes that really convince me that the characters are, in fact, in love (I am a MaxTul fan, after all), but the lack of such a scene in CM didn't bother me at all (in fact, dead-fish kisses, like the one shared by the secondary couple, bother me a lot more). I felt it was in line with the characters and the tone of the drama. It wasn't a cop-out, and I didn't feel disappointed the way I felt after, say, a certain extremely popular Thai BL wich kept literally teasing the audience about kissing but never in fact delivered. At least in CM I never once doubted the love, attraction and affection between Adachi and Kurosawa -- it was present in so many small gestures, looks, actions. I'm not sure I've ever swooned so much from a simple hand-holding scene.
I am a western person too, though from Europe, and I've come to realise after watching a number of Asian BL dramas that levels of LGBTQ emancipation aside, there seem to be some cultural differences in the communities. I've reacted very strongly to the heteronormativity that is so prevalent in Asian BL, notably with the "hubby/wifey" thing, but reading discussions about this in various comment sections has informed me that this kind of language is not unusual even within the LGBTQ communities in Asia. It's hard for me as a non-Asian to really understand or accurately gauge this, and it's all too easy for me to see it as a lack of awareness and progress, but it's possible that it might mean something else to Asians. Also, I don't know how much weight to put on comments on the internet, but for the most part, people who have reacted negatively to it have been westerners, while Asians have been mostly neutral or positive, saying things like "my boyfriend calls me wifey, that's just how we roll". It still bothers me a lot, and I do think it's partially due to rigid gender stereotypes in those societies, but I try to keep an open mind about things that I lack knowledge and experience with.
As for LGBTQ creators, the recent wave of BL out of the Philippines is markedly different from the BL in the rest of Asia -- for one thing, it seems to have much closer ties to the local LGBTQ community, and it's notable that several writers and directors are gay men, and some actors are LGBTQ as well. The quality of production varies a lot, from low-budget kitchen-sink dramas with questionable plots and acting to well-made productions with a lot of skill and dedication. If you haven't watched Gaya Sa Pelikula/Like In The Movies yet, I recommend it, and also Gameboys (recently in a re-edited version on Netflix).
Anyway, I agree with a lot of the things you've said in general, I just wanted to explain why I don't feel that they apply, for the most part, to Cherry Magic in particular.
This is what I have learnt simply from watching Thai BL dramas for six months:
chop/chawp = like
chaai = boy/man
chop phuu chaai = I'm /you're gay (male)
puen = friend
faen = girlfriend/boyfriend, genderless
phi = informal address for an older social equal, often used as a P' prefix, ungendered (="older sibling")
nong = informal address for a younger social equal, ungendered , often used as a N' prefix (="younger sibling")
ai = informal address for a social equal of the same age
meung = extremely informal address for a social equal, very rude if used the wrong way (like "dude")
khun = formal address for parents, teachers, bosses etc, ungendered
phom = I (male 1st person pronoun, in some contexts)
chan = I (mostly female 1st person pronoun, in some contexts)
chai = correct, true (used as affirmative in certain cases)
mai = no/not (used as negative)
chai mai? = isn't it/ aren't they/ don't we etc. (like French "n'est-ce pas?")
mai chai = not true ("no")
khor thot = I'm sorry / excuse me
mai bpen rai = it's okay / never mind /it's nothing (usually sounds like "meh-ben-lai")
aroy = tasty, good
tirak = darling
(chan) rak (ter) = I love you
su su! = you can do it! ("Fight!")
Also: Every phrase can/should be made polite by adding khrap/kha
Khrap/kha can be used as "yes" / "understood"
There's no actual word for "yes" in Thai
Thai pronouns is a vast forbidding jungle where foreigners go to die
Thai speakers sometimes use names instead of pronouns
In everyday / informally spoken Thai /r/ is often replaced with /l/ ("aroy" becomes "aloy")
(This is all with a HUGE disclaimer that I might have completely misunderstood something important and also misspelled things, since there seems to be no single standard for transcribing Thai. There are some additional words/phrases that I recognise but only have a vague understanding of and have no idea how to transcribe)