y ishida

HAVING CHARACTER FLAWS DOES NOT MAKE A SHOW TOXIC !!!

I am getting tired of this bs people pull . Just say that you like Mary sues and leave us alone!

Toxicity comes when the relationship is fucked with zero character growth. Like a thousand western romance shows I've seen. Kiyoi and Hira both grew and it's clear to anyone with a brain that they don't have the same dynamic they used to havs in high-school. What part of character growth is toxic to people? I am getting tired.

I think JP bls have good chances of getting second seasons overall. I don't think there is any of them not getting a second season right? Specifically when there is a source material they haven't covered in the first season.

Is BB good? I have seen people recommending it but I am not sure if I want to try. Are the characters flawed? Or are they unrealistically good?

This is what I call "personal taste "
Not all of us feel like that. Some of us prefer to see characters that look like human beings with flaws and not like they are too perfect and cane out of a dream.

Never watched BB but utsukushii kare is neither "heavy" nor "toxic"

You can say that you don't like character flaws or deep insecurities but calling it heavy makes me feel like you never actually bothered watching or understanding the show or you've never watched a heavy show in your life.

Kimoi is a Japanese word that has different meanings and can not be translated to English as a "slang for gross or disgusting "

It can mean :scary, creepy , strange, bad omen , bad feeling, weird, awkward, annoying,etc
Also gross and disgusting

It's really understandable why Kiyoi calls him that word looking at all these meanings

Right? The actors are doing a great job with their expressions! Hagiwara specifically has done phenomenal. Anyone can not only see his character through his words and acting but also body language. Hira became noticeably more and more confident each episode he spent with Kiyoi and by episode 4 , his body language seems so much less stiff and scared and a lot more open . He couldn't even talk to Kiyoi in episode 1 but he became so much better. Anyone who says he doesn't have a character development is just trying to be ignorant at this point.

I'm not sure if you've read the comments trying to explain around here but Kiyoi has only used 2 bad words for Hira. "Stalker and Kimoi"

Kimoi is what I referred to when I said he calls him creepy. Kimoi in Japanese has so many different meanings and it's very hard to translate to English. Kiyoi has actually never called Hira disgusting. He just called him "kimoi"

You are also wrong about Koyama. Being there for someone doesn't make them a good choice. On the contrary, Koyama who knows about Hira's insecurity and he knows that Hira just goes with the flow , never bothered to tell his brother that he isn't his boyfriend. Is that a good thing? Since Hira doesn't like Koyama but he can and will just go with the flow. If it wasn't for Kiyoi , he would've just become Koyama's boyfriend without having any feelings for him or even being happy with him. Is that a good thing? It's basically like a gay man marrying a woman because it's more "normal". Not to mention, it shows how Hira has never grew as a character to be confident enough to say the word "No"

On the other hand, Hira has never "moved on" from Kiyoi and Koyama isn't even close to helping him in anything. Hira though Kiyoi kissed him out of pity and decided to leave. It wasn't because of Koyama. And he still watched all of Kiyoi's advertisements and still loved him.

Whether you like Kiyoi's behaviour or not, he is actually the first one who helped Hira to be more confident. It was because of him that Hira started coming out of his shell for the first time and gaining more and more confidence. He even managed to beat high school bullies at one point. Something he never used to do in his entire life. Kiyoi was the first person to ever be his friend and talk to him . They went to school together, had a lot of fun together. Hira has gained a lot from being with Kiyoi (mostly his confidence)

Sounds like just hating for the sake of it to me.

People are allowed to feel whatever they want but coming here and spreading words like bully , asshole,etc is not going to take away much from the story. Just hate for the sake of it.

Thanks for this!

Not to come off as rude , you are allowed to feel anyway you want but as a Koyama hater fuck him and his feelings.

How the heck is it Kiyou'a problem that Koyama ended up having a crush on someone who doesn't like him? Hira doesn't want Koyama. It's as simple as that. Non of it has anything to do with Kiyoi and hating on him is not going to suddenly make Hira fall for Koyama. Koyama is the worst choice for Hira either way.

And in case you guys still haven't noticed Kiyou was never meant to be perfect. He was a teenager like many. So I wonder how you complain about him not being nice after 5 episodes.

I still believe Kiyou has every right to call Hira creepy and a stalker whether you guys can see it or not.

You want to maybe try and give a reason and add to discussion or are you just here to hate ?

So I just finished watching Kieta Hatsukoi's last episode and it was hard for me not to think about this show .

People have already mentioned it that comparing this show to Kieta Hatsukoi is wrong because they are completely different genres and I agree with them but there are a few things that can be said.

Kieta Hatsukoi is a show that's made for a younger audience with cute characters who are a little bit too flawless specially for their age. But that type of fluff seems appealing to general audience and Kieta Hatsukoi has better ratings in comparison to utsukushii kare.

When I first started watching this show , I remembered that I felt a little uncomfortable (mostly because of Hira) and in my head Kieta Hatsukoi was so much better . After finishing Kieta ep 10 and ep 5 of Utsukushii kare I feel completely different.

Kieta started strong but since it's a show where they don't want the characters to be too flawed, it ended up having nothing much to add after a few episodes and the episodes (for me) got a little bit boring as they went on. In fact my most fave episode of Kieta was about a flawed new character (the teacher) who learned something by the end of the episode.
I still enjoyed the show but I feel like if they could try to flash out the characters more, give them more flaws and conflicts, we could get a much better series for a show that has the benefit of being 10 episodes.

On the other hand , the more I watch utsukushii kare , the more I feel interested. I never rewatched a single episode of Kieta Hatsukoi but I rewatched utsukushii kare for better understanding of the characters.

I respect everyone's opinions but I am hoping to be able to see more lgbtq with flawed characters like this one. Believe it or not I am not the type who likes toxicity even in a show but I think a little flaw may be necessary to keep me going specially when you know that the characters are going to improve. If I could make a decision I wish I had 6 episodes of Kieta and 10 of utsukushii kare because I think this series need more episodes for a better explanation of characters while Kieta doesn't have much to offer other than wholesomeness.

People can call it toxic as much as they like, this show is still not toxic in my eyes(since it's about flaws and growth) and I have seen enough western romance to know how much dark a show can actually be. If you guys hate complexity and growth and prefer fluff I still respect it but I expect respect in return since those fluffy shows can quickly become boring to someone like me. So you guys can stick to the fluff that you like and let me enjoy my character growth. I don't think it's that hard to respect others . Right?

True! I feel like if people want to start talking about Morals and blaming fictional characters then both of them get the blame.

At the very beginning it was Hira who started paying too much attention to Kiyoi which made Kiyoi curious about him. A lot of people would either freak out or don't know what to do in Kiyoi's situation , but Kiyoi got curious. After that he just starts following Kiyoi and doing whatever Kiyoi wants without even sounding like he wants Kiyoi to stop. He even went as far as confessing when he felt like Kiyoi was going to leave him and hated his "pity"

There is a reason why Kiyoi called Hira arrogant. Hira actually does whatever he believes is right .
Following Kiyoi around or beating people for him or confessing to him , calling him beautiful and asking to kiss his hand and then moving out right after graduation.

Kiyoi didn't make him do any of these. He did them because he wanted to.

This is why people who only hate on Kiyoi and call him abusive confuse me because a huge part of Hira and Kiyoi's relationship during high-school is based on accepting each others flaws and consent. Both of them know the other one is flawed but they accept them anyways.

If people get uncomfortable when Hira did Kiyoi's errands (eventhough Hira was happy about it) then they should probably also feel uncomfortable about Hira always staring at Kiyoi (eventhough Kiyoi is quite happy about it) since some of them heavily believe that Hira's consent and happiness doesn't matter when it comes to Kiyoi , right?

One of my favourite childhood Disney movie was the beauty and the beast and it's literally about a dude imprisoning this girl and being an asshole to her until he starts becoming a better person.

If that's not an abusive relationship in a freaking kids show then I don't know what is.

To add to this I think there is a huge difference between how people respond to asian tv series vs western ones. Anyone who watches famous Western TV shows, knows how triggering they are and how toxic the characters and their relationships can be.

I was watching Arcane the other day and (Arcane spoiler alert for those who haven't watched it!!!!!)

One of the main characters(Jinx) in the show is not only super toxic but also literally a killer.

Another one (Silco) is a drug boss.

Literally every single character in that show has some sort of flaw except for a few of them. But people cherish these characters and praise them to death . Who cares if Jinx is a killer when she has a bad childhood?

I personally loved Arcane because of how flawed the characters are but reading arcane comments and then reading utsukushii kare comments give me a feeling of hypocrisy among people.

There is a huge difference between how people see flawed characters in Western shows vs how they see them in Asian dramas and its actually starting to annoy me. Do people think asians are not allowed to show flawed characters or something?

Dude I loved Hira's character development in this episode! He told what he wanted to Koyama! He has come a long way and is way more open and confident than before! But he still needs to seriously talk with Kiyoi.

Something that bothers me is that Koyama clearly told his brother him and Hira are dating eventhough he was just planning to confess to Hira and they were clearly not boyfriends. I mean why would Koyama's brother introduce them as "boyfriends" when we know from Hira's POV that's not true at all.

This is interesting. I mean I hated Koyama this episode but do you think they changed the story to make him look worse from the drama CD or are they following the novel? Because no matter how I look at it, Koyama is not a good guy just like Kiyoi and Hira but maybe that's not the case in the drama CD?

That's what I'm saying! How can people not see that Koyama isn't exactly a good guy either? These characters are all flawed and I am here for it!