Armaniiie

Really, if that is the case then I may have to agree with everyone else then. But I didn't catch that from the drama.

Okay, I just googled to make sure and it said that there's typically upto six grand secretaries, with the most senior member seen as Senior Grand Secretary. So it was a body of advisors but maybe Shen grandfather was the Senior member, we don't know. And it says that the grand Secretariat (Neige) were much lower than the heads of six ministries during Ming Dynasty not Qing Dynasty. It says the Shangshu minister held a second rank and was the head of that ministry. Grandfather Lin was Libu Shangshu, the Head of the ministry of personnel. The head of the ministry of personnel was seen as the head of the other heads of the six ministries. I watched episode one to catch what Shen Jialan mother says to her and she says you are the legitimate granddaughter of a Daxueshi, meaning grand secretary, which was a position for high ranking advisors, again, it's a body. But even though as a collective they acted as a grand chancellor, they were not, and their ranks in the body varied. That's why I say, it is possible her grandfather was a senior member of the grand secretariat. But what rank he carried, we don't know. But I'm open for discussion as I said, I'm really not versed in this. Okay I was trying to think of a drama that features this aspect to act as a reference and I think Splendid Match is good because it's a recent drama so there is a possibility you have watched it. In case you did, did you notice how the grand secretariat was made up of multiple members but they have a head and how they had an internal hierarchy?

Yes, I'm absolutely not blaming the Lins for what happened to the Shens but I'm definitely not going to see him in a good light either. Nor does Mister Lu. The way he moved was very very cold. And yes, he is very traumatized by what happened to the Shens that's why he lectured Jinqi on thinking before acting and I agree with him. But I still support Jinqi's decision making from a moral stand point.

Yes you are right, the uniform can also be worn not only when attending court but when on duty, but my thing is, why do we find them wearing it when the guards arrive? Were they on duty then they went home or were they at court in the morning. Also we are not shown when Grandmother Shen had this discussion with her husband, which yes, I can only assume was when he came back home because he was at home with all his family members it's just that he came out of his study whereas the other family members came out of another place. But regarding Grandfather Lin, I don't see it that way because if he thought the Shens would be spared there is no need to annul the engagement that quickly, from my understanding, families tend to annul engagements with a swiftness because they don't want to be associated with that family anymore, they fear that other opponents may use this as an opportunity to link them to the other family's crimes.

Yes, I think they only warned the grandmother once they arrived home and that's why she is the first to ask if the Lin family is annulling the engagement. I see it this way, the Shen family was a house full of not only intelligent men but women as well due to their family teachings. Look at how XLX maneuvers around the law with ease, and this is all from the teachings she received in her younger years in the Shen household. So there is a chance they may have found a loophole to save their family when they are this smart. Or they may not succeed irregardless of how smart they are as the drama does a good job of emphasizes how the Emperor's words are the law, so whatever he says goes.

Tbh, I'm not an expert in this, I just infer from years of experience of watching dramas and usually the grand Secretariat is a group of officials especially during the Ming Dynasty. These group of officials are indeed in positions of prestige and power and usually have a head or someone they respect as their head. So maybe the Shen family grandfather was the head of the members. I'm really not sure.

I think you might be onto something, I think it was decided to let the Shens take the blame. I'd like to add why I think this is plausible is because everything happened very swiftly. I can only infer from what I watched in the first episode but it seems the Lin grandfather found out a day or two before, most probably the day before. Seeing how he wanted nothing to do with the Shens so as not to implicate his family, he orders the annulment be sent as soon as possible, which was probably the next day. That is why the entire Shen household is still operating as normal, not knowing what is awaiting them. The Shen grandfather and his son go to court that morning, as seen by then wearing their court uniform and unfortunately for them, they are unprepared and so maybe the emperor questioned him about this and yes, being a man of integrity he probably agreed to saying those thing to the deposed emperor, I'm only assuming here, but with court politics if you attend court unprepared, your enemies can take advantage of that. And so it's likely that's when the emperor announced his punishment upon him and he comes home, still in his uniform, informs his wife, while the rest of the household is expecting the Lin family. Then the annulment arrives and the rest of the women don't know what is in that letter but grandmother guesses correctly and Shen Jialan's mother not knowing what happened wants to immediately ask for answers but they are met with imperial guards at the door. The way things happened with a swiftness it feels like he was indeed unprepared and may have been manipulated in the dark to make him a scapegoat.

I know there is nothing the Lins could have done but I feel like why would the directors of the drama highlight the fact that the Lin family found out about this earlier. Why didn't we see the Shen family find this out earlier and then decide how to act on it. But instead we just saw the father and son removing their hats and the grandfather write his last words, they look like they had just been to court that morning. So it's fair to assume, for them life was going on as normal until that court session in the morning where they were informed of what was awaiting them.

Okay Im not 100% certain how it works in the drama but during Ming Dynasty, the grand Secretariat acted as a body just like in the U.S you have Congress or a Parliamentary in some countries. So from my understanding her grandfather was part of that body. I just googled to make sure and it said the grand secretariat members were usually at rank 5.

The Lin grandfather was actually in a higher position, he was a second rank minister of personnel and while yes, being part of the grand Secretariat was an accomplishment, it seems Lin grandfather had more connections so he found out earlier. If he really thought the Shen grandfather knew then why when Jinqi suggested they inform them he didn't say, oh he knows, no need to do that. Instead he gave him a look and that look made Jinqi instantly understand. It was a look that said, from now onwards we have nothing to do with those people and we don't know them. Unfortunately Shen grandfather did not understand the magnitude of what was at stake, maybe he thought the emperor would spare his family for the sake of his merits to the state, but I think if he knew what was at stake, he definitely would have tried to protect his family. But I'm certain, he would have gone about it a different way.

No one is blaming the Lins for the death of the Shens but we are not going to look at them in a good light either. Think about it this way, you have a friend and both of y'all in your early years write a whistleblowing report. Now both of y'all have risen up in ranks in the office but it happens that one of the names you guys mentioned in the whistleblowing report has become the Final Boss and they are coming after everyone who was in support of this report. Your friend, whom you have grown close in relationship with that you consider marrying your daughter to his son, discovers this news from the grapevines pretty early enough to make plans. Is it your friend's fault someone exposed this to the boss and the boss is angry? NO. But given the friendship y'all have if that friend gets news of this early knowing this is gonna result in you and your family facing possible death and has a chance to TIP you about it as they heard it early but DOESN'T. Does that make that person a good friend? A good person? A good person to form family relations with? No. Because that seems like the kind of friend that is capable of stabbing you in the back just so they can survive. It's giving that. I mean the grandpa even suggested an alternative that involved killing Xiuwan to protect the Lin family. Thank God Jinqi is a good person because good people will try find better alternatives to remedy a situation and he did. He informed the Marquis firsthand and turns out the dude was like hey I don't care which Lin family girl I marry. Oh, he is also the one who suggested informing the Shen family and he is also the one who buried them. Some of y'all might say, oh but in that time that's how some families protected their reputation and yes, it was an option, if you have watched Road to Splendour that's exactly what the FL grandmother does. But it's like why resort to that instantly when there are other ways to fix the situation where you don't have to watch your loved one die.

Minglan is really hard to measure up to. You can try out a few episodes of this drama and then make a decision. But it's definitely wayyyy better than the typical historical idol dramas we have these days.

True, true. But in defense of Mr Shen, his wife even says she thought the emperor would only execute him and she would follow her husband by drinking poison they didn't know that the emperor would target the entire family.

I think even if this drama is set during Ming/Song dynasty and people back then didn't have the knowledge we have to articulate what trauma is, it doesn't mean it didn't happen because trauma is a bodily response. Take depression for example or even diseases like small pox that claimed a lot of lives back then. The people back then may not have had the medical advancements we have today through research but that doesn't mean they didn't experience such issues. Today you can get diagnosed with clinical depression but that doesn't mean our ancestors never had depression. Today small pox can be treated fast enough not to cause a plague, but that doesn't mean our ancestors never experienced small pox.

What she did was a normal physical reaction. That was PTSD taking place, she cannot control that even if she wanted to, the moment the grandfather spoke about what kind of family the Lin family is, her mother's voice came into her mind. I don't know if you have maybe watched any documentaries on war veterans or met one in real life, but trauma is a real thing and when it takes place it's a body's physical response, you sometimes cannot control it. There are people who will get traumatized for life just for witnessing one person die before them, even if that person is a stranger, she had to witness a room full of her loved ones, family members, die before her. That's not something someone can just get over. And yes Lin Jinqi is her husband, but her mother, her father, her siblings are her family and that's a void he cannot fill. And I think what this drama is trying to teach us is how difficult it was for women to pave a way for themselves without relying on a man. So XLX is showing us how it's done, when she needs help, she will ask for help as she did regarding Jier.

So true. That wasn't being rude, the directors also showed us that she became absent minded. That was grief and trauma taking place. Remember the scene where Jinqi's mom and her maid were talking about Jiugao and were both crying, it was indeed a heartfelt and funny moment between the two ladies but when she said at least he didn't bring someone like Lanxiang into the household. Aka, a maid or low status wife, all I could think is, y'all are busy crying about her being low status while she has to shoulder the fact that she is married into this family but the backing that her mother said she would have when she would marry into the Lins is gone. The Shens are gone and now that she's married, every little thing that has a connection to the past, like that Lin family symbol is a reminder of the past trauma she is carrying.

She cannot divorce Jinqi, this is a historical drama where women could not easily divorce their husbands, it had to be under very special circumstances. Men on the other hand could easily divorce based on the seven grounds for divorce. Zhao Xingtang when she returns home doesn't want to get married again, but we later see her in the capital married to an old man whose first son is 10 years older than her. That's why she was embezzling money and planning to elope. If she succeeds then Zhao family won't be able to control her and use her as a pawn for political connections and she doesn't have to stay married to Jinqi, she will elope with that Qian guy. Unfortunately for her, he is not worth it.

Well said.

I think it's because that Qian guy trapped her in a love spell like Du Zheng trapped Xiuwan. It may have been ancient times but a first love is so hard to forget. So when she was suddenly told to marry Jinqi and abort her child and marry another man when she loves another, she probably lost it and that's when she realised that her family/grandfather may dote on her but she's just a pawn so she started embezzling money from the Lins trying to save enough and elope. Which I don't agree with but I'm not mad at her giving Jinqi the cold shoulder, she was not in love with him and set the boundary on the first night. I think it's better to be honest than deceptive.

True.