Dabosil

I can see what you're saying. I think there's been a debate going on about romance dramas regarding professions as well- general consensus seems to be that if it's romance entered, the professions don't really have to be in line, but the plot should still logically follow like in all dramas. Regardless of whether the acting might be good (I've seen their acting in other shows too, though I don't think it's stellar or anything) I think the actors are second to the plot in a show. I can kind of brush over acting and all as long as I'm following an interesting story. But I suppose for romance dramas the plot is really the romance so chemistry and actors probably matter more. I think that there should be more good scripts for actors to work with. I think many actors in cdramaland have much better potential when working with a good script-too many cliches and set-ups. And yes, I liked some of Li Qin's scenes in 'The Wolf'.

Also, doesn't the plot follow based on character decisions and intelligence? I also see that its a 40 episodes drama, and I would say romance can't be too long because there's not enough relationship to drag out or it becomes draggy. Still, dramas in all are getting shorter, which is a good sign.

I saw that this show had quite a lot of views on Youtube, and I felt worried. I think I saw some comments thinking that it would be like DOTS. I haven't watched it personally, but the rating on Douban is 4.4 (Mainland ratings tend to be much lower than MDL and I would say that foreigners are less critical of foreign dramas too, everywhere). The main problem I see people highlighting is the intelligence of the characters as they make choices not befit their position (as people who work in the military or doctoring profession). Apart from the characters, I also hear that the plot is too common and the acting isn't really good. I also hear many who say that they liked 'You are My Hero' a lot more (which was also a doctor and special forced agent)-though I found that one dragging towards the end as well.

I do hope Li Qin gets better roles, though. She has a storageful of dramas unaired and she's busy, but her range in her shows is limited. She did great in 'Princess Agents' and I took notice of her then, but it seems that her other shows haven't shown that spark. Maybe she could try some vengeful characters? She can have very expressive eyes.

Just finished it and wow! I must say the ending wasn't bad, thankfully. ALl my favourite characters though, successively dying-I also think that Wang Shi An's death was covered too quickly, as he was such a major character. I loved Lin Nan Sheng and Zhu Xin Jie's friendship, and she really was such a strong character. I think that Zhu Yi Zhen didn't shine out for me so well in the latter part of the series which is quite funny since she did not get many scenes in the front either, but in the latter relegated to even less importance due to the plot.

It was such a great ride, and I really liked how the drama illustrated the different relationships between everyone (politics aside), and to see Lin Nan Sheng's growth. I still feel regretful for Chen Mo Qun's betrayal as I did like this guy so much (I thought he overacted some of his gestures in the start, however), and it is really so disheartening to see Lin Nan Sheng all alone in the end, with all of his friends and enemies sacrificed (yet he still as hope).

I do think that as a spy show, well-I mean a lot of the spying they do and secret intel sharing is way too much of a plothole, but as I don't watch these types of dramas much, it didn't quite so bother me. I suppose it's because I loved the relationships and characters so much. Honestly, the background characters were great.

I also really like the scene where Chen Mo Qun dies and Lin Nan Sheng uses his hands to cover his eyes- there so much history, conflict, gratefulness, and hatred between them, and he gives him peace. It was such a small yet meaningful moment.

The comment section is lively! Fun reading all the posts.

I don’t think Nabi is naive. However, we also have to consider that she just got out of another toxic relationship and it’s easy for her to fall into another one. From her back and forth inner monologue, she often has her ‘logic’ regarding Park Jae-Eon’s behaviours as a defence mechanism, and she keeps saying she knows what he’s doing. However, her interactions with Bitna show she still has some unrealistic expectations regarding PJE, and she always becomes flustered when she’s around him, and still actively finds chances to be around him. She might have attachment issues, idk, and also avoidance issues though. I think that she also isn’t as weak as she seems because her pride and conflict comes out. For example, when seeing the butterfly on the other girl’s arm, she confronts him about this (I know this can also be interpreted as just her jealousy, but there are also several other occasions when she tries to clarify).

The ending confuses me a bit for sure, as I don’t know if her initiation after PJE clarifies his relationship stance shows she’s going for it after grasping the whole situation or it’s jealousy or something else.

As for PJE, yes, hookups are common, but the problem is with Nabi and PJE’s dynamic. Firstly, Nabi seems to have reservations regarding his attitude with his relationships and she tiptoes around this for a while (of course there’s also the ending though). When PJE explains his stance he says it in a way where he puts all the reasons out of line so he doesn’t have responsibility for his relationships. Also, both times Nabi asks about the girls (butterfly tattoo and the girl against the wall) he talks about how they are deluded or something along the lines-which is a very bad sign as this is how he explains to Nabi (key: he’s giving explanations, as in it is recognisable as a problem in that scenario between the two of them). Additionally, because Nabi half convinced herself she still has some fantastical idea of PJE, so she’s probably not completely in the loop about having a casual fling.

That’s why it’s a worrying relationship.

I agree though, its hard to understand Nabi from an outsider perspective but such relationships are very common and therefore it’s nice the drama explores it.

And though I think Nabi has to come to her own definite conclusions about Jae-Eon, Bitna please validate the idea of Jae-Eon not being good for her! She needs that validation, there’s enoug back and forth with her own thoughts already and she’s dismissing them aigh.

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Second Episode:
No, Nabi-
Bro stuck a red flag on his head.
Wait no- he’s literally wearing a siren hat.

Even though I’m mentally shaking Nabi, I understand what she feels. I also think that her though processes are quite interesting. She asks herself, ‘What do I want from Park Jae-Eon?’
His back and forth dialogue about KNOWING he’s a bad sign and everything shows that she at least to an extent needs the comfort of doing something that aligns with her moral compass. She also seems to half-rationalise, because she actively tells herself what he’s doing is bad when she’s simultaneously attracted to it, and when she says this, she still looks forward to every encounter. With the encounters in the second episode. We can see that though she might think she’s being very logical to herself about Jae-Eon, she’s still taken aback everytime she sees him with other girls/so forth which shows she still indulges in her fantasy more. I think the question she was pondering also gives some depth to her, as she’s trying to understand why she would like him. She definitely likes his attention and feels jealous (many occasions she could retruse after intruding upon him but she steps out right in his view) when he’s with other people. I think she might have attachment issues too, as she hasn’t removed the tattoo.

Nabi seems quite introverted and though she has friends doesn’t seem to have the attention needed from them overall? Or maybe she has some backstory.
Isk, haha, I’m caught up to the WEBTOON right until the scenes at the end of this episode.

I also think Jae-Eon is quite sensitive/observant of other peoples feelings and reactions (or at least regarding Nabi) but even what other people say. I also think his nonchalant attitude with ‘Do we look close?’ shows that he has an nonchalant attitude with all his relationships, and the quip about him always on his phone but replying to messages late says that he is on text with many girls. His sensitivity is also a manipulative trait as we see he’s able to remember tiny details like the lime can soda scene. I think he takes the position of not being a perpetrator as he says, ‘we’re just friends, right?’ Which kind of clarifies his position. At the same time his entire conversation about just having close people is shifting the blame and such as an excuse for playing with other people’s feelings. I definitely am curious about his past.

I also like how they showed the uncomfortability with the other classmate sitting next to Nabi who made the disparaging, discriminating comments and disguising them as jokes.

And I think they made it pretty clear that Sol likes her friend. I really like Sol, so this is fun development.

Honestly, as it’s not morally related, it’s just that everyone likes different things at the end of the day, and general consensus shows what most people enjoy overall. ‘Good’ is mostly subjective anyways. No need to validate liking or hating a drama with ratings and reviews.

I think romance isn't the main plot and therefore other than her role in the CCP works she doesn't appear so much.

I agree! He half-caught my attention in 'You are my Hero' but since his character set-up as a third couple pair was quite common to me I didn't take so much notice of him, but gosh, now I totally am! This show would just not be the same without him.

Each to their own.
I suppose other than relating it could also be a matter of admiration, as I can't relate to Hong Cha-Young at all. Not to say that I dislike Jang Han-Seo, he just never stood as a character to me, but I could relate to him.
I try to go into each drama without reading too many bad/good comments of each and just the basic outline because I don't want to go in with high/low expectations and ruin my judgement.
I agree about the plot device part, because putting two in a room and having such a badly set-up stand-off was, ehh....
I think that's the lowest point of the drama (other than Inzaghi saving Vincenzo).
Hahah, I see that usually a bad ending for one character completely ruins a drama for many people because they had such high expectations and it went smooth sailing and bam-landed such an uneventful conclusion. Even though there are so many regrets for dramas, I don't think it's a waste of time and I try not to put the ending into too much thought because I had so much fun watching it throughout.

Though I guess this is also why I like sad endings, because they're also endings with regrets. I can't really remember dramas so well with happy endings, though that can also be a good thing, since it's a full circle coming to a close.

I guess about you preventing yourself from being disappointed-it might be preventive damage control, I guess. I still like to be surprised, no matter good or bad, though. Then I can analyze it later and see why I felt that way which makes it more clear on why I didn't like the execution and what the show could have done better other than just feelings.

But his new hairstyle...? Why does it look a bit, punk? Why is it swept to one side of his face and shows the other part of the forehead?
Is it because now the plot is going to really introduce him as the guy on the bad side now?
Speaking of which, Wang Shi An's new hairstyle, showing that he's several years in on his position, is pretty good-I'm glad they didn't resort to sticking some moustache on his face.

YES, Chen Mo Qun my man is back, idk why it's so great to see him but since he's left the episodes haven't been the same.

Idk if this is related, but is it just me, or even if Chinese Dramas (I'm talking mainly historical romance genres here) have less viewers, I see there's overwhelmingly much more comments in the comments section in comparison to other dramas?
I actually just looked at the number of comments, and wow, that is, a lot.
Perhaps it's the amount of episode that come out each week and the number of episodes total that also lengthen the waiting time and fuels more discussion?

Descendants of the Sun I haven't watched, but from seeing the clips of it it is more rom-com than anything, with highlight on romance.
SJK's character is more playful but also the cool male lead.
Yoo Shi-Jin is a morally upright, fight for the country type persona.
Therefore, the FL has a lot more screen-time and plot-related participation.

Whereas Vincenzo is also cool male lead, but is straight-up anti-hero (synonym: villain), too. Vincenzo is also more dark and is labelled under dark-comedy, but it's more like dark elements meets slapstick comedy. (I'm not sure if the comedy is the same type as DOTS).
Romance is a sub-sub-genre here, so it's a slow burn and not front and center.

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I'm not sure if you'd like it, because your top ten rated dramas are all romance-related, so you be looking for a romance.
But if you're asking because you don't like the FL and you'd rather her not bother the plot, I don't think it's a big problem.
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And personally, what you say about the FL is basically in line with what many people feel in the comments. Some end up loving her in the end (like me), but some don't.
Story-wise, I'd say that I started to like her episode 4 onwards, and that Vincenzo's first three to four episodes are basically not it's selling point, at all.

I'd say give anything a try. since you're asking. But don't force yourself to watch something you won't like-you're asking for a.bad experience.

Love Vincenzo, though!

I agree with the no-one expecting Vincenzo. Especially with SK supposedly being the country with the most security cameras? Eh?
I feel like Hong Cha-Young's basement might be hiding more than just gold, haha.

I think that the bed thing kind of worked though as a the whole 'sleeping on gold' metaphor, but I didn't expect much either because they NEVER hinted at any location that they especially went to that would be for hiding gold. I thought that was okay as they did introduce the basement before, but like-mm,yeah.

As for the Geumga cast, I always saw their comedy as a in-line but also separate universe from what's happening in Vincenzo. When they get involved/when there's comedy involved, it means the scene will definitely have unrealistic elements.

The one scene I definitely was not expecting was Inzaghi coming to save him, and it was a bit underwhelming (actually, I didn't feel so mad about that itself, but the fact the Vincenzo couldn't anticipate someone behind him and would literally walk, alone, into a trap?)

I would freak out too. But The Geumga Plaza I see as a metaphor for us audiences, that seeing this rogue , handsome, anti-hero (as an audience and rooting for him. That's why I like the last episode, because it brought back to earth that Vincenzo is definitely a bad guy, and as a normal person, I'd be running kilometers away from him.

I agree. Different opinions matter as well. And tbh it's never about right or wrong; unless the character makes a morally debatable choice (which can also be argued depending on circumstance), it's just an opinion. Everyone has their opinions about each character and it's useful to understand them to look into how a show could be better written.

And yeah, it would suck if all you see is, 'I agree', or that is just pointless validation.

Haha, for Hong Yu Chan I actually do have a strong opinion on him, which is that they didn't deliver his death well (or at least to me). I loved the shock death, but as for how I felt about his character, it took me all the way till three quarters of the show to feel his death, to feel sad about it, after grasping more reactions from Vincenzo and Hong Cha-Young in the aftermath. I knew before he was going to die he was going to die, and because I already knew this would be a plot point for Hong Cha-Young and because I knew his entire arc was being pushed to that moment, that all his solitary comments were going to be reflective of that, I was kind of sitting there just waiting for him to die (no offence). So I saw him as a plot point other than a person, and I admit I rolled my eyes and thought, 'get on with it'.

It's interesting to see how most people really love Jang Han-Seo. I can also understand that. My attachment to him grew, but I suppose I also half-tricked myself over time as I read so many comments about feeling bad for Jang Han-Seo I kind of jumped on the bandwagon. However, I didn't feel much about his character, and when he died, I was more irritated over the fact that the scene had to make use of two people with wounds and the camera's fight over Vincenzo's reaction, essentially. Uh yes, that was a scene failure.

I think Jang Han-Seo's death's reaction is to serve only Vincenzo's character and the audiences, and maybe I couldn't anticipate that on a huge scale for each character. I also think that I was befuddled with the direction the show was going with his character (also, interestingly, they did not use the bad guy turns good with Vincenzo but with Jang Han-Seo). Some scenes with Han Seung-Hyuk you could see his scheming side, the more sardonic side to him which came with his past (I really liked them, they fleshed him out a lot more). In front of Vincenzo, he was like a puppy, which I also half saw as a defense mechanism. I suppose I expected more, and perhaps my expectations fell short. I agree that he definitely suffered a lot. (I also liked the scene where he put the handcuffs on Han-Seok, but tbh when he said he didn't need to fly out somewhere or have bodyguards...? It felt like the script was putting words in the character's mouth)/

I think the thing with the show itself, Vincenzo, is that towards the end, many actions can just barely be put in line with the character's motives and thoughts, that yes, it can all be ratonalized but it still makes you uncomfortable to say that 'it makes sense'.

BUT I still love it.

I do think Han-Seo had to die though. What do you think about that?> Are you just irritated about how he died or also the fact that he died?

Haha, yeah. I also really love Miss Lan, the dancer-she has such a strong stance and she knows exactly what she's doing, and is so confident. But I feel sometimes that even though plot-wise I stand on ZLY's character, I think that Lin Nansheng sometimes feels like the plot's gears, wheras all the side characters outshine him. ZLY is great, but sometimes his reactions are so....outspoken, sometimes he's subdued, and I know the general gist of his character is that he's this introverted, but very, very determined, somewhat idealistic, and if not for his circumstances probably gentle and empathizing person. He very obviously brings guilt with him and that is what makes him stutter or feel shame-otherwise, when it comes to his allegiances he isn't afraid to back down from what he wants to do, though he might need some prodding. And I know character development is definitely coming. I just thought that he kind of stayed the same throughout even though it's great to see a 'normal protagonist'-plus, the supporting characters are so fun to watch I didn't really notice this throughout. Idk if this is a good point or not-maybe it depends on what the show wanted to do. Is ZLY the surface male lead, but in reality, the other characters and plot are supposed to shine through? In real life, this certainly makes sense as even though he is not so present I see the show in his lens, how he navigates these relationships. But if not, I guess it is not a good point. Viewing the show, however, I actually quite like this format-instead of having a male lead, I think it's more of a huge group of people sharing the starlight, and t's just that they prefer to use one narrative/perspective.

I'm up to episode 15 so far, and I'm loving The Rebel~it's been a while since I've seen a CDrama that I so enjoy with the plot and characters. Politics aside (actually, I just really like the characterizations here, I kind of just brushed over the whole party vs. party-it's war) I gotta say that Lin Nan Sheng is indeed is too emotional as a spy. it is so important to leave back some humanity inside you for such a job, but even though I know his allegations side with what is right for this show, like...legit !With the knowledge of his leanings and actions, I would not hire him. I totally agree that he is the most halo-less male lead ever. He is still likable though.

Grand applause to Wayne Wang and Wang Zhi Wen, whose characters Chen Mo Qun and Gu Shen Yan are the most charismatic, appealing, and interesting characters of this show. They delivered excellently! And at this point, I honestly feel a little bit bad for Chem Mo Qun. The guy actually does work really hard, haha.

Edit: Wang Shi An and Zhu Xiao Xian's actors are great too! I absolutely love the father-daughter dynamic between Zhu Xiao Xian and Zhen Zhen.
And I just love Min Guo setting dramas.

Ah, okay. Personally, I loved her, but I can also see why you'd think she's useless. She wasn't so much related to the plot in the first few episodes as other than being a part of Wusang, which helped Babel and therefore was against Jipuragi & co/Vincenzo (I thought perhaps she was also to give Hong Yu Chan some depth, because for the first few episodes I didn't really see how Hong Yu Chan and the Geumga tenants were important). After siding with Vincenzo, she was needed because Vincenzo can't practice law in Korea so she stood out for all of the cases. As for her personally, the scriptwriter mentioned that romance is an integral part of the story because Hong Cha Young is someone Vincenzo cannot let go of in Korea.

Tbh, when a show mostly concerns a plot, then each character serves a certain role for it/a main character (e.g you have the comedic effect people), and the way an audience can understand each character or see them as more than just their functions in the plot is if you can understand the relationship, feel the chemistry, or understand the weight each character carries. I suppose that you would think that the writing didn't convince you.

Two cents.

Haha, I would have thought heart-racing is a notch higher than heart fluttering.
Maybe the direction isn’t clear? (The plot i literally around their entire relationship, whether that’ll go down good or bad). I only just started following the WEBTOON but I only get one episode a day so I don’t think that’s helpful for me lol. But the first episode follows the webtoon’s first five,six episodes pretty well (I think their are more personality details in the show though).
Idk, I don’t really rate shows until I finish them/drop them.
Maybe it the male lead’s status? He’s not conventionally like,
Nice.
He’s a red flag so maybe that’s why? Do first episodes usually get ratings above 8 on MDL? I would think that the user rating system on MDL is generally exceedingly generous.