Eleison

Also, the Queen reminds me of Marion Cotillard.

And which drama(s) nerfed his looks? He was still pretty beautiful in Strong Woman Nam Soon and Record of Youth, though, wouldn't you say? 💁‍♀️

Whoa, that's much better; why'd they change it then? 😅

I thought the ML was Ahn Hyo Seop from the poster! 😅 But it's actually our ML from Knight Flower. Fun to see him getting more main roles. :)

But then why weren't his other dramas popular and/or why didn't they do well? 🤔 Genuine question, though, I'm not being snarky!

Oh, and tell me what you think after you're done! 😏

It's the sort of entertainment I want to recommend to everyone I know but then I remember it's a limited access Cdrama and most people I know probably wouldn't last 5 minutes watching it without help. They haven't built up any acclimation to the genre, so they'd give up too soon. I am going to show it to my sister, though, and I know she'll love it. She's my drama-watching buddy. 😋

It also doesn't have a lame title like so many other Cdramas. 😅 (e.g. "Love Like The Galaxy"? I can't even say it without cringing 🫣)

I don't think it's for everyone, but it does have some lovely stuff if you hang in there. I'll admit there were some parts I did skip a bit in the first half, but I shouldn't have been in a rush to finish. It's not that kind of drama. Cause it's the sort of thing you can't ever rewatch in the same way again, so the first watch is the best watch and therefore should be properly enjoyed. ☺️

This synopsis it not doing it for me... but Netflix rarely does it for me, so maybe that's part of it. 😅

And yes, Korean is much easier to listen to, still! There's no way I could have made it through Cdramas if I hadn't spent all this time watching Kdramas. They are much less readily accessible to the Western viewer, I think. But I am gathering a few vocabulary words and phrases now after watching 5 or 6. 😂 I've only tried the dramas rated 8.7 or above (except one a bit lower), and they've been mostly safe and quite good, except The Long Ballad which I couldn't finish the first episode of. 😅

The modern ones I tried were When I Fly Towards You (a very cozy slice of life/high school to adulthood drama) and Hidden Love (a romantic drama with a few things I didn't like but overall quite good. Cdramas still tend to make their MLs more aggressive sexually/romantically than I like which makes them feel like older Kdramas (though this one only has hints that just made me uncomfortable here and there), it does not always sit well with me. It had convincing romantic acting with some of the best flirting I have ever seen in a drama 😅). It also managed to stay interesting for 2 or 3 times the number of episodes as a Kdrama without side characters, a murder plot or angsty, dramatic plot twists. Couldn't believe it (Kdrama writers need to take notes!). The modern Cdramas also feel kind of plasticky, like they don't exist in a real world since they seem to tone down the strong governmental presence that exists in real life to makes things rosier and fluffier. Kdramas feel much more grounded, even though I know they're also not obviously "real."

Yes, very true! I struggled with Hotel De Luna, too. 😅 I tried My Gilfriend Is A Gumiho and again, similar thing, some good, some bad (there's not much I've seen that Lee Seung Gi couldn't save, though, so it was also probably partly him; he's a very consistently good actor who can make a mediocre project when he finds himself in one bearable 😂). Haven't tried A Korean Odyssey yet.

I definitely enjoyed AOS 1 and 2 the best of any of their dramas.

I loved Under The Queen's Umbrella, but as for your list (thank you!), I think Empress Ki sounds too depressing for me. 😅 I can stomach political intrigue as long as I have a few people to root for... and I was afraid I would just frustrated watching Empress Ki.

However, Six Flying Dragons is definitely on my list and seems to be to Kdramas what NIF is to Cdramas. I just can't find it legally anywhere in the U.S. 😭 I'm still waiting for it to come to a platform I use. Until then, I'm waiting. 😅 I'll have to check these others out, though!

And yes, even after watching two other pseudo-historical Cdramas (Love Like The Galaxy and The Double--both also quite good, but I think when all is said and I done I liked The Double best of the two, but the BGMs for LLTG was gorgeous and the production value was very good, and having Zhao Lusi made it a huge plus, she's simply amazing once you get past her baby voice 😅), I still massively struggled with the names and keeping everyone straight in NIF at the beginning. 😅 I'm also not a huge fan of the wuxia/xianxia elements (there is only a small bit of it in NIF, as far as the fighting goes and a few other things), but there are a lot of terms and ideas that take time to get used to see how they all fit together and build the world of the characters. It's weirdly kind of like a fantasy world that all the dramas use to tell their stories. Never encountered anything quite like it! And anyway, I just asked a bunch of questions on the threads as I watched and users (particularly @ShortCircuit on NIF and @TaliaToo on The Double page) helped me make sense of stuff that confused me, which helped a ton.

Nice to know it's in your list--I don't think you'll regret watching it when you get to it!

On a rewatch, I noticed more than ever the clunky writing in Season 1, too.

While it was airing I was just so swept up in the story and trying to figure details out that I overlooked a lot of stuff that I couldn't sit through in a rewatch.

I honestly think both seasons have a pretty comparable amount of strong and weak writing. Both are not perfect, but Season 2 was at a disadvantage before it even came out because fans had expectations for what it would deliver after Season 1, and many people were attached to the FL in Season 1, too.

Also, since our tastes often align and scripts fascinate you, have you ever dipped your toes into Cdramas? I ask, because I have started to selectively dabble with Cdramas, and I just finished Nirvana In Fire recently. It was absolutely amazing. I feel like you would like it. I can't be 100% sure that you will, of course, but it is some pretty stellar writing and has fascinating arcs and endearing characters (the ML, Mei Chang Su, is now one of my favorite characters I've ever watched before).

There are Kdramas I've enjoyed more, but maybe none that can beat this drama as far as writing goes. It makes most Korean sageuk scripts look like mud pies in comparison. 😬

It was hard to keep track of characters/their names because, well, Mandarin and I don't know Chinese names, but besides that, it was shockingly good. It has a very slow, gentle pace, especially earlier on, but everything in it matters, so you know it will build to something later.

A suggestion if you're looking to try something different! It is 54 episodes, 😬 but each episode is only about 40 minutes, so they go fast. I have to find a balance between binging (54 episodes is not bingeable unless you have no job or are retired 😅) and waiting for days in between (since if I wait too long I forget the details and can't remember what happened--this plot is very intricate!).

Anyway, thought I'd put it out there!

I think people had specific expectations for Season 2 which were not met (like a girl boss Naksu who doesn't get saved by Jang Uk, etc. and uses her powerful training in spells and such). People thought she became a beautiful doormat or damsel in distress because she didn't demonstrate the kind of strength and power they wanted to see.

But Go Youn Jung is just so good, and their chemistry in this is much better, I think. In Season 1 Uk and Mu Deok felt like comrades-in-arms and their romance was a byproduct of that comradeship, but in this Season, they lean more heavily into the romantic nature of their attachment since they cannot partner in the same way they did in Season 1, and this new kind of partnership allows for the romantic tension to shoot through the roof. 😅

I love this, and I really like your analysis of Cho Yeong/Bu Yeon hybrid as our "third" Naksu, in a sense. That was well-explained!

Did you know the voice overs for Naksu in Season 1 were all done by Go Youn Jung? Every time we hear Mu Deok "think," they used Naksu's original voice (Youn Jung). That's why her voice over and Mu Deok's voice (which also has a noticeable dialect) sound different. Fun fact!!

That's also probably why Naksu's voice and turns of phrase feel and sound familiar in Season 2. 😏

Agree with this! While I didn't find it boring my first time through, there are parts I now skip on rewatchs (sorry, Maiden Kim and Park Jin, you guys are SO boring). Both seasons had plenty of draggy moments for me.

Rewatching definitely exposes the weak parts, plot holes, and incomplete world building, but there are (as you say) definitely strong parts that still make the whole thing worth it to watch.

But yes, definitely some unnecessary fluffy and filler! I also loved Go Young Jung. She kind of feels like a Korean version of Zhao Lusi (a very strong, versatile Chinese actress who is also fantastic!).

For instance, Naksu (the assassin trained to kill) in Season 1 is tough, jaded, cold and brusque/brutal, protecting Jang Uk throughout the season in inflexible, harsh ways that is all she knows, while Jang Uk is relentless in his search for freedom to pursue his dream and desperate for someone to be on his side. He is optimistic, charming, sweet, deeply stubborn, and unable to be squashed.

They reverse these personas for the characters in Season 2.

Jang Uk becomes cold, jaded, cynical, and harsh after being romantically burned (due to being murdered by his fiance who ran wild...) and yet still "reluctantly" protects Naksu who is now innocent, charming and warm (due to her amnesia--the Naksu she would have been if she'd never been an assassin), desperate for someone to support her in becoming her own person (and using her wits and womanly charms as that's all she now has at her disposal) as her "mother" uses and misunderstands her just as Park Jin did with Uk in Season 1.

Naksu also has incredible power bubbling beneath the surface yet to be fully realized (since now she is joined with Bu Yeon and a kind of reincarnation of Jin Seol Ran), like Uk had in Season 1; Uk is the harbinger of the King's Star, which makes him a kind of reincarnation of Seo Gyeong, too. Seol Ran and Seo Gyeong were lovers, just as Naksu and Uk are.

In Season 1, Naksu was Jang Uk's hope, in Season 2, Jang Uk is Naksu's hope.

The only added element in Season 2 is that Uk subconsciously senses who Naksu is, and falls in love with her again without fully realizing that she's only ever been the same person. It takes him quite a while to figure it out, though!

And while the ending conflict was a bit anti-climactic as far as plot resolution, I loved the way the story ended for our Ukkie and Mu Doekkie; loved the last episode and final scene. ☺️

Random Side Note: Did you notice our FL has FOUR names when all is said and done? 1. Naksu, 2. Jin Bu Yeon, 3. Mu Doek, and 4. Cho Yeong. I'm glad she chose Cho Yeong as her final name to go by. 🥰

Rewatching this with my sis and, unexpectedly, I'm enjoying it more than my rewatch of Season 1. (I loved both seasons on my first watch) Go Youn Jung is just so endearing and adorable!

Even more than before I notice the roles and characters of Naksu and Jang Uk being swapped in the seasons. I like it, and enough justification is given for the change in behavior and roles (in my opinion, at least). I know some people hated this, but it really worked for me!

Look for it, you'll see the way they flip flop in personality and demeanor and in how they relate to each other.

I agree with what the reviewer I said "nailed it" wrote, but I'd mainly say that I didn't care for Amogae and his story (I thought he was kind of boring and too gray to root for), and I didn't like wishie-washie Gil Dong who was just out for profit and floating around aimlessly. I liked the second half because I thought the romance was sweet (you haven't gotten to much of that part yet) and I enjoyed seeing Gil Dong become honorable and fight for the people. I always thought of Mori as a foil to Gil Dong, and that's why I liked his arc because Gil Dong inspired him to let go of his bitterness and make different choices. I did think the stuff they incorporated about him being super strong later on was random, but I have yet to watch a sageuk where everything that happened made 100% sense and fit together without plot holes or loose threads (except maybe Under The Queen's Umbrella). This drama is no exception. I loved it despite it's flaws because I like character growth and close friendship/familial bonds. Did that provide you a taste of my reasoning? I could say more, but it seems you've already made up your mind. 🤷‍♀️

So yeah, the second half is the part I rewatch and the part I enjoyed most. Besides, Episode 18 is just starting the second half. I'm not quite sure how you can confidently say you think the 2nd half was worse when you haven't finished it yet? 🤔

Haha, oh. Well, I completely disagree; but to each his own!