Eleison

Just watched Nirvana in Fire. It's a Cdrama, but still an absolutely incredible drama. So. Good.

Rebel: Thief Who Stole The People is a good sageuk (one of my favorites, along with Under The Queen's Umbrella) and the ML is a lead in SFD, which might be fun for you to see. :)

Well, whenever I see someone mention NIF, they rave about it, and now I finally know why. What a stunning, heart-wrenching, beautiful drama.

Balanced and steady, the story and characters seep slowly into your heart. And then... they take up permanent residence. 😂

It's as near perfect as it could be.

All I'll say is, be patient, embrace the gentle pace, and watch this masterpiece gradually unfold. It's absolutely worth the wait!

P.S. And, just fyi, if you don't want to follow Mei Chang Su 'to Hell and back' by the end of this drama, it might be a sign you have a heart of stone... 😉

Yeah, we never do get an explanation for why he and his friend were at odds in Episode 1, and what he seemed so upset about. I think what @RetiredGodofWar said makes sense, but this was definitely also left somewhat unaddressed.

Intercultural relationships are great for stories, but in real life they are VERY hard. Many that I see don't work out well. I know they CAN be done, but marriage/relationships are hard enough with someone who already shares your culture and background!

The more I see them the less I want one. 😬

I think it's a completely different generation than Season 1. I think Ting Sheng (the slave boy who gets trained to win against the Northern suitor with a special sword routine) is the only character that's in both seasons, from what I hear.

Okay! I've never read a Chinese novel, but I assume it's fairly modern?

That part cut from the drama with the hound sounds very Odyssey-like. 😏

My heart also broke at the scene where Xia Jiang tries to sabotage their friendship and Jingyan falters in his trust and they have that horrible altercation in the passage. Chang Su's shock and panic that Jingyan might discard him was so heartbreaking (probably partially because he was hurt, but largely because he was afraid, and afraid for Jingyan). It gave me the shivers to see the way he forced Jingyan to realize the error in his thinking rather than getting to the bottom of Jingyan's sudden, inexplicable coldness (also, the way Chang Su called Jingyan's name when he got angry with him and spoke familiarly to him. How could Jingyan not know it was his bestie? 🥹); Chang Su only ever thinks of other people and what is best for them, and never about himself. It's why his character is so beautifully sad; never once has he lived for himself!

(But at some point I want him to be selfish, to enjoy those around him while he can because they don't have long with him. 😭 They lost you once, dude, have some compassion on them! We know you've embraced the fact that you'll die, but they haven't! Especially not after they got you back from the dead!)

And then the way Jingyan realized, too late, what Chang Su had warned him about, that more people would suffer if they saved Wei Zeng. 😭 (Xia Jiang was gonna be TOAST). Jingyan has grown on me, too, because he was so stiff at the beginning that I struggled to see him as a main character for some reason, but as the actor started having to show more range and nuance for his character's arc, I'm now quite attached to him (I think he started growing on me more when he was in his mother's room, and broke down for the first time because he missed Lin Shu. 🥹 That was precious ).

I was relieved they started showing more flashbacks of them together outside the overused flashback of Chang Su "dying" (that's my only gripe so far; they played the Chiyan Army getting destroyed flashback way too many times).

I'm curious to see if Jingyan will be frustrated that he didn't figure it out like Nihuang and Consort Jing? They didn't need to be told. (And Commander Cheng already knew beforehand, haha, so he doesn't count).

Unlike most dramas, the second half of this is definitely the most enjoyable part. I know the slow parts in the beginning/middle were important, but after Episode 30 it really started picking up for me. It ups the ante and has so many great moments. Anyway, I'll report back after I finish, haha. 😂

P.S. You know the BGMs are good when you get excited to hear a theme again or long for it when you haven't heard it for a while. None of these reactions apply to this drama: "Why are they playing this again!?" or "I didn't even notice the music." 😅

Yep, I think so (to the virus). 😅

Yes, Consort Jing is amazing. She's so clever but is always composed and careful so people just constantly underestimate her.

And poor Jingyan thinks he has no friends and is so lonely and forlorn; is he bothered and melancholy (after they return from the Hunting Palace) because he knows Chang Su and his mom are lying to him? I know he's bothered by the case, but I'm wondering if he partly wants to uncover the truth because he senses he can't know the truth about Chang Su until the Chiyan army is cleared. I don't know. I just get the sense that he knows more than he realizes, but it's all too deep for words?

It's also fun to see how we all (the audience and those around Jingyan) underestimated him; all except Chang Su. And then he brought out the gem for all to see and everyone is surprised, but Chang Su's not. 😅 So good.

And Chang Su and Nihuang are so cute and heartbreaking at the same time. I love her character, too. And Commander Meng is also just the best. It's crazy that he knows so much long before Jingyan! 😅

The way Chang Su and Jingyan made plans to thwart Prince Yu's rebellion and were thinking in unison was so cool to watch. I was already lost with their conversation and then the camera showed Commander Meng looking between them with bewilderment and then he finally was like, "Dude! I can't keep up with this, someone help me understand what just happened!" (Was he maybe even having a bit of fomo? 😅).

It was just a perfect moment, and then the way Chang Su just casually pulled out the sword from Jingyan's scabbard like it was his weapon. And Jingyan's face. 😅 And then Chang Su had one of his VERY few "oopsies" moments with a facial expression showing that he was inwardly kicking himself.

I love that the cousins/friends are building another bond over this new struggle and Jingyan trusts Chang Su now as a good friend without even knowing who he really is. Can't wait for the reveal!!

Usually the trope of "I have to keep the truth from this person for their good," annoys the heck out of me, but this time the writer made it 100% make sense. Chang Su knows Jingyan like the back of his hand, and he knows his friend would never be able to be successful with their plan if he knew, and Jingyan delivers on all of Chang Su's predictions, which shows Chang Su's incredible intuition and insight. I love that careful tension of Chang Su trusting Jingyan deeply while at the same not trusting him at all. 😅

I'm loving this (at Episode 43), but just gotta say, who in their right mind would name their sons:

-Jingyu
-Jingyan
-Jingxuan
-Jingting
-Jinghuan
... 🤯

(I'm even missing a couple!) Maybe there's a rational explanation that has to do with royal custom or the language, but regardless, it took me almost half the drama to keep them straight. 😅

I think it also partly took me so long to keep people straight because many names are said without ever having a face to go with it, so until I could put names and faces together routinely, I was lost in the sea of similar names. 😅 I find Korean names super familiar now but the learning curve is steep again for tracking Chinese names. 😩 Oh well!

These terms and concepts are a big learning curve so far, but very cool to learn about. Thanks for the tip!

Haha, I was thinking I'd probably try season 2 afterwards! The only character overlap is TingSheng, yes?

I might have looked up some stuff about season 2 so I kind of know where the story is headed, and it's comforting to know that where MCS's father and friends failed, MCS and his friends will succeed (in putting a good Emperor on the throne!). I mean, even if I hadn't see the details, I guessed that's where we were headed if it ended happily. ☺️

I'm excited to see where the story goes. :)

ByJingyan you mean Prince Jing, right? And yes, I admit he's quite beautiful. 😅

Harem games how? Like the consorts scheming? I love Prince Jing's mom so far, and it totally makes sense that the moms would almost have more power than their sons. I can definitely see the connection between the son's power as proportional to his mom's power over the Emperor (unless you have a personal MCS giving you extra help, of course 😉).

Looking forward to the scenes you're talking about!

Haha, got it. I think it just helped me to think of it in these terms since the more powerful fighters harness some sort of natural energy (their qi?) to become more powerful. That seems similar? And it's kind of separate from simple sword-fighting techniques but more bound up in how you control the "energy" around you or in yourself? But like, the way tiny Fei Lui can lift huge men--it reminds me of the stuff Jedi can do because there's another almost "magical" element at play than just fighting techniques and physical strength.

And thanks, I really have NO idea what any of this is so it's very helpful to have a bit more context. I appreciate the detailed breakdown.

So... they're kind of like the Jedi, if the Jedi could be good and bad, and less monk-like? 🤣

Also, so far, I'm enjoying it! I'm around Episode 16 or so? It is a bit slow, but I like that I don't feel bated into watching more through cheap spectacle and silly plot twists. I love that the actors don't feel like gorgeous models with tons of plastic surgery or filters for their face (everyone looks more natural), and minus the wuxia-style martial arts which obviously isn't "realistic" (but still cool to watch), I love the realistic settings and tamer costumes. The sets are lovely, and the scenery and score compliment the subtle movement of the story very well.

I was extremely confused by who everyone was for a while, but I'm getting a much better handle on who everyone is, and how they're related to one another. I was still just confused by Nihuang, because there are so many similar names and it's not always clear (especially at the beginning) how they're related.

Right now, I'm really curious to see what MCS means by "I'm a cruel person," and that cryptic conversation with Pring Jing about sincerity. I jnow it was hinting at his wound of being betrayed, but I might have to go back and rewatch it. Clearly everyone close to him would walk through fire for him, and it's compelling to slowly be shown why (since I know I still don't have the full picture). He's comfortingly miles ahead of everyone but not in a way that removes suspense from the problems that arise. I loved the scene of him reuniting with Nihuang--can't wait for more like it! I don't think I have the Chang Su virus JUST yet, but he's definitely growing on me bit by bit, and his relationship with Fei Lui is ADORABLE. I love how well he can get a pulse on people and what they need and what makes them tick. He's an excellent judge of character and reads people well! He's brilliant, but grounded and humble and wants good to triumph. He's too cool to be real. 😅 I also kind of love that he can't fight and is physically weak. It's rare to watch MLs (especially in this sort of drama) who can't fight (but who needs to when you basically have an extra bodily extension that is Fei Lui who won't let anything get within an inch of you? 🤣).

I'll keep you posted on what I think as I continue. Thanks for answering all my queries! ☺️

Interesting. And a mess! I always wondered if the emperors/kings ever had practical reasons for these harems, or if they were just a display of dominance and power and to prove "I can." These setups 100% created more messes for the kings/emperors than they needed to. Forget about ruling a kingdom, they're hard pressed to do anything but keep their family from murdering them or each other to get power. Again, a mess, but great fodder for storytelling, I suppose! 😋

Wonderful, thank you! And what's a cultivator, and how are they different from a jianghu?

Sorry, another question. When Chang Su talks about being a "jianghu" man and showing how he's "in charge" of "the jianghu," what does he mean?

I've looked up "jianghu" but I'm still confused by it and how it's used in this drama.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond with where you're coming from, and I have to admire your tenacity and dedication. You are indeed devoted to your cause.

(For the record--so I'm not deemed "complicit" with horrible internet behavior--when I see people saying inappropriate or nasty, hateful stuff to others no matter what side they're on, I never respond to them, I just report them.).

I know we will just go back and forth since, as of right now, we don't see eye to eye. So I will spare you more frustrating work. I know better than to engage these types of conversations with users I know I will never agree with on topics like this on MDL as we will always just talk past each other, but, alas... I responded anyway. That's on me.

If you have them, though, I'd love to read any evidence or articles (not talking points, actual evidence and reliable sources) you have with info about bot accounts (specifically on MDL), and how they work. Or ratings being fixed by MDL. I'd be happy to learn more about this! Maybe I am indeed missing some information. 🤷‍♀️

I don't believe it is a coincidence, though.

Besides, who's the one having to change their narrative? You said below unequivocally that the rating must be rigged and locked by MDL because of bots; now you're saying it was rigged until TODAY. 🤔 What a convenient change in narrative... 😶‍🌫️

This is exactly what I pointed out to another user who said the rating was sus. ALL MDL drama ratings drop over time. New, super hyped dramas that skyrocket in popularity reflect somewhat inflated ratings for a while, and then slowly drop. Sometimes it happens right after a drama ends (like WTS, that most people who watch think was decent but not stellar, and so it went down a few notches right after it ended), and other times it takes a few months/years to see the rating go down after the initial influx of loving and excited watchers/voters. If the drama's above average, the higher rating will hold decently well as years go by; if it's average, it eventually sinks to an average score. These are the trends I've noticed as an MDL user.

That said, I genuinely think a lot of people like this drama, and that's why it has a pretty high rating. The rating dropped because some people also don't like it. So, it's possible MANY people who watched this drama up to this point liked it, and SOME people up to this point who watched it, didn't like (like you). It seems that explanation is too simple for you to accept?

Others have pointed out that a lot of MDLers like romcoms over other types of dramas, and I think there's something to that. It does seem to hold true from what I've observed. And are there some people who rate dramas high because the actors are hot or just because they love an actor even if the drama is bad? Yes, for sure, but that is rarely if ever the majority, and there's no way to prove that's how people rate even if it's what you see in the comments. For instance, people were raving about BWS and posting weird thirst comments in Strong Woman Nam Soon, but it still has a super low score... because it's a below average drama). And there are dozens of other factors that might make someone rate a drama high OR low: plot, chemistry, loveable side characters, mood, character arcs, a cozy setting, how serious or funny it is, innovative experimentation with tropes, acting, etc.

The rational explanation is always the more reliable one. Implausible theories that support preconceived bias are usually faulty. (In the Agatha Christie murder mysteries everyone always jumps to supernatural or fantastical explanations for the seemingly illogical or inconsistent things that happen, and Poirot always demands the rational explanation... and he's always right. I love the lessons Christie embeds in that pattern).

I don't believe insulting people no matter what side they're on is kind or thoughtful to the community, but trying to challenge someone's logic or reasoning is not insulting them. By providing reasoning rather than throwing insults at you (notice I did not say anything like, "go tell your army of dictators"--really? What kind of comment is that?), I'm trying to engage you, another human being. That's HOW I show respect for you. If I didn't treat you with dignity, I would be calling you names and demeaning you.