Ah, I loved her in that one. 😅 It's a ridiculous premise/plot but still loved it. The lying went on too long, though. She's also super cute (in my opinion) in Rebel: Thief Who Stole The People.
Do you know when this drama gets better cause im on ep 4 find it boring for some reason. Do you know what episode…
Well... I would say it's good from the start, but it has a "slow" plot, in the sense that a lot of the movement of the story is driven forward by small, subtle movements of MCS's strategizing from the shadows, and the friendship he grows (again) with Jingyan (aka Prince Jing, the beautiful one 😆). The majority of scenes are characters talking to each other, and some people might find that "boring" if they're not tracking with the substance of their conversation.
It's essentially, from Episode 1, an elaborate, careful plan by Chang Su to get justice for his family and friends, and how his intricate plan unfolds AND how he pivots to make his plan work even as new, unexpected factors and challenges arise (I will give one small, spoiler-y detail to illustrate what the story manages to show by the end: at one point all the characters around Chang Su that would never dream of treason in the traditional sense of overthrowing the Emperor by force, are ready, IN A HEARTBEAT, to stage a coup against the Emperor because of the barest hint sickly, quiet, gentle Chang Su might be in danger. Why would they do this? If you watch the drama through to the end, you'll have your answer 😏).
I got invested in the characters I grew to love getting the justice they deserved, and that's also what kept me going. Somehow the characters you root for work within the parameters of their own roles (and stay in their lane) while undermining the Emperor and his power at the same time. Chang Su slowly and methodically declaws all of his opponents (the villains), just by thinking, planning and prioritizing people and the truth. 😍
I didn't ever find it boring, but there were parts that felt less "gripping" to watch, as the story is doing a lot of showing and not telling. Everything started coming together for me (I would say this is when I got fully hooked) around Episode 30 or so. If you keep watching for a bit more and still find it boring, it might be too hard to make it that far.
In order to like this drama I think you have to be able to track the intricate political/calculative motivations and plotting of all the various characters, and if you don't usually like that stuff, this might be tough to watch. I don't usually like that stuff myself (most of my exposure to this is in Kdramas, and their politicking doesn't hold a candle to this show as I almost always find ut boring in sageuks!), but I found it interesting here because it was clear to me how necessary all of it was; none of it felt like a side plot or superfluous.
Honestly, watching this felt a bit like reading Homer's Iliad. Sometimes events in that story (the endless battles and "side plots") seem unrelated to Achilles' rage (who only shows up in a 1/3 of the epic), but it all still feeds into and builds up to resolve and showcase the main arc (and the consequences of Achilles' decision) in masterful, necessary ways if you look closely.
So, it might seem like all these arcs can stand alone in NIF or are separate and unrelated, but they all feed into and build to a climax and resolution. If you can try to connect things to that larger arc as you watch, I think that could help? Trust the first half builds characters and relationships and is giving you a taste of who everyone is, and why WE should care about them or not and how/why they come to care for each other. It lays the foundation for resolution. The second half then just builds on all of the first half and wraps everything up in such a beautiful, poignant way.
There's little spectacle and does not rely on shocking, sordid or dramatic plot twists to keep the story moving. There are reveals but they unfold organically as the story progresses.
I don't know if that helped! I don't think it's for everyone, though, so, if nothing else I hope it helped you determine where you probably land. 😅
To me it is one of best k-dramas I have ever watched.
A classic, hands down, and introduced many, many people (me included) to Asian entertainment. This got me into Kdramas, which slowly got me into Cdramas (because I feel like Kdramas are struggling as of late, or more and more available on platforms I don't have access to/want to pay for). All because of CLOY; it got me hooked!
if any indian movie industry remakes it, it will be quite good. i mean they can crash land on Pakistan or India…
Do Pakistan and India have the same dynamic as North and South Korea, though? 🤔
But a U.S. remake does sound silly. 😅 Nothing can match the stakes/factors involved. It's like how a chaebol plot for an American show can't work either. We don't have the social structure anywhere in society to justify such a plot, nor would we have the arranged marriages and such. No one would buy it. Some stories don't work in all cultures/countries. 😅
Maybe Albania and Serbia? 🤔
It just wouldn't work unless you can justify somewhat "demonizing" the other side, too. Most people in the western world look at North Korea as dominated by a tyrannical government. So, while CLOY humanized individuals in North Korea, it didn't have to walk on eggshells when portraying the North Korean government as... less than stellar and upstanding, because no one with access to the show would throw a fit.
god i was so prepared to hate this show because his grown ass meeting teenage sang zhi and the brother sister…
Yeah, I think they made a mistake in not casting a different ML for his "younger" self or not having a slightly older looking FL when she was young (the young actress just loked super young). 13 year olds can look very young, though! I think the really important thing that keeps this from actually entering creepy territory is that he never considers her in a romantic light until she's an adult, so while she was crushing hard on him as a young girl, he wasn't until much later. The casting made it harder to not get hung up, though, for sure!
I love rewatching the episodes where he investigates whether he's her crush and flirts with her hardcore. Both actors absolutely delivered in these scenes! Their chemistry and the way he continually makes her flustered and surprised and fluttery was just the best. It was so fun to watch him torment her! 😅 Some of the best romantic moments in a drama I've ever seen.
Finished SFD on June 5th, 2024. What will I do now?
The second half of Rebel is my favorite, so at least hang in there until then. There are some really powerful scenes in that half, and a beautiful score/OST. One of my favorites.
Oh yes the tag is deserved. But it's ALWAYS a good hurt. (This has been on my rewatch list for years. It always…
I've tried a few other Cdramas that I thought I'd like based on comments and ratings and so far so good. A few, like the Long Ballad, I couldn't make past the first episode. 😅 I was so put-off by the Manga/webtoon (whatever the original was) insert scenes and anachronisms. The world felt fake and two-dimensional to me.
Some of the more fantastical Cdramas (the more full-fledged wuxia/nianxia) so far have been too flowery and over-the-top for me and so stylized it's distracting. I like the more grounded stuff like this.
But I will definitely try some more! They're definitely, in some sense, harder to get into than Kdramas because they feel much more Eastern, if you know what I mean, and so "other" in a way I'm not used to but also find fascinating.
You said you haven't seen LLTG and The Double, right? They're not as brilliant as this, but they are stronger in some ways though not as even and consistent and subtle; still really great to watch (I think LLTG's music is even better than NIF), though, and they have really cool female leads with compelling personalities and brilliant minds. (And obviously a higher production value which makes things more immersive).
Chinese drama screenwriters need to given western screenwriters (and Kdrama writers) some lessons in how to write female leads. Some have been SO GOOD. NOT something I expected, to be honest. 😅
Oh yes the tag is deserved. But it's ALWAYS a good hurt. (This has been on my rewatch list for years. It always…
And thanks for chatting back and forth! I have so much to share and unpack but because this thread is so old people rarely post (how fun it would have been to talk about it while it was airing!). I'm 100% showing this to my sister so I can talk about it with her, too. 😅
Oh yes the tag is deserved. But it's ALWAYS a good hurt. (This has been on my rewatch list for years. It always…
Well, in short, I loved it!
A few final highlights:
When Chang Su got summoned by the Emperor and all his friends were freaking out, I was inwardly shrieking at the cuteness 🥹😭. Literally all of his friends (Nihuang, Meng, never-break-the-rules Jingyan (who never would have committed treason for any reason), all of the Jiangzuo Alliance guys) were on board to stage a coup against the Emperor in a heartbeat if he tried to hurt Chang Su. And the decision was made without question, without hesitation. They are willing to break all the rules--even trample on their own principles--if it means keeping him safe. It shows their utter devotion to him, and is an incredibly beautiful homage to Chang Su AND Lin Shu after all he's suffered to get Jingyan (and the empire) to this moment. If Chang Su couldn't be protected and cherished, what had they gained? He was the heart and soul of this entire thing, and the sole reason they got this far. Protecting him was protecting the empire.
Another favorite moment was when Consort Jing told Jingyan (when he was a broken, hot mess about not recognizing Lin Shu), "Make sure you make his dream come true. You must not fail." 😭😭😭
Another scene: when Chang Su kept calling Jingyan "Your Highness" and timidly asked if he could be present for the final showdown. Jingyan's indignant anger was just the best. That Chang Su should think he wouldn't be there! Jingyan was so insulted that Chang Su even thought to ask. 😂
And of course, the showdown at the Emperor's party. I actually didn't cry throughout the drama (though I felt all these powerful scenes deeply), but the one that almost did me in, though, was when Chang Su was leaving the Emperor after he got strong-armed into allowing the case to be reopened, and the Emperor started shouting out the things they'd done in the past as uncle and nephew when Chang Su was a child and then you could see Chang Su just about lose it. That sent home just how cruel, selfish, and pathetic the Emperor was, to try and appeal to what they shared in the past to excuse his behavior. Disgusting and vile. It made the Emperor's wickedness more personal than anything we'd seen before, and it was gut-wrenching. They didn't make the Emperor a one-dimensional villain, though. He felt very, very human. It was also fascinating to see the way all the good characters managed to respect him and do their duty to him while slowly declawing him at the same time. That was masterful.
It's just the kind of revenge story I like. Chang Su didn't use his enemies' own methods that were used on him to defeat them, he simply weaponized the truth, and made sure their crimes were brought to light. And this, in itself, destroyed them (MCS talked about scheming and cruelty and conniving; absolute garbage. He never did anything of the sort). And that was a beautiful theme throughout: the truth must, and will, come out.
NOTE: I also loved the way they showed how hard Chang Su worked to strategize. They showed him sitting, thinking, being kept up at night planning and weighing options. He didn't have magic powers that always gave him the right answers, he worked his bum off to come up with them. There was a scene early on that demonstrated this which I thought was a really cool, subtle detail. Jingyan even pointed out how in contrast Chang Su and Lin Shu were but that was just because his "work," out of necessity, had to change, and Chang Su had adapted to the only tools he had now to accomplish his goals: his wits and learning.
It's essentially, from Episode 1, an elaborate, careful plan by Chang Su to get justice for his family and friends, and how his intricate plan unfolds AND how he pivots to make his plan work even as new, unexpected factors and challenges arise (I will give one small, spoiler-y detail to illustrate what the story manages to show by the end: at one point all the characters around Chang Su that would never dream of treason in the traditional sense of overthrowing the Emperor by force, are ready, IN A HEARTBEAT, to stage a coup against the Emperor because of the barest hint sickly, quiet, gentle Chang Su might be in danger. Why would they do this? If you watch the drama through to the end, you'll have your answer 😏).
I got invested in the characters I grew to love getting the justice they deserved, and that's also what kept me going. Somehow the characters you root for work within the parameters of their own roles (and stay in their lane) while undermining the Emperor and his power at the same time. Chang Su slowly and methodically declaws all of his opponents (the villains), just by thinking, planning and prioritizing people and the truth. 😍
I didn't ever find it boring, but there were parts that felt less "gripping" to watch, as the story is doing a lot of showing and not telling. Everything started coming together for me (I would say this is when I got fully hooked) around Episode 30 or so. If you keep watching for a bit more and still find it boring, it might be too hard to make it that far.
In order to like this drama I think you have to be able to track the intricate political/calculative motivations and plotting of all the various characters, and if you don't usually like that stuff, this might be tough to watch. I don't usually like that stuff myself (most of my exposure to this is in Kdramas, and their politicking doesn't hold a candle to this show as I almost always find ut boring in sageuks!), but I found it interesting here because it was clear to me how necessary all of it was; none of it felt like a side plot or superfluous.
Honestly, watching this felt a bit like reading Homer's Iliad. Sometimes events in that story (the endless battles and "side plots") seem unrelated to Achilles' rage (who only shows up in a 1/3 of the epic), but it all still feeds into and builds up to resolve and showcase the main arc (and the consequences of Achilles' decision) in masterful, necessary ways if you look closely.
So, it might seem like all these arcs can stand alone in NIF or are separate and unrelated, but they all feed into and build to a climax and resolution. If you can try to connect things to that larger arc as you watch, I think that could help? Trust the first half builds characters and relationships and is giving you a taste of who everyone is, and why WE should care about them or not and how/why they come to care for each other. It lays the foundation for resolution. The second half then just builds on all of the first half and wraps everything up in such a beautiful, poignant way.
There's little spectacle and does not rely on shocking, sordid or dramatic plot twists to keep the story moving. There are reveals but they unfold organically as the story progresses.
I don't know if that helped! I don't think it's for everyone, though, so, if nothing else I hope it helped you determine where you probably land. 😅
Hard pass!
But a U.S. remake does sound silly. 😅 Nothing can match the stakes/factors involved. It's like how a chaebol plot for an American show can't work either. We don't have the social structure anywhere in society to justify such a plot, nor would we have the arranged marriages and such. No one would buy it. Some stories don't work in all cultures/countries. 😅
Maybe Albania and Serbia? 🤔
It just wouldn't work unless you can justify somewhat "demonizing" the other side, too. Most people in the western world look at North Korea as dominated by a tyrannical government. So, while CLOY humanized individuals in North Korea, it didn't have to walk on eggshells when portraying the North Korean government as... less than stellar and upstanding, because no one with access to the show would throw a fit.
Certainly a difficult drama to adapt!
I love rewatching the episodes where he investigates whether he's her crush and flirts with her hardcore. Both actors absolutely delivered in these scenes! Their chemistry and the way he continually makes her flustered and surprised and fluttery was just the best. It was so fun to watch him torment her! 😅 Some of the best romantic moments in a drama I've ever seen.
Some of the more fantastical Cdramas (the more full-fledged wuxia/nianxia) so far have been too flowery and over-the-top for me and so stylized it's distracting. I like the more grounded stuff like this.
But I will definitely try some more! They're definitely, in some sense, harder to get into than Kdramas because they feel much more Eastern, if you know what I mean, and so "other" in a way I'm not used to but also find fascinating.
You said you haven't seen LLTG and The Double, right? They're not as brilliant as this, but they are stronger in some ways though not as even and consistent and subtle; still really great to watch (I think LLTG's music is even better than NIF), though, and they have really cool female leads with compelling personalities and brilliant minds. (And obviously a higher production value which makes things more immersive).
Chinese drama screenwriters need to given western screenwriters (and Kdrama writers) some lessons in how to write female leads. Some have been SO GOOD. NOT something I expected, to be honest. 😅
A few final highlights:
When Chang Su got summoned by the Emperor and all his friends were freaking out, I was inwardly shrieking at the cuteness 🥹😭. Literally all of his friends (Nihuang, Meng, never-break-the-rules Jingyan (who never would have committed treason for any reason), all of the Jiangzuo Alliance guys) were on board to stage a coup against the Emperor in a heartbeat if he tried to hurt Chang Su. And the decision was made without question, without hesitation. They are willing to break all the rules--even trample on their own principles--if it means keeping him safe. It shows their utter devotion to him, and is an incredibly beautiful homage to Chang Su AND Lin Shu after all he's suffered to get Jingyan (and the empire) to this moment. If Chang Su couldn't be protected and cherished, what had they gained? He was the heart and soul of this entire thing, and the sole reason they got this far. Protecting him was protecting the empire.
Another favorite moment was when Consort Jing told Jingyan (when he was a broken, hot mess about not recognizing Lin Shu), "Make sure you make his dream come true. You must not fail." 😭😭😭
Another scene: when Chang Su kept calling Jingyan "Your Highness" and timidly asked if he could be present for the final showdown. Jingyan's indignant anger was just the best. That Chang Su should think he wouldn't be there! Jingyan was so insulted that Chang Su even thought to ask. 😂
And of course, the showdown at the Emperor's party. I actually didn't cry throughout the drama (though I felt all these powerful scenes deeply), but the one that almost did me in, though, was when Chang Su was leaving the Emperor after he got strong-armed into allowing the case to be reopened, and the Emperor started shouting out the things they'd done in the past as uncle and nephew when Chang Su was a child and then you could see Chang Su just about lose it. That sent home just how cruel, selfish, and pathetic the Emperor was, to try and appeal to what they shared in the past to excuse his behavior. Disgusting and vile. It made the Emperor's wickedness more personal than anything we'd seen before, and it was gut-wrenching. They didn't make the Emperor a one-dimensional villain, though. He felt very, very human. It was also fascinating to see the way all the good characters managed to respect him and do their duty to him while slowly declawing him at the same time. That was masterful.
It's just the kind of revenge story I like. Chang Su didn't use his enemies' own methods that were used on him to defeat them, he simply weaponized the truth, and made sure their crimes were brought to light. And this, in itself, destroyed them (MCS talked about scheming and cruelty and conniving; absolute garbage. He never did anything of the sort). And that was a beautiful theme throughout: the truth must, and will, come out.
NOTE: I also loved the way they showed how hard Chang Su worked to strategize. They showed him sitting, thinking, being kept up at night planning and weighing options. He didn't have magic powers that always gave him the right answers, he worked his bum off to come up with them. There was a scene early on that demonstrated this which I thought was a really cool, subtle detail. Jingyan even pointed out how in contrast Chang Su and Lin Shu were but that was just because his "work," out of necessity, had to change, and Chang Su had adapted to the only tools he had now to accomplish his goals: his wits and learning.