I was very excited at first when this was announced because finally, our boy JJ will finally have a main role…
Every one of your points is valid. It's a frustrating series because it added and changed so much from the original story. I'd hate for anyone to go away thinking that the series really tells the story of MGYG.
For example, Itt was supposed to have created the 'Mr. 950' persona because by the time he and Pai get to university, Pai is over his one-sided love and won't give Itt the time of day. Plus, that bizarre notion that Itt would bully Pai to make him stronger is completely invented by the series. Itt is supposed to be so in love with Pai that he goes to his knees in front of him when he confesses. (Would have loved to see *that* in the series!)
In case it's of interest I posted a synopsis of the book version of the story in the discussion section.
'Your Honor, the witness for the defense takes the stand.'
One of the key elements of comedy is exaggeration, and when it comes to satirical humor exaggeration is an absolute requirement. With satire, the features and behaviors of the subject are blown out of proportion and then stretched to an extent where they become both a distortion of reality and a commentary on it. Some examples: almost all political humor as well as most of the sketches on 'Saturday Night Live', plus the entirety of series such as 'Curb Your Enthusiasm', 'The Office', and 'Big Bang Theory'. These shows and hundreds of others depend on comedic exaggeration for their very existence.
This kind of broad humor tends not to be witty or clever, since wit and cleverness rely on subtlety to hit their mark. For some people this lack of subtlety makes satirical humor a non-starter from the get-go. And, even then, not every use of broad humor appeals to the people who like it. In my own case I'm aware that a lot of people worship The Three Stooges, but based on what I've seen of The Stooges I think they're pretty lame. Now, this doesn't mean that when they do stuff like bop each other on the head or pull each other's noses that I think they're promoting domestic violence. I can accept that it's another type of exaggerated humor. For me, though, it just isn't funny.
'Tonhon Chonlatee' is a satire. The main storyline is that Ton starts out as a homophobe and eventually realizes that he is not only bisexual (I assume he's bi, anyway) but also has feelings for Chon. Because this is a broad comedy and not a serious drama, along the way we can expect to see any number of homophobic behaviors trotted out in a way that emphasizes how ridiculous they are. In addition, Ton will be characterized as unnaturally blind to what's going on around him and to how 'gay' some of his own behavior is.
It seems some people think that this comedic emphasis on homophobia is the equivalent of condoning the homophobia. But I don't know how else a satirical comedy can point out the wrongness of anything, including homophobia, if it's not allowed to exaggerate it. Has homophobia caused so much pain in the past that it should never be satirized? Maybe that's where this series goes wrong for some people. But I have, in fact, seen a number of other extremely offensive or even dangerous attitudes that have also been subjected to satire. I imagine that the same people who object to 'Tonhon Chonlatee' would be as opposed to those humorous treatments as well.
This brings me to the scene in Episode Two where Ton brings Chon, Nhai, and Ai to the massage parlor.
Like me, I bet you've watched at least one program where this kind of situation is treated seriously. For example, a father who's concerned about his effeminate son decides to 'make him into a man' by arranging for him to hook up with a woman. In one such film that I remember, once the woman is alone with the boy she realizes the true nature of the situation and responds compassionately. The two of them end up talking through the night about his sexual identity, and the next morning she pretends for the father that they actually closed the deal, so to speak. What could have become a trauma for the boy instead becomes a transformative experience.
Such a film requires realism to achieve its impact. This means that you won't find any goofy moments between the boy and the woman where she's chasing him around the room in an attempt to get his clothes off, or grabbing his hands to make him touch her breasts.
However, such a scene could easily end up in a satirical version of that setup. And in a similar vein the massage parlor scene in 'Tonhon Chonlatee' is equally exaggerated. Yes, Ton is a brainless jerk to even consider this idea, and Nhai and Ai are fools to go along with Ton and do nothing to stop him from subjecting Chon to a 'dreaded' encounter with a female, but at no point is there any sense that Chon will be traumatized by the experience. More likely, the character will have put it all behind him by the next day. And this is because it's all a satire.
In real life it would be a different matter, of course.
I can also contrast this with a scene early in 'TharnType' where Tharn forces himself on Type in the shower. This is not a satirical moment, nor is the series itself intended as a broad comedy despite its funny scenes. Because of this, with 'TharnType' I can appreciate the amount of viewer outrage. The shower scene really does seem to condone sexual assault, and can even be said to celebrate it, since it's framed as a necessary step for Type in coming to terms with his attraction to Tharn.
In 'Tonhon Chonlatee' I know we're going to see several more of the familiar homophobic tropes, just as we can be sure that Chon will react with an absurd level of foolishness when he realizes that other guys are hitting on Chon.
We'll also see lots of exaggerated situations with Nhai and Ai. The first one has occurred already, in the first episode, after Ton opens the bathroom door to catch the two guys naked together. They scream in surprise and hug one another in a cartoonish manner while Ton merely acts puzzled over discovering them this way. It's one more satirical gesture intended to emphasize how Ton is blissfully unaware of the true nature of the people closest to him. Just because this lack of awareness is not being treated with the utmost seriousness doesn't mean it's being celebrated. Ton is meant to look ignorant, and the series does stretch this to a degree that stops being realistic, but that's because the series is a satire.
Like me and The Three Stooges, the humor in 'Tonhon Cholatee' will be unappealing to some. The level of anger being expressed surprises me, though. It might be that some of us just don't think homophobia is an appropriate subject for satire. To that I would say that it's possible that a satirical treatment might be the best way for some real life homophobes to recognize how stupid they look. Not everyone responds positively to a serious, finger-wagging lecture, as much as we might think they deserve one.
I believe the intention of the producers of 'Tonhon Cholatee' is not to exploit homophobia, but to expose it. This is one reason I support the show and will continue to enjoy watching it.
I did not understand it either until i read how Nadao productions hire their employees and how much they spend…
I wouldn't be surprised if more than half of the people commenting on this page watched a 'free' version of the series. *wink*wink*
They're probably also the ones who complain the most about the price of the official version, to rationalize their thievery. (I saw someone comment angrily that the studio was 'forcing' them to watch illegal versions by not making everything free.)
No one asks but here's the number of times I heard/saw the word "baby" in Gameboys (excluding the word babe)Not…
The series was apparently still in production while the earlier episodes were airing, allowing the studio to react to the audience's response and indulge in a little bit of fan service.
My guess is that they saw that most viewers thought it was cute that the guys always called each other "baby" and so they brought more of the same.
I would never have guessed at such a high number of times, though! When the count gets up to 59 times for a 40-minute episode, that's an average of once every 40 seconds.
As I look back on the series as a whole, I think the "promise" theme was a little clumsy, especially when you consider that ground zero for the promise was when Itt found Pai's missing earring and held it hostage, leading Pai to say that he would do anything to get it back. A coerced promise isn't the same as a promise from the heart. Pai would have been within his rights to punch Itt in the nose to take the earring back by force.
The other theme -- to be willing to stand up for yourself and speak your mind -- was also awkward for me, mainly because in the earlier episodes I didn't get a sense that Pai had a problem doing that. If the series had done more to establish this as an issue that was holding him back in life then I would have been more hip to it.
My main complaint about the finale itself is that a lot of the interesting stuff took place off-screen. I would have liked to have heard the conversation that occurred after Itt showed up at the hospital to talk to Pai's mom and dad. The same with Itt's phone call to Pai's dad when he asked for permission to take Pai out on a date (such an old-fashioned throwback to the 1950's.)
Then there's that scene where Pai has his boarding pass and his bag is packed for the airport, and he happens to say that he doesn't want to go. What was up with Itt hiding around the corner? I guess if Pai hadn't said anything then Itt would never have shown his face? What transpired between Itt and Pai's parents to make that come about, and what did poor Pai do to be subjected to all these "tests" by the people he loves?
Why wait until Episode 12 to confirm that Itt had transferred to that university only because of Pai?
Also, I would have liked it if Itt had shed a tear or two.
What I liked:
- Folk picking up Pure .. literally - Itt finally smiling .. it was hard to get used to though - "No glove, no love" - Another lush Itt-Pai kiss
And I did like the series itself ... a lot. I just needed to get these other thoughts out there.
For those who enjoyed the series, you really should try the book. There's very little angst except during high school as Pai comes to terms with his one-sided love for Itt, and of course that gets turned around at university when Itt becomes a relentless pursuer of Pai.
The back story of Kurosawa made me realize how this is much more than a cute and funny series -- it teaches us something about the people we might envy in life.
I've loved every episode so far but Episode 7 seems to dig deeper. It shows how the love between Kurosawa and Adachi isn't just going to fill an emptiness in Adachi -- it's going to be life-changing for Kurosawa as well.
Hello FreshKicks ! I want to ask you something . I want to join Gagaoolala by paying with my sister's credit card…
Only if she sees the charge on the credit card bill and wonders what it is. One nice thing, though, is that the name of the company charging the card isn't "GagaOOLala", it's a neutral name that doesn't give away the purpose of the site.
Hello FreshKicks ! I want to ask you something . I want to join Gagaoolala by paying with my sister's credit card…
Hmm on second thought, the monthly payment confirmation email would probably also go to the email you used to sign up, which I assume would be your email address and not hers.
So maybe your only worry is if she notices the charge on her credit card bill and wonders what it is.
Hello FreshKicks ! I want to ask you something . I want to join Gagaoolala by paying with my sister's credit card…
It's been a while since I joined but I think initially you'll be the one to receive the confirmation email for your membership, but when they charge her credit card each month she will probably get an email about that.
This is 'The Little BL Series that Could' ... a 9.2 rating on here and over 4000 comments. When there's that many comments I think it usually indicates that a series has either really touched everyone or really angered everyone.
I just checked and ITSAY doesn't even have 4000 comments yet (rather surprising)
In Episode 1, the first time I watched Teh's big apology on the beach I expected the two guys to hug, but instead they remained standing apart by some distance.
I realize that this might symbolize the metaphorical distance that remains between them despite their reconciliation, but then I thought that they might have staged it that way so that their hug at the very end of the series would have more impact.
Also, there are a couple of scenes where Teh wears a t-shirt that has "I Told Sunset About You" written on it. Does anyone have any idea what that's about? Is the phrase "I told sunset about you" a quote from a poem, song, or book?
I find the pacing irritating too, as I’ve also noticed that many Thai BL ramas are either like this - spending…
What you say about the balance between the university scenes and high school scenes is interesting. In the book, leading up to Itt's confession 40 chapters are set in the university with only 5 or 6 in the high school.
Of course, the book version would make better viewing because Itt isn't being mean to Pai all the time. He's mean to him a bit in high school but when they get to university he's trying to get Pai to take him seriously as a friend.
Reading the comments I see Pop-Stud ships... Am I the only one traumatised that it happened.. The thought of Stud…
Great analysis. The only thing I worry about is that Tor's brother could be a sexual harasser. When Boom showed up on that first day, Tor's mother commented on how the female employees don't stay around long. Plus he encouraged her to wear more revealing clothing instead of office attire.
5 
6 
2 
For example, Itt was supposed to have created the 'Mr. 950' persona because by the time he and Pai get to university, Pai is over his one-sided love and won't give Itt the time of day. Plus, that bizarre notion that Itt would bully Pai to make him stronger is completely invented by the series. Itt is supposed to be so in love with Pai that he goes to his knees in front of him when he confesses. (Would have loved to see *that* in the series!)
In case it's of interest I posted a synopsis of the book version of the story in the discussion section.
'Your Honor, the witness for the defense takes the stand.'
One of the key elements of comedy is exaggeration, and when it comes to satirical humor exaggeration is an absolute requirement. With satire, the features and behaviors of the subject are blown out of proportion and then stretched to an extent where they become both a distortion of reality and a commentary on it. Some examples: almost all political humor as well as most of the sketches on 'Saturday Night Live', plus the entirety of series such as 'Curb Your Enthusiasm', 'The Office', and 'Big Bang Theory'. These shows and hundreds of others depend on comedic exaggeration for their very existence.
This kind of broad humor tends not to be witty or clever, since wit and cleverness rely on subtlety to hit their mark. For some people this lack of subtlety makes satirical humor a non-starter from the get-go. And, even then, not every use of broad humor appeals to the people who like it. In my own case I'm aware that a lot of people worship The Three Stooges, but based on what I've seen of The Stooges I think they're pretty lame. Now, this doesn't mean that when they do stuff like bop each other on the head or pull each other's noses that I think they're promoting domestic violence. I can accept that it's another type of exaggerated humor. For me, though, it just isn't funny.
'Tonhon Chonlatee' is a satire. The main storyline is that Ton starts out as a homophobe and eventually realizes that he is not only bisexual (I assume he's bi, anyway) but also has feelings for Chon. Because this is a broad comedy and not a serious drama, along the way we can expect to see any number of homophobic behaviors trotted out in a way that emphasizes how ridiculous they are. In addition, Ton will be characterized as unnaturally blind to what's going on around him and to how 'gay' some of his own behavior is.
It seems some people think that this comedic emphasis on homophobia is the equivalent of condoning the homophobia. But I don't know how else a satirical comedy can point out the wrongness of anything, including homophobia, if it's not allowed to exaggerate it. Has homophobia caused so much pain in the past that it should never be satirized? Maybe that's where this series goes wrong for some people. But I have, in fact, seen a number of other extremely offensive or even dangerous attitudes that have also been subjected to satire. I imagine that the same people who object to 'Tonhon Chonlatee' would be as opposed to those humorous treatments as well.
This brings me to the scene in Episode Two where Ton brings Chon, Nhai, and Ai to the massage parlor.
Like me, I bet you've watched at least one program where this kind of situation is treated seriously. For example, a father who's concerned about his effeminate son decides to 'make him into a man' by arranging for him to hook up with a woman. In one such film that I remember, once the woman is alone with the boy she realizes the true nature of the situation and responds compassionately. The two of them end up talking through the night about his sexual identity, and the next morning she pretends for the father that they actually closed the deal, so to speak. What could have become a trauma for the boy instead becomes a transformative experience.
Such a film requires realism to achieve its impact. This means that you won't find any goofy moments between the boy and the woman where she's chasing him around the room in an attempt to get his clothes off, or grabbing his hands to make him touch her breasts.
However, such a scene could easily end up in a satirical version of that setup. And in a similar vein the massage parlor scene in 'Tonhon Chonlatee' is equally exaggerated. Yes, Ton is a brainless jerk to even consider this idea, and Nhai and Ai are fools to go along with Ton and do nothing to stop him from subjecting Chon to a 'dreaded' encounter with a female, but at no point is there any sense that Chon will be traumatized by the experience. More likely, the character will have put it all behind him by the next day. And this is because it's all a satire.
In real life it would be a different matter, of course.
I can also contrast this with a scene early in 'TharnType' where Tharn forces himself on Type in the shower. This is not a satirical moment, nor is the series itself intended as a broad comedy despite its funny scenes. Because of this, with 'TharnType' I can appreciate the amount of viewer outrage. The shower scene really does seem to condone sexual assault, and can even be said to celebrate it, since it's framed as a necessary step for Type in coming to terms with his attraction to Tharn.
In 'Tonhon Chonlatee' I know we're going to see several more of the familiar homophobic tropes, just as we can be sure that Chon will react with an absurd level of foolishness when he realizes that other guys are hitting on Chon.
We'll also see lots of exaggerated situations with Nhai and Ai. The first one has occurred already, in the first episode, after Ton opens the bathroom door to catch the two guys naked together. They scream in surprise and hug one another in a cartoonish manner while Ton merely acts puzzled over discovering them this way. It's one more satirical gesture intended to emphasize how Ton is blissfully unaware of the true nature of the people closest to him. Just because this lack of awareness is not being treated with the utmost seriousness doesn't mean it's being celebrated. Ton is meant to look ignorant, and the series does stretch this to a degree that stops being realistic, but that's because the series is a satire.
Like me and The Three Stooges, the humor in 'Tonhon Cholatee' will be unappealing to some. The level of anger being expressed surprises me, though. It might be that some of us just don't think homophobia is an appropriate subject for satire. To that I would say that it's possible that a satirical treatment might be the best way for some real life homophobes to recognize how stupid they look. Not everyone responds positively to a serious, finger-wagging lecture, as much as we might think they deserve one.
I believe the intention of the producers of 'Tonhon Cholatee' is not to exploit homophobia, but to expose it. This is one reason I support the show and will continue to enjoy watching it.
They're probably also the ones who complain the most about the price of the official version, to rationalize their thievery. (I saw someone comment angrily that the studio was 'forcing' them to watch illegal versions by not making everything free.)
Cheap and shady people are the worst.
My guess is that they saw that most viewers thought it was cute that the guys always called each other "baby" and so they brought more of the same.
I would never have guessed at such a high number of times, though! When the count gets up to 59 times for a 40-minute episode, that's an average of once every 40 seconds.
As I look back on the series as a whole, I think the "promise" theme was a little clumsy, especially when you consider that ground zero for the promise was when Itt found Pai's missing earring and held it hostage, leading Pai to say that he would do anything to get it back. A coerced promise isn't the same as a promise from the heart. Pai would have been within his rights to punch Itt in the nose to take the earring back by force.
The other theme -- to be willing to stand up for yourself and speak your mind -- was also awkward for me, mainly because in the earlier episodes I didn't get a sense that Pai had a problem doing that. If the series had done more to establish this as an issue that was holding him back in life then I would have been more hip to it.
My main complaint about the finale itself is that a lot of the interesting stuff took place off-screen. I would have liked to have heard the conversation that occurred after Itt showed up at the hospital to talk to Pai's mom and dad. The same with Itt's phone call to Pai's dad when he asked for permission to take Pai out on a date (such an old-fashioned throwback to the 1950's.)
Then there's that scene where Pai has his boarding pass and his bag is packed for the airport, and he happens to say that he doesn't want to go. What was up with Itt hiding around the corner? I guess if Pai hadn't said anything then Itt would never have shown his face? What transpired between Itt and Pai's parents to make that come about, and what did poor Pai do to be subjected to all these "tests" by the people he loves?
Why wait until Episode 12 to confirm that Itt had transferred to that university only because of Pai?
Also, I would have liked it if Itt had shed a tear or two.
What I liked:
- Folk picking up Pure .. literally
- Itt finally smiling .. it was hard to get used to though
- "No glove, no love"
- Another lush Itt-Pai kiss
And I did like the series itself ... a lot. I just needed to get these other thoughts out there.
For those who enjoyed the series, you really should try the book. There's very little angst except during high school as Pai comes to terms with his one-sided love for Itt, and of course that gets turned around at university when Itt becomes a relentless pursuer of Pai.
I think they're here to stay. Best to ignore them!
I've loved every episode so far but Episode 7 seems to dig deeper. It shows how the love between Kurosawa and Adachi isn't just going to fill an emptiness in Adachi -- it's going to be life-changing for Kurosawa as well.
So maybe your only worry is if she notices the charge on her credit card bill and wonders what it is.
I just checked and ITSAY doesn't even have 4000 comments yet (rather surprising)
In Episode 1, the first time I watched Teh's big apology on the beach I expected the two guys to hug, but instead they remained standing apart by some distance.
I realize that this might symbolize the metaphorical distance that remains between them despite their reconciliation, but then I thought that they might have staged it that way so that their hug at the very end of the series would have more impact.
Also, there are a couple of scenes where Teh wears a t-shirt that has "I Told Sunset About You" written on it. Does anyone have any idea what that's about? Is the phrase "I told sunset about you" a quote from a poem, song, or book?
Of course, the book version would make better viewing because Itt isn't being mean to Pai all the time. He's mean to him a bit in high school but when they get to university he's trying to get Pai to take him seriously as a friend.