Ianto

Spontaneously, and right after watching the final episode, I say bravo to you for writing a perspective that is so spot on. We all loved ITSAY, of course, especially as it was already so different and innovative in the creativity and imagination it brought to us. But IPYTM was an absolute triumph of Poetic Realism!! The different encounters between Teh and Oh-Aew in episode 5 were so sensitively and subtly realised and developed. And the final monologue by Oh-Aew was a masterpiece of both emotion and lucidity. I wish we could all attain that level of insight.
I have seen quite a few beautiful and stunning series over the last year or so, but this is right up there at the very top with just a few others, especially for the whole artistic craft it reveals. The attempt to be raw and realistic was clearly what provoked a lot of negative reactions in some that were expecting something else, but those very same qualities, together with an incredible poetic vision, just swept me off into another realm. Sequels are not always so successful as the first series, but I really feel that the director and the scriptwriter(s) absolutely nailed it.
And indeed, even if I need a break now after all that churning but beautiful emotion, I would love to see these two young but heart-wrenching actors back in something new very soon.

What’ you don’t think the Kardashians are a great thing ???!!!???

Hoho, kidding !! I have been wondering about getting on Twitter and IG for some time now, but have always been a little wary and reluctant. What you have written here and elsewhere does not encourage me to think otherwise. As for Tumblr, there is a lot of good stuff on there sometimes (even from some of the nutters), but then you do have to stomach the hysterical French woman… I’ve stopped engaging with her anyway…

I heard about the Oab communiqué but haven’t seen it. I also read a lot of comments suggesting that the production company had not been very forthcoming in supporting or backing up the actors who were attacked.

As I wrote elsewhere once, there is clearly something rotten in the kingdom of BL…. (Not Denmark…)

I think, above all, that the Filipino dramas had a strong impact, even if some of them were quite flawed. I hope we agree that Gameboys and Gaya sa Pelikula were absolute summits in this universe. And yes, I knew about Paolo, of whom I had read that he identified as « queer »..

Btw, I am a little surprised by the comments on Chinese and the Taiwanese accent. My understanding was that the Taiwanese variant of Chinese was by far the more traditional version, rather in the way it is said that Québécois French is much closer to the way of speaking French a number of centuries ago, especially in terms of accent.

Haha, thanks. Totally agree that the emotional issues, on all levels, are far more important /serious than an admittedly passionate kiss at the end of a rehearsal. What bothered me the most in fact was Teh going to Oh-aew’s place unannounced late at night and making love to him, apparently with a view to rediscovering the emotions of the first time for the benefit of the play (as incited by Jai).

I cannot believe the delusions of some of the people on here. Some are taking Teh’s actions as a personal insult, one French woman on Tumblr considers that she has been personally « tricked » and « fooled » by the scriptwriters, directors, and their mothers…. Completely off the wall, I mean what are these people taking?

Quite true. There was My Bromance 2, but that really was a crock of ****, and Close Friend (with Ohm, yes) was rather wet.... And then he will play second fiddle to BounPrem in their upcoming series. I hope it changes for him. After My Bromance (the film), he was absolutely stunning in "Red Wine in the Dark Night".

Now that is the first time that I hear Singto mentioned in the context of this subject..... interesting.

My feeling is that you are right, however slow the changes may be. Perhaps, the Thai BL industry may turn out the be the big immovable beast, but it has surely had to face challenges from Taiwaness and, above all, the recent Filipino gay dramas, that were amazing and not stuck in the same old BL tropes. I hope they will be a force for change in any case.

I think we all want beautiful couples to stay in love and be happy. But life doesn't always turn out like that, and I think it is great that you felt that we have here a compelling and sometimes emotionally overwhelming (not beautiful in the traditional sense, but beautiful all the same....) depiction of young love and all that it can face and entail. Sure, dramas are not meant to make us feel happy, it's all there in the word: "drama". But if they make us understand, if they make us feel something important, if they give a perspective on some important aspect of our lives, and all this with a minimum of coherence and sense, as you say, ..... then I feel they are doing their job. And forgiveness and redemption are surely an incredibly important aspect of being a human....

I don't know enough about the details of each actor, but probably the only thing I disagree with is including Fluke in this. Surely, he was a well-established and thoroughly admired actor even before UWMA, where I believe he absolutely shone and certainly outshone Ohm. Otherwise, I feel what you say for all the others in your message is very convincing.

One interesting question could be: how do you see Mew fitting into the situation as you portray it?

Of course...... and let's face it, life, or a large part of it, is rather messy. Not only for young people, but also to older people...... who should know better..... haha. I can say that as a rather more mature person.....lol
And also, if you do consider that what Teh does is intrinsically wrong, or that it is something that can cause a lot of upset and suffering to others (which, btw, is the main question for me....), then we can hope that the educational function of drama will have some effect here. Even if someone seeing this doesn't automatically conclude that something is essentially "wrong", it could hopefully get them to reflect on the relative trade-offs in such as situation, such as realising that what may be pleasurable at a given moment for "me" might entail longer-term upset or suffering for someone else. Isn't that a (possibly simplistic) view of what ethics is all about?

They DID use "any" trope! They "could have" chosen many others, but they didn't, they happened to choose this one and come down on the so-called "cheating" trope. Calling that trope "nasty", and for whatever reason personal to yourself, does not mean that it is any less realistic, less common enough (20% apparently), or does not have its place in a drama about the fabric of human life and love.
As for calling it lazy, simply because you do not like it, that is not true. It is an event that, in this specific series, unlike perhaps in some others, granted, is very carefully worked into the whole dramatic development and the very specific situation concerning the new lives of this young couple, the new environment they have moved into, and the challenges that this new life, new people, and indeed their personal choices lead them to face.
Once again (because I have said it elsewhere), this is not about "normalising" "cheating" (whatever that may be precisely in a any given situation...), it is about understanding or trying to understand various things that happen in human life and indeed love (and make no mistake, they do happen...and still happen..... and for almost as many different reasons as there are people concerned).
And if you want your BL / gay drama series to be something more than pure entertainment (if not, then you clearly shouldn't be watching this), then I think it is only normal that such series bring such things to the fore..... Surely that is part of their function as works of art....

@solipsism5 Very well said, and so my turn to praise you for the way you said it. You mention Teh's single-mindedness, his idealism (which goes hand in hand with what I called his impulsiveness or his naivety....), and I think in French (I live in France), we might use the term "entier", meaning "whole": it suggest that such people have difficulty in compromising, in adapting, in moderating their responses to a given event, in giving up some part of their idea, their dream, etc. It can imply that they have great ambition and drive towards the most noble goals, in the same way it can imply that they will hurtle themselves into the next brick wall rather than give up one part of the idea in their head. I think this is Teh and this explains a lot in the way things turn out.
And, of course, we still see a lot of people getting up on the barricades and waving the red flag with the word "cheating" on it, as if this one word meant just one thing, one course of action, one motif, one simplistic idea....... and then of course delivering Teh to the firing squad and shouting down anyone who seeks to understand and who feels that "cheating" can take on many forms, take place in many contexts, have many reasons, and grow out of many contexts...... Wouldn't it be nice if they could stand back for a few minutes and work their way through all the human aspects of what has happened (as you yourself do and from both sides of the equation / relationship...). "Tout comprendre (n'est pas) tout pardonner" (based on a famous French quotation: "To understand all is to forgive all"). It is not about normalising "cheating", but you have to make the effort to understand what is happening, rather than just pointing the accusatory finger and screaming "cheating".
As for those who keep claiming this is a tired, lazy, overused "trope" in BL. As I think I wrote below, I have seen over 80 or so BLs in my life (someone on Tumblr has seen 224....!!), but I am hard put to to identify "cheating" in more than roughly 6 of them. I hardly think that qualifies as "overused". Perhaps they should tell the human race how lazy and overused "cheating" is in real life and that they should be a little more imaginative and think of something else, so that TV series can stop using the trope. But it is clear that the "cheating" (still in inverted commas) in IPYTM is very different from TWM-TNC, say, or perhaps some of the BLs where it might be used a little lazily. Here is is woven into a very well developed construct concerning the lives of these two young people, their move to a new life context, new responsibilities and goals, dreams that continue to pull or which fail, meeting new people who may support them or exploit them. This is not just one more case of "cheating" that the hysterical mob can jump on and trample under foot, it is something that is woven into the specific fabric of human life of a particular couple, who do not live in a vacuum, but in an environment that pushes and pulls in many different ways.
Saying this is not akin to "normalising cheating". It is about understanding human life and people. And, if we are to take them at least a little bit seriously, isn't this what such series, BL or otherwise, are supposed to help us do?

I think I more or less agree with everything that was written in this blog and certainly with the essential approach regarding the "dream", human emotions, the symbols, and the effects of the time jump. And this is not about normalising cheating (and bandying that word around like it meant it exactly the same things to everyone....), it's about understanding and feeling the human emotions, the fears, the flaws, etc. that contribute to these situations, which can be sad, hurtful, soul-destroying, and even tragic....

haha, self-knowledge is the road to self-betterment !!

Yes, unfortunately, it is surprising how much hate and anger these series can produce among certain elements of the fan base. There really is something of a cult fringe that one messes with at one's own risk and peril.

First, I just want to say that I am a gay man and I certainly don't need any coddling from anyone. I know many gay couples that have been together for 20, 30 years or more, as indeed I know many heterosexual couples that have divorced, cheated, etc. within 5, 10 years..... not sure things are so clear-cut. Also I think you may have mistaken your target. I am not sure that it is the gay population that is getting rather hysterical about episode 3, but rather the radical BL extremists for whom the BL doctrine must not be defiled......

Having said that, given that I did not read your comment before delivering my long rambling piece above, it seems to me that we are very much on the same wavelength in terms of the young couple's new circumstances, the impact this can have on a relationship in real life, and, indeed, what the function or the usual aim or art is. It is certainly not designed to provide a repetitive formulaic response to the specific needs of a given population, however much they consider themselves to be the high priestesses of the genre.

You are obviously perfectly right about his having no right to be mad at them. At the same time, I think you have to realise that there are various things going on in his life and his mind and the things that he is feeling lead him to react very emotionally. After all, Teh, even as an adult, is still more that a tad naive, impulsive and highly reactive. And perhaps rather a bit too self-centred on this one true dream that is acting and the theatre. Of course, he is not right, but I think you can understand the factors that led to this and which lead to the controversial conclusion of episode 3. Not defending him per se, but just trying to understand....

well, just to say that I am talking about what people call BL (although I think this covers a lot of different approaches) and certainly not all the lakorns or other types of series that exist.
I don't pretend to be an expert, but if I can bring some factual evidence, I will always try to do so.... As I say below, I think there are far worse repreated tropes in BL that the "cheating' one.
One question might be whether this "third" person will advance the story or have it go backwards totally. And how many love stories in real life are impacted by other people? Love is rarely lived out in a vacuum.
Finally, I think this will always come back, and ever more in the future (sorry....), because it comes back in life, and always wil...... (sorry again...).
But as you say, the incident may be similar but it may lead to a completely different story with different human beings, different emotions, and different outcomes.
And that is why I will stick with this couple and their story, because I feel it really is a very personal and emotional story played out by two exceptional actors. I also loved Korn & Knock in TWM (my very first BL), but it was once again a completely different story.

Furthermore, some people seem to be talking about "cheating" in different BL series as if it were exactly the same thing each time just being repeated. Yet, and still using the word "cheating", this may happen in many different ways, in many different contexts, and for many different reasons. The cheating in TWM-TNC, if my memory serves me right, was clearly a very stupid mistake in a highly excitable and irritable relationship situation, and involved outside pressure and manipulation (or harassment, if you like...). The "cheating" in other series, such as Dark Blue and Moonlight, is clearly linked to the fact that the initial relationship is already dying or has broken down altogether, and so the "cheating" is simply a manifestation of that fact, or a means to move on. In the case of Teh, the situation is very different, as I suggest in my long rambling piece above, and there are many different factors playing a role here, even if you consider that the "cheating" has actually happened.....

I am not sure I understand why some people are complaining about this "cheating" as if it were some worn-out overused trope. Excuse me, but then two young men who are studying in an Engineering Faculty at university, who are enemies or hate each, but who then fall in love is one of the MOST WORN-OUT, OVERUSED TROPES in the BL universe (do I really need to name them all ?????) and shows an UTTER LACK OF IMAGINATION theoughout the genre. Perhaps they should also stop that ALTOGETHER. But there are still so many people impatient to see the next one.....

I did not come to IPYTM as a BL (although I clearly did because of the gay content). I did not come to it as a shipper of BKPP (although after ITSAY I do admire these actors incredibly, clearly among the very best...). I came to it after having experienced a beautiful human story in ITSAY, and because I wanted to see how things will develop.... Of course, there are many tropes that are repeated from one BL to another (if you consider this to be a BL), from one gay drama to another, from one love story to another, etc., etc. But even with the same elements and tropes, these can be very different stories and characters. Don't mix up IPYTM with another series, simply because there may be some similar elements. In the end, I may be shocked and saddened if they do break up, I may even not like the series finally....... (it's a hypothesis), but I won't say it was awful simply because they included an incident which is nevertheless common in reality and occurs in a few other series out of the more than the hundred or so series that go to make up the genre.

I have been compiling a list of all the BL's I have seen from all Asian countries, I have at least 80 or so series on my list, and I am far from having seen all the BLs available, in particular some of the very first historical ones. The fact that some form of "cheating" takes place in what...... 6 of them (?) (and it doesn't seem to me that they all correspond to the real serious form of cheating) hardly makes this a worn-out trope that should be avoided at all costs. I mean, has the human race given up on this so-called "cheating", because it has already been done so often........ Clearly, the human race lacks imagination per se....

OK, so I have finally got round to watching the third episode of IPYTM and I must say I have great difficulty understanding the almost hysterical reactions that I have read on here but, above all, on Tumblr. It seems that there are certain triggers that send some people off into a maelstrom of (personal) offence, anger, and hatred, which seems to indicate that they shouldn't even watch such series if they are not sure that they are 100% conform with what they think the series should be. Of course, a certain amount of marketing goes into the production of many series, but in the case of a work of art (and ITSAY, and possibly IPYTM, certainly was a work of art), I am not sure that the creators are simply seeking to give the receivers exactly what they want....

For me, ITSAY was about two young men coming to realise their love for each and very much after going through various trials and tribulations. The conclusion was their consecration as a couple ready to face the big wide world ahead of them. IPYTM brings us to this new world and thus reality starts to kick in. New places, new contexts, new friends, and new activities can lead to a whole pile of changes that may have a considerable impact on a relationship, which may lead to a strengthening of that relationship or, as unfortunately in many real-life cases, to the destruction of that relationship. That is reality whether one likes it or not. I don't know how Teh and Oh-aew's story will end - of course, even I harbour the desire that they will be together forever, but my knowledge of reality has shown me that even the most beautiful couples can fall apart.

So, how did this all happen? Quite apart from the changing circumstances that I mention, there is also the specific story of Teh. He is intensely into acting and the theatre, and that is where he sees his future. This is his dream, his obsession, almost an article of religious faith for him. Hence, when he sees various people around his abandoning that dream, including the young man he loves, he starts to feel that things are not going as he imagined, that he is perhaps being abandoned, that he and the people he loves no longer share the same dream. This is especially true in his perception (i insist on the word "perception") of how Oh-aew has apparently changed (no longer interested in acting, change of hair colour that makes him feel this is not the same person, going with a new group of friends.....). Love is obviously about sharing things, not just physical attraction. And Teh, even at the age of 20 or 21, i.e. an adult, is still a bit naive, tends to act on impulse, and probably has a very emotional rather than a rational reaction to things. He is obsessed with acting, and I suppose that Jai then appears as one of the last true believers ofthe faith, a talented director with whom he increasingly seems to share a lot. And in the context of a play about love and sex, not to mention the assistance of plum wine, I think he falls into various feelings and attractions vis-à-vis this person and what happens happens. Of course, the moralists and the fantasists all think this is wrong, but I think it is clear that this is life and it often happens, with varying outcomes, of course.

So many people have been bandying the word "cheating" around, and I was expecting something a lot more serious than what we actually saw. Of course, the ambiguity between the acting exercise and the real desire is perfectly clear and no-one doubts that Teh is sufficiently under the spell of Jai to want to kiss him, indeed most passionately. But then Jai does step back and re-assumes his role as director trying to get his actor to improve his approach. The harm is done in as much as Oh-aew has seen this, but we can never really know if Teh would have followed through his apparent intention right to the end. In any case, intercourse did not happen, although the biblical moralists woumd have us believe that intention is a bad as consummation.

I have also seen many accusations of "bi-phobia", which, I must admit, leave me at a loss to understand. True, Teh did have a girlfriend in ITSAY, but it seems to me that he is fully oriented towards guys at this moment in his life (witness the total lack of chemistry with the female actress during rehearsals). In any case, it never crossed my mind once that Teh was intrinsically bisexual and this episode was a way of saying that bisexuals are like this and will flitter off with the first person they see, because their so-called failure to make a choice would apparently mean that they cannot settle down and embrace stability. Sorry, but this is where I feel I have to say utter nonsense. I don't believe that the majority of viewers perceive Teh as intrinsically bisexual and then draw such narrow-minded conclusions.

I also see people saying that this is not what a BL series is supposed to be or do and that the creators should never have even imagined bringing such elements into such a series..... it is not allowed!! Excuse me, but where did I miss the big red flashing neon sign that stated for everyone to see that this is a BL series that thoroughly subscribes to all the quasi-religious principles and tenets inherent in the BL bible?? Over the last few years, I have come to understand that for many people BL is a fairly clear combination of specific tropes that reappear and that certain followers of the genre expect every time round. For me, the good thing is that many series in other Asian countries, and also in Thailand, are slowly liberating themselves from these constraints and moving to real-life dramas about young people, sometimes a little older (I loved ATOTS), and their lives, their loves, etc. Are ITSAY and IPYTM BL series? I would be tempted to suggest that their whole (international...) success is due to the fact that they are more real-life gay dramas (not BL) that are also beautiful works of art that attempt to tell the story of two young lives in an honest fashion. Obviously, I feel that no-one has a right to declare that the creators of a fiction must absolutely follow all the articles of the BL doctrine just because such people are hooked on that specific genre. ITSAY, and possibly IPYTM, are works of art and are so because they go beyond and defy such a limited conception of the genre.

A work of art is not a repetitive formula. It is intrinsically a form of experimentation in which new things, new ideas, new visions are often tried out, very often against the background of the traditional structures. They may seek to portray real-life (as here, I believe), or they may seek to perpetuate some lovely fantasy. They may work out, and sometimes they don't. And, of course, everyone is at liberty to appreciate the result or not. It just seems to me that some of the abuse and accusations that I have seen hurled at this series and, in particular, episode 3 are so extreme and exaggerated that I feel obliged to conclude that these people have various personal chips on their shoulders or axes to grind that have nothing to do with this series, nay, with this work of art. One does not watch a film or a new series expecting it to conform to one's every last whim or desire, or conform to the doctrine of the supposed genre it belongs to. One should expect to be surprised, challenged, and perhaps even shocked and saddened.... if certain people cannot take that, then they should do their homework before even thinking about viewing the next series. I for one am going to stick with Teh and Oh-aew to the bitter end, whatever the outcome, and whether I like it or not.....