Kai

Well, I guess that answers the question LOL 🙄💀🤷🏻

Well, let me help you out here...

Re: Wang knowing where he was going.
Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm not fully convinced, even though TruthDares made an excellent point above. My interpretation of this monologue was a bit different. But even if Wang knew exactly where he was going, it was his mother who decided or agreed to stay there. Which is why, I don't really see your point.

I'm afraid that rather than my analysis of Wang's character not being on point, it's you probably lacking certain understanding of human psychology. A lot of children of narcissistic parents realize with time what their parents' problem is. And when they do, they learn that they can predict their parents' reactions and behavior. Hell, even I know what behavior to expect from the mother of my buddy in certain situations - it is so obvious. And my buddy, he can do it every single time. That doesn't make him any healthier, doesn't make him feel any better & doesn't make him any less abused. The damage is done over YEARS, and it is to self-esteem, self-confidence, and independence, not intelligence LOL

You like to totally ignore points that don't work for you, don't you? I gave you more than 3 arguments for why philosophy wasn't a bad choice for Wang - especially since originally he didn't want to graduate at all - but you decided to disregard them point blank, and instead focus on how philosophy won't make him money. Newsflash! Most people who have a degree in philosophy don't actually work as "philosophers" LMAO. There are so many jobs this degree is useful for, you can't even imagine. Besides, who says Wang wants or needs a lot of money, anyway? Lots of people decide on a certain major while fully aware that it won't make them a fortune. Not everybody's goal in life is to make a mountain of moola.
You know what my dad always says? "Do what you love, and if you are good enough at it money will come to you regardless of what it is" And yo, it's truuuuue.

You don't know what In will do. So stop deciding for him and the screenwriters. I don't see the point of your whole 3rd paragraph to be honest - it feels like you're going in circles. But again, you totally disregarded my point's about Wang's income. He can work himself, you know. That is also a thing for a 20yo LMAO Yoooo... I know a bunch of 20yos that make a better yearly income than their parents. And guess what...they don't have a degree either. Shocker!🙄💀

Family is a different thing for everybody. If you wanted to make a decision together with your family, out of respect for them - good for you. But guess what? It was YOUR DECISION to do so. Something you are refusing Wang - a right to his own decisions.
Please don't decide what family means for anybody other than you. To me family is not a responsibility, unless it is parents' responsibility towards their underage children. To me, family is unconditional love. How you choose to express it is your own decision. In my family, we choose to express it by supporting each other in finding our own paths in life. Not by butting into everybody's business.
A 20yo should be able to decide what family means to them. And most importantly, they should be allowed to make their life decisions for themselves. Period.

You know, it seems to me that you will never back down - probably because of your upbringing. I don't think anybody has ever shown to you that it is ok to admit to being wrong, or losing an argument. It can also show your strength.

That would be great. Fingers crossed.

Actually.....I thought it was just Wang saying that he didn't go to the correct address, and chose a random destination instead, lying to his mom that they were approaching their original destination. I didn't get from this monologue that he had known In's address to start with, and decided to go there on purpose.

Oh damn, I missed that. Thanks!

🙌🏼 I'm just saying using lube isn't a deciding factor in whether it hurts or not 😜
LMAO what am i even discussing 🙄💀

Ok, let me reply to you in detail:

I really feel for you if Mol seems nice compared to your mother, but - excuse the extreme comparison - the fact that somebody killed fewer people than a serial killer doesn't make them not a murderer. Your mother's behavior does not excuse Mol's.

I am far from jumping to conclusions, but based on what you wrote about your mother & yourself, chances are that your whole life you have lived (still do?) with a narcissistic parent, manipulated into a golden cage, and haven't ever gotten out of that cage. Maybe you're so used to it that you never will, and if that's the case - you will never notice the toxicity in Mol's behavior. You will repeat you mother's behavior in adult life towards others. Let me emphasize that I'm not saying this is true, I'm just saying this is a picture you are painting for yourself.

The tyranny Wang is subjected to is mainly constant brainwashing, manipulation and attempts of control from his mother. Perhaps he can wear what he wants, and do other trivial things as he pleases, but he can't choose where he is going to study, what he is going to study, with whom he is going to live, who he is going to love - which at 20 is honestly ridiculous. The important life choices are taken from him.

I also don't believe his field of study would require his mother to support him indefinitely.
First, if he lived with In, and was in a relationship with him, chances are In would support or at least co-support him.
Second, nobody has ever said Wang doesn't want to, or is incapable of work. Not everybody has to be a doctor or a lawyer. He can travel and write books, that can be a well-paid job as well. Or do any other job that doesn't require a degree LOL
Last, even with a degree in philosophy you can find a decent job. Or maybe he could major in something more practical later, you never know. Better than not graduating at all - which was his original plan - don't you think?

Please don't tell me moving across the country at 20 is a family decision LMAO 🙄🙄🙄
I absolutely love my fam, we are super close and supportive of each other, but I moved out at 18 because it was more convenient for my school, work etc. It was my own decision.
Better yet, my boyfriend relocated to live with me from overseas after knowing me for not even two months, and guess what - he was 20 at that time. He didn't ask his parents for financial support either, and he's doing perfectly fine. His family actually never had anything against him relocating. We had a nice chat and they okayed his decision. Because he was 20, not 12!
I'm not sure if the concept of being legally an adult speaks to you LMAO But it should, because this is how the world works.

I don't think Wang "decided that In feels the same way" on his own. What is not put into words in this show often says way more than what is. Through his behavior, words, and things he has never said, even though he could've, In has clearly expressed that he 1) wants Wang to stay 2) reciprocates Wang's feelings.

Wang didn't manipulate Mol into ending up at In's house because he had NO IDEA where he was going. He just wanted an adventure, and he got one.

The bottom line is, Wang is not a good manipulator - contrary to what you say. He is an adult child of a narcissistic parent, and his sometimes hasty behavior shows very well how much he suffers from it. But above all, he is a perfectly normal 20yo who wants to get away from his toxic surroundings and start deciding for himself who he is and what to do with his own life. Cuz no mother can find the right answer for her child. You have to know yourself what makes you happy. If you end up 40 and not happy, you can't go back and tell your mom "hey mom, but you promised I would be happy if I became a doctor, and I'm not, it's your fault" LMAO She's not going to live your life for you.

LMAO the comment was supposed to be a joke 😜

Also, I thought we were talking about the show, not the novel LOL. I haven't read it, and I don't plan on doing it. And adaptations often vary from the original. I can only talk about what the show depicts.

As for using lube/not using it....let me just say, the fact that it hurt does not prove that he hasn't used lube AT ALL 💀😏🤣

Agreed about the condoms 👍🏼 Yo, at least someone is teaching those kids about safe sex.

> Mol - agreed
> Wang - agreed
> In - I would advise him to stop blaming himself, accept who he really is, open himself up to love, to Wang, but definitely be mindful that his love might not be meant for Wang, but for Siam, so before you break the poor dude's heart, make sure of your own feelings

Unfortunately, this is a tragedy (technically speaking, it is written in this literary form), so much as I would hate it, the result may very well be as follows:

> Wang goes into his father's footsteps, and dies in the end
> In learns from this and finally lives freely
> Mol...idk what she does, and honestly at this point Idc anymore LOL

OR

> In somehow sacrifices himself to protect Wang, cuz he feels like he owes Siam, and dies in result of this
> Wang goes on to live freely
> Mol - as above, hopefully she learns something

(IMO the 2nd version is more probable)

Not saying this is going to happen, but everything in heaven and on earth suggests that this show is a classic tragedy. And in tragedies, someone has to die.

👍🏼

Yep, narcissists usually refuse therapy, because this is the one disorder that doesn't result for the person who has it in real-life problems that touch them personally. Or at least that's their perception, because they lack empathy and fail to notice that their problems are the result of their actions. They would rather blame the resulting problems on others.
If you can, tell your sister's friend to talk to someone about this. Even if they don't feel then need it, they most probably do.

I hate reposting the same comment, but on this occasion I will, because otherwise you might miss it, and I can't emphasize how much I disagree with you.

So here it goes:
"You might or might've not come across a narcissistic parent irl - I don't know. But it definitely sounds like you haven't.
On the contrary, I have. Fortunately my own parents are nothing like this, but a mother of one of my closest friends is actually an officially diagnosed narcissist (and refuses therapy😒). Mol is a textbook example of what a narcissistic parent is like, and unfortunately for my buddy I have had MANY years to observe such a parent in action very closely. She is so well-written that I'd risk a bet that whoever wrote her character probably had had first-hand experience with a narcissistic parent. Wang's reactions aren't narcissistic at all. I feel you should show him some of your empathy, instead of showering Mol with it. I don't want to be making harsh statements, but your opinion of Wang kinda feels like victim-blaming. Cause that is what he is in this mother-son relationship, a victim. Wang's behavior are just reactions of an adult child trying to free himself from his parent's tyranny. He reminds me of my buddy 100%. Actually, when I showed this show to my buddy, he cried. That should tell you everything you need to know about this matter.
This is just so f*cking sad, honestly."

In addition to that, don't judge a trapped animal. Please notice that his hasty decisions are his reaction to his mother being controlling and her severe manipulation.
This so much reminds me of my friend's story, or more precisely his attempt to free himself from under his mother's control. I don't want to get into details about what exactly he has done, but everyone, including myself, had been telling him that he would regret doing it (and no, it does not involve a romantic interest LOL). 3 years have passed and he couldn't be happier about the decision he had made then. That only goes to show how much he must've been suffering because of his mother. This and 3 years of therapy (and counting) LOL

Also, Wang's decisions might be hasty, but this is what youth is for - making those mistakes and hasty decisions. If not now, then when? So he changes his major, wants to move across the country, and gets into a relationship with a guy twice his age at 20. So WHAT? He can always major in something else later, he can always move back, he can always find another partner later. His mother should be there to give him advice and support him, not dictate him what to do with his life. He is 20, and this is exactly the age he should be making hasty decisions at.
At least that is what my parents always tell me: "If you want to do something risky and stupid, within limits of course, do it now".

You might or might've not come across a narcissistic parent irl - I don't know. But it definitely sounds like you haven't.
On the contrary, I have. Fortunately my own parents are nothing like this, but a mother of one of my closest friends is actually an officially diagnosed narcissist (and refuses therapy😒). Mol is a textbook example of what a narcissistic parent is like, and unfortunately for my buddy I have had MANY years to observe such a parent in action very closely. She is so well-written that I'd risk a bet that whoever wrote her character probably had had first-hand experience with a narcissistic parent. Wang's reactions aren't narcissistic at all. I feel you should show him some of your empathy, instead of showering Mol with it. I don't want to be making harsh statements, but your opinion of Wang kinda feels like victim-blaming. Cause that is what he is in this mother-son relationship, a victim. Wang's behavior are just reactions of an adult child trying to free himself from his parent's tyranny. He reminds me of my buddy 100%. Actually, when I showed this show to my buddy, he cried. That should tell you everything you need to know about this matter.
This is just so f*cking sad, honestly.

Dude, my bf moved in with me within a month... And we definitely didn't need a ONS to speed things up LMAO. Over a month is a very realistic timeline. I feel that people making those comments are basically a bit younger than the target audience of this show. For some younger kids it might defo feel that you need one year just to get to 1st base 🙄

I guess we can safely assume Payu did use lube, even if it wasn't directly shown - otherwise Rain wouldn't have been so quick to get up the next day LMAO 😏

Both "do me" and "fuck me" in this situation mean the same, but definitely one gives the scene more oomph😏 Basically, the translation is euphemistic. What his "fuck me" really means tho - if you take real-life application of this phrase in such context, since they are already at it anyway - is "go harder". He doesn't actually say these exact words, but that is essentially how you should interpret his words in this case.
(I think somebody's already mentioned it below, or at least some of it )

In, if you really loved Siam, or have even an ounce of sympathy towards Wang, please save the poor dude from his mother's narcissistic claws, cause even at this point he is going to need extensive therapy 🙄

This.

Facts.
I'm not sure how either of those grown men are able to stand so much toxic narcissistic behavior from her. I would literally tell her point blank to stop being a manipulative bitch, even if she was my mother. I literally haven't watched anything more stress-inducing than her in a long time.