jeanfiles

"Ji-Pyeong is better for Dal-Mi because he cares for her in a way that Do San is not able to. He is able to give her advices and will tell her when she’s wrong. Do San is usually the one who is hopelessly in love and will just do whatever that pleases Dal-Mi. Although that is sweet, it is incredibly toxic and unhealthy in the long run.

But...I really cant feel the chemistry between Ji Pyeong and Dal-Mi though... and I am not convinced by Ji Pyeong’s feelings for her. I think he only liked her after seeing how SDM is falling for NDS, almost like out of a competitive spirit. And I think they match better as a mentor-mentee rship, or like a brother-sister rship (it doesn’t hurt that he’s kinda like a son to the grandma too lol).

so although JiPyeong is “better” for DalMi, i think it would be really awkward for them to date too... DoSan and DalMi on the other hand is really comfortable with one another, and being together has helped each other grow a lot in terms of their career and just as a person as a whole (Sandbox). So after the truth comes out in ep9, I hope DoSan and DalMi will still be in good terms. I don’t think they should continue to date though, esp not now when DoSan is lowkey toxic and treating DalMi like some manic pixie dream girl. maybe like stay as friends, actually get to know one another as THE REAL PERSON, and perhaps like a ROY ending where it’s left open-ended?"

I wrote this after watching ep 8 before we got to see how the truth unveiled and i still stand by it. firmly. I really think the biggest mistake of PHR wasn't the love triangle but rather butchering NDS' character. He had so much potential still, in ep 9, and she... ruined it all by changing up his character with so much inconsistencies. Still enjoyed the show tho :) just think that this would be a better outcome

is this considered spoiler? should i put a spoiler tag?

that's greaaaattt
i think it's advisable to be prepared for the love triangle and just go in knowing who SDM will end up with. (it's pretty obv tbh haha)

excited to know what your thoughts are on it after you finish it :) let me know when you finish writing a review for a show or smtg !

i actually really liked your comment haha thanks for sharing
though i think it might be a bit unfair to call it "toxic".
I think a better word to describe this comment section would be "imbalanced" and "heavily biased for a certain character". I think toxic is like Twitter and Reddit.
I'm personally a NJH fan and I can vouch for @KimSamSoom that we've had many respectful discussions on why i think NJH is a good actor. and she has been more than willing to hear me out

but i do see where you're coming from, it will be a lie to say that this comment section has 100% healthy and objective discussions. Almost 90% of the (active) commenters here are pro-HJP and are also mainly negative towards Start-Up. and because such a huge majority is sharing a similar opinion, many might feel like this popular opinion is so widely shared it's almost it's like gospel truth.
It's almost (*ALMOST*) like to hate NDS and to hate Start-Up is *the* way to talk in this comment section. It does, more or less, taint a typical viewer's experience. It does, more or less, discourage people to have unpopular opinions and have personal takes on things.
But i don't hold anything against them though- since they have the freedom of speech and most of the commenters here are quite objective and respectful.

And yeah, it's kinda sad how some of the commenters here are particularly critical on certain actors' acting skills. I think it's fine to criticize actors, but it can be kind of harsh when you are criticizing it solely based on the prejudice you have on the character. It's like saying Ben Affleck is a bad actor simply bcs you never really liked Batman. Well, it's hard to remain objective.

If you somehow do decide to watch Start-Up and would like more of an array of perspectives i will recommend this discussion page. https://kisskh.at/discussions/sandbox/56239-start-up-rants-discussions-facts-anything
the perspectives here was quite well-balanced. I personally camped here more when the show was airing because i didn't even know there was a comment section lol.

Or if you'd like, maybe you can read my review once you're done with the show. I genuinely tried my best to be objective in my review haha
https://kisskh.at/profile/Kristances/review/108417

NJH fans are trying to bump up the scores? reallyyyyy? how did you know that? Well, i know that I'm not hahah! I was pretty satisfied with the 7.9 score

I agree with you, and i think you're responding to the comment below on how she thinks this comment section is 'toxic' right?

Tbh I don't think this comment section is toxic but I do see where she is coming from though. I think a better word to describe this comment section would be "imbalanced" and "biased for a certain character". This comment section is very mature and healthy compared to other platforms like Twitter and Reddit, but it will be a lie to say that this comment section has 100% healthy and objective discussions. Almost 90% of the (active) commenters here are pro-HJP and are also mainly negative towards Start-Up. and because such a huge majority is sharing a similar opinion, many might feel like it's wrong to genuinely enjoy this show or genuinely like the less-popular characters. It's almost (*ALMOST*) like to hate NDS and to hate Start-Up is *the* way to talk in this comment section. It does, more or less, taint a typical viewer's experience. It does, more or less, discourage people to have unpopular opinions and have personal takes on things.

But i don't hold anything against them though- since they have the freedom of speech and most of the commenters here are quite objective and respectful. I just hope you see where the girl is coming from, though I may be assuming. This is just my personal thoughts of this comment section and this is coming from a NDS fan lol.

And yeah, you said it best. So long you justify your arguments and so long you do it respectfully, criticisms are GREAT. But I think another thing i might take issue with is how some of the commenters here are particularly critical on certain actors' acting skills. I think it's fine to criticize actors, but it can be kind of harsh when you are criticizing it solely based on the prejudice you have on the character. It's like saying Ben Affleck is a bad actor bcs you simply just have a presupposed prejudice against Batman. Just my 2 cents!

glad that you're enjoying start-up! these were pretty much my exact thoughts for start up as i was watching it and i still find myself enjoying the rest of the show despite being a little disappointed.

UWU i love red velvet so much too!!!

I've seen alot of comments saying they loved the OST, but I'm actually curious as to which song did you guys like? for me it was (ranked)

1. Love Letter - BOL4
I've not seen much hype for this song, but when i first heard it (in ep 4 i think) i IMMEDIATLY was looking for it. too bad they only released like 5 weeks later and i had to wait for 5 weeks. This song can easily pass as my jam and slide into my non-ost playlists. the bridge is so good!

2. Future - Red Velvet
Even though I'm a RV stan, I actually didn't like this song in the first listen. But damn, it grew on me. Wendy's post-bridge vocals and ad-libs was just so amazing. I love how this song makes you feel like you can kickass but also has a tinge of like melancholic nostalgia. (as opposed to Running - Gaho which is more like full on HAPPY)

3. Day & Night - Jung Seung Hwan
this song :( so so so sad. This song was one of the first few reasons that made me fell in love with Start-Up hard... I rmb this song was first played in the train scene when we got see NDS and SDM feeling a bit down. And i just felt like giving them a hug :( love this song so much or was it SDM's dad scenes? Either way, this song left a strong impression on me

4. My Love - Davichi
This song sounds like every other kdrama ost but somehow i can't quite find another ost that sound like this hahahah. It has all the "typical" elements of a ost (sang by Davichi lol, piano, breathy vocals in Chorus) but it still sounds really nice... idk how to explain it haha. Also the intro gives me so much chills, one my fav intro ever

5. Dream - Jamie
Not a very typical kdrama ost song and i love the indie movie vibes it gives haha. I also love how it's a feel-good song without being too upbeat. Also my first time hearing Jamie's vocals and it's amazing! Love the layered harmonies too

which are your favs and why? :p

oh yes the money scene XD i went to find it hahaha
such an iconic scene

"they have a message saying this drama includes PPL in different languages." a message? didn't see this though :0

wait what what Happened HAHHAHA

ahhhh hahaha thank you so much lol :'''')
i really like the HJP fans here too. Super nice and objective!!

yep yep. in all of the dramas where I saw him acting with noonas, it brought out a 'mature vibe' in him that was otherwise not seen in his other roles such as NDS. "Little brother" yep that's right. You will totally get what I mean by "mature vibe" if you watch School Nurse Files. He had amazing chemistry with Jung Yu Mi. JYM's character was like high energy and chaotic and NJH's calmness and "mature vibe" really complemented her character. But yeah, take all the time you need for that NJH cleanse haha, i understand.

That's so cool! I really love how you pick up on the technicalities.
and AWWWW thank you so much!! I sometimes feel really lonely being a NDS fan bcs almost everyone is a HJP fan, and most outspoken NDS fan are also lowkey delusional hahaha i really appreciate how objective you guys are here in MDL to hear out what i have to say :'''') and yes!! i think i will see you on another comment section soon if we indeed are able to move on from this comment section HAHAHHA. MDL is such a fun place and I'm glad i got to meet you guys!

YASSS. Nicely puttttt. this has got to be our best sumarry/review to Start-Up HAHA. THIS is really what made Start-Up so disappointing.

it's really annoying how kdramas spread this message of how "love solves all your problems in life" and how they objectify FLs into a flat "trophy"

the trouble with Start-Up was that they started with a trajectory that didn't feel like it will end up that way. SDM started strong and HJP & NDS had such great bromance, and also just like how we have analysed above, both male leads have rather refreshing character arcs and a unique story to tell- so when it finally ended in such a cliche ending, the backlash was almost unproportionate in comparison with other kdramas of similar cliche endings.

AHAHHAHAH okay.. yes... you can put it that way too.
It is indeed "first world problems" but :p it is problems more common to us laypeople.
I don't think it's that often for us to find someone who has a situation like HJP- no parents and found a good Samaritan like Haelmoni. Definitely HJP's struggles were the real tear-jerkers. But personally NDS' struggles was more relatable to me.

"I think people in general, especially in 2020, when everyone is having hardship, finds it hard to relate to someone who has been lucky and loved all his life, and still finds way to complain about the pressure."

I get how you can interpret it this way- but for me it was more like NDS telling us how even though we are very much privileged and live a very comfortable life (like how most can afford Netflix, afford good education, afford a good place to stay) still has valid struggles. You don't need to have some tragic backstory (like typical kdrama leads) in order to validate your feelings of pain.
But i think the annoying thing for you (and also me) was how they never dealt with those emotions (there was no resolution) and therefore it came off as whiny and ungrateful. There's a limit to this whole "first world problem" thing i guess.

I mean, in the end this is just a personal speculation haha, so take it with a pinch of salt- i think sometimes writers do questionable and controversial decisions to get a provocative reaction. Esp in kdrama world where they thrive in audience reactions (postive or negative). It's a risky strategy... but i guess it helps them pay the bills HAHA (again, just a personal opinion)

I really can't speak for Bride of Habaek too since I didn't watch it. But i saw clips of it and i cringed at NJH too. But i guess a general rule of thumb is that NJH only has chemistry with his noonas/actress older than him (Lee Sung Kyung, Han Ji Min, Jung Yu Mi). his other characters hv really bad chemistry haha. it's kinda sad that his bad roles are the ones with the more buzz though LOL.

HAHA... so true. I look forward to your replies alot ;) you write really well!! are you a copywriter/film critic or smtg? hahahaha

*ROY spoiler alert*
Ah, yeah the ending was controversial. But I personally found it a really refreshing take on kdrama rships since they acknowledge how their rship was immature and that they started it based on pure fluff. I liked how they didn't opt for the typical break-up-get-together again formula, and instead talked about how their rship just really can't work. Controversial...but pretty mature and relatable I'd say. Too many kdramas have unrealistic rosy endings (like start up xd)
idk much about PBG's acting skills... hmm...i've only watched three of his dramas. Nothing too captivating but definitely one of the better young korean actors. I only liked him in reply 1988 since that character was SOOOO cute and unique and it really fit PBG's "boy-next-door" kind of face.
But his character in ROY and Encounter wasn't exactly my fav and i felt like his branding of "sweet-soft-boy" is kinda overdone in these two dramas.

what happened in ep9? ahhh was it the ep where we got to see NDS' backstory? I personally loved it alot. Super intresting.
abit of an unpopular opinion but i think this was the closest thing we got to his character depth. We got to see how even though many people may consider him "lucky" and "fortunate" bcs of the "wind of fortune brought him fortune", it actually instead made him more miserable since he had to live up to unreasonable expectations as ppl put him on the pedestal. Super real and relatable <3

defo not overrated in that sense where it had a stellar cast, incredible visuals, big budgets but with little to no substance/plot (like The King? or erm DOTS? :0 oops)

It's still a good drama, but you should go in expecting that it will still end up like a typical kdrama even though it feels incredibly refreshing and unique in the first few episodes.

Maybe I'm biased since I'm a NJH fan but tbh i think in both cases it was not really NJH's fault and it's almost like the writer *purposely* made NJH's character unlikeable in order to create a buzz for the second lead (bcs 2LS drama usually get a lot of heated discussions i guess)

For School 2015- like @LBPG said, NJH had a really shallow character background, little to no room for him to express any form of emotions since he had zero character depth. Besides that, this was only NJH's *second* acting job and he got the lead role...so it was super fishy. So a lot of people already hated him from the get-go since he was this new rookie actor in comparison with the 2nd lead who was SungJae (who was already really established in the entertainment industry since he was an idol from BTOB). Many felt like he didn't deserve the lead spot and speculated that he bribed his way into that role since he was this random rookie actor. Plus the story was clearly written in favor for SungJae since he had wayyyyyyyYYYyYy more screentime and backstory with the FL than NJH. But I'll admit that NJH's acting was crazy bad here too- so perhaps he had a small share of responsibility in the hate he was getting.

For Start-Up, it was a bit different since NJH actually had more screentime than KSH and this time NJH is the one with a reputable footing in the industry in comparison with KSH. But you still can't deny that his character was, again, almost like it was purposely written by PHR to make us hate him. He had no backstory, he wasn't introduced first, had incredible flaws with no resolution (no character growth) and the worst of all as if to put a cherry on top of the cake- he gets the girl. As if it was some last-minute ditch effort to redeem his character arc, except that it made it worst bcs it completely unwrites his character off as some 2d kdrama cliche. I have ranted enough in how i think PHR ruined NDS' character haha, so i think you get what I mean.
I'm not denying that NJH still has a lot to learn. Also not denying the possibility of him simply being an inconsistent actor-- but seeing how great he is in his other roles, I can't help but feel like it's mostly the writer's fault in butchering his characters- but then again, I may be biased haha

Haha that's so cute! As frustrating as Start-Up was...i think the world-building was really good. I never felt bored and skipped scenes (which i often do in kdramas) A 6 seems pretty reasonable to me! Also, you can't deny Start-Up's power in uniting people together HAHA look at how this comment section is still active after 2 weeks since its finale.

hahah ROY was a really weird drama. It was poorly written and poorly executed but somehow there was this really humane quality of 'realness' and 'authenticity' in the characters that was maintained throughout despite the horrible screenplay. Mayhaps it was the actors' doing or the cinematography, i don't know haha. But i really think the ending is worth mentioning- one of the most unique endings in kdramas.

I think you have to be of Asian culture to relate to the societal pressures and expectations on marriage

A thing to be clarified: the writer is not in support of cheating. In fact, that’s why their romance dragged on for so long, because we were meant to see them grow in their feelings and then force themselves to repress their feelings because they do not want to cheat. I find this drama especially interesting bcs there were a lot of “morally ambiguous” waters being explored. (Like is having feelings for someone else but NOT acting on those feelings considered cheating?)
And it’s much much much more nuanced than what it seems. I found myself asking similar questions as yours on my first-watch as well, there’s no solid reasoning to why Ji-Ho is better than Gi-Seok.
But you got to look beyond the script, you got to see their dynamics as a whole. The point is not to show how Ji-Ho is “better suited” for Jeong Min. Gi-Seok obviously does not see her as a “woman” as much as he sees her as a source of security to simply “settle down with” bcs that’s what everyone expects of him (esp his dad). This was never explicitly stated out in any of their dialogues, but it can be deduced simply from how he treats her in general, also how they mentioned that he has always brought up the idea of “breaking-up” but never following through, and most importantly how Gi-Seok’s dad is Jeong Min’s dad’s boss. All these factors helps you see their unhealthy dynamics of a couple. They are only “practically” a couple for society’s sake and not one that is done out of love for one another.

Our instinct is then to find an inherent flaw in Gi-Seok in order to justify the female lead’s decision to break-up. We find it triggering when we do not see any big red flags from him. He doesn’t cheat (the biggest red flag), doesn’t abuse her (unlike Si-Hoon), doesn’t controls her (unlike her dad), doesn’t necessarily mistreats her like an absent boyfriend... but it still brings in to question: Is a relationship just about whether the person is morally good enough to be in a rship with?
The truth is, OSN shows the complexities of rships and it asks you to see beyond the script and I really think it did a great job in presenting actually human dilemmas and problems.

Ya SOOP has some amazing actors. I love Gong Yoo & Choi Woo Shik too.

Nope SNF does not have murder or horror. It has a quirky sense of thriller to it. Suspense but also a lot of in-between quirky humour. Jung Yu Mi swears a lot here, so it’s hilarious HAHAA (her character is hilarious I mean)

Yep, defo, NJH & Suzy has tons to learn. NJH has improved a lot, but sadly start-up wasn’t his best again. I see him improving on his other stuffs tho. And I agree with your opinions on LMH HAHAHA...until today I don’t get why he is one of the biggest Hallyu star.. he got the charisma and the height I guess. But his acting? Meh. His looks? Nothing too special either.

We defo have a lot of fav actors/actresses in common! I love Han Ji Min too, though i’ve only seen two of her works: Light in Your Eyes and One Spring Night

This was my first Jung Hae In drama and he really blew me away in this, he’s really a good actor. A good fit for these kind of roles at least.

Oh haha wow! I didn’t notice. What made you bump it up to 6 haha

Also how about you? What drama are you watching now?