MyLangyaList

Thanks, that makes sense. I suspect another part of it is the nature of Douban's 5 point scoring. The lack of scoring granularity at the top probably makes it noisier to differentiate between a very good and an exceptional show. For example, an 8.5 show and a 9.5 show may both get a similar amount of 5 stars. And the less exceptional, but more conventional show with wider appeal may actually win out because it will have fewer dislikes and low ratings. Conversely, if they are doing a simple average, a show's rating may be more determined by the % of low ratings. And both SaHG and TtW have very low % of 3 stars and below. I suppose if they were boosted, the simplest route would be to omit some low ratings from the calculation.

Overall, it does feel like the Douban ratings is noisier at the upper range compared to say IMDB. Since the Douban average seems lower, the 2+ stdev rating on Douban seems less predictive than 2+ stdev on IMDB.

Yeah the Gu Yu part was a bummer because so much of the character development and emotional core of the story was tied up with her. And to just expel her and not have her around for a bunch of episodes didn't make for good storytelling. It felt like episodes about Gu Yu's life when expelled got cut out.

And even though I liked it quite a bit, I would have expect a rating of around 8.5. To the Wonder's 8.9 also made no sense. Given how punishing the Douban ratings can be, it made me wonder if patriotic shows are rating boosted. But then again, Hollywood and Korean shows are also uniformly overrated on Douban.

My biggest issue is the middle where Gu Yu was expelled. Felt as if they cut out episodes and killed story's momentum. I thought it was good, but no where near the stratospheric rating.

There are like a dozen every year.

SoL: Northward, Wind Direction, Stand By Me (2023);

Romance-ish: Later I Laughed, Fake It Till You Make It, Remembrance of Things Past, Angels Fall Sometimes

Quirky / Supernatural: Link Click, I Am Nobody, Hikaru no Go

There are actually a lot of very realistic modern dramas. Though they are mostly SoL, crime, or suspense. In fact, the highest quality and rated shows are overwhelming in those categories. Though costume dramas have that unique dimension that other countries can rarely offer.

Variety show All-star Team... Assemble! I first saw MZY in the 2017 LoCH, and her visual was fly-kicking me through the screen then, though she can still blend in for modern dramas.

I was being harsh on Temu LLM, but perhaps also underestimated Deepseek as $150 is a lot of tokens to bang out a good script given Deepseek's computational efficiency.

The harshest dig was on the scriptwriters though, as $1000 DS tokens was taking their $4000 jobs. But yeah they should have more than a 4 page outline. I attribute that to user error.

Link Click

So many people complaining about the FL and script are simply not paying attention to the details and not seeing from the viewpoint of the characters. Right from the get-go, we have FL that's aware of the script. And everything she read in the script point to the ML being a bad guy and the cause of death and misery for her and her family.

The validity of the script is further reinforced for her as the ML tries to kill her, but couldn't and must protect her life at this point of the script. There's also key scenes and plotlines that she's unable to evade as attested by her attempts at the beginning and several key scenes happening despite her attempt to alter the plot.

So she goes from suspicious of the ML's intention (as warranted by the script and mechanism) to empathizing/liking the ML but still trying to extricate herself from him because she knows the tragedy that's 'fated' by the script.

While this script is by no means perfect. To compare it against the trash-tier plotline of Kunning Palace just shows how much intl viewers are missing from the shows.

See my discussion post for the viewing guides listed. Direct links are here:

https://thefangirlverdict.com/2021/05/26/open-thread-nirvana-in-fire-episodes-1-2-3/

https://dr-myri-blog.blogspot.com/2015/11/nirvana-in-fire-episode-1-recap.html

This is more for other people who might be curious, as you probably know this already:

Yeah it's an evolutionary process. And even from a policy perspective, it requires understanding the complexities of China's ever changing conditions, and different methods to 'make people whole', or at least moderate some of the inequalities. One thing that many ppl don't understand about China and other rapidly developing countries is that a lot of issues does get naturally solved with a bit of time. As migrants earn money through these grueling jobs, their incomes rise, they are less desperate and would demand higher wages and better conditions. So a lot of the working condition issues solved itself as companies improved in order to attract/retain workers.

Also in case it's not clear to viewers, all these companies are LOSING MONEY, LIKE CRAZY, EVERY DAY. Most startups, especially platform economy companies burn cash in the range of hundreds $M to $B a year. Many of these businesses are naturally winner(or 2)-take-all, due to economies of scale, user habit, and other reasons. The only reason these companies can get investors to keep pouring in the money while they lose $Ms daily is with the expectation that they can become a monopoly, or oligopoly in the field, and do it quickly. So that they can IPO, raise more money, drive out the competition, stabilize margins, and finally reach profitability in a few years. Look around you, how many Amazons, Netflixes, Ubers, Googles, are there ... they lost money for years in order to establish a dominant/monopolistic position.

The solution is to address the market power, profits, and monopolistic behavior of the companies once they become dominant, disincentivize short-term speculative pump/dump investing, zero-sum/negative-sum competition, long-term worker social safety net (for when/if delieverers do get laid off, or get sick, etc.), improve economic and living prospects for when the migrants do return home, or decide to grind it out in big cities.

Because much of the 'abuses' stem from structural issues/dynamics, most parties are just acting out of their rational self-interest, as everyone does. The solution of 'just be nicer' rarely works, and is often foolhardy and leads to disaster.

Maybe she had some concerns whether XWH also liked MSY in schools years, but I doubt it's at all on her mind at this point. It's just her condition is so alarming (brain tumor, FFS) that even sharing the news would turn everyone's world upside down. So she'd rather bear it alone, it's not like there's a lot others can do to cure her disease. You can call it noble idiocy, but it's that situation given the cultural context where her actions are understandable.

That's the difference between idol dramas and realistic proper dramas. Idol dramas are drenched with artificial sweeteners. I find some of the Chinese internet description of idol dramas to be amusing... industrial candy factory, throwing candies around, etc....

That's the reality of China though, and to a degree in other parts of the world. XWH is actually more moral than Xinchi, because he understands the harsh reality of either they succeed or get outcompeted by a leaner/meaner company and everyone, including the deliverers lose their jobs. Also the cultural context is different. For the migrant workers that make up the deliverers and almost all blue collar jobs in big cities, the only reason they are there far away from home is to for more income. Workers in China used to DEMAND overtime even when working 80+ hrs a week and only a few off days a month, because it means that much to them. They will be sacrificing so much, one way or another, and more relaxed conditions but sacrificing pay is a 1st world luxury they can't afford.

Is it fair? No. Does it point to societal issues that need to be addressed? Sure. But idealism without a viable solution is just sacrificing the lives and welfare of those affected. If they made this show with the company all lovey-dovey and a Hollywood plot where workers get great hours and benefits and company succeeds by being the most humane ... the first person to spit on the show would be the delivery drivers in China. Because it would be making a mockery of their reality. Rather, I'm glad the show is telling it like it is, while highlighting the struggles of migrants, who are so invisible on idol dramas.

For all the sacrifices and struggles they go through, at least they get their stories told. For the migrant laborers, for the college-educated migrants from all over the country, for the ordinary families going through the joys and upheavals of normal life and China's rapid transformation, this show tells their stories. And I hope we get a greater portion of shows like this. Because there are so many fascinating lifestories that haven't been well represented.

I interpreted conservative approach as still getting some form of medication, rather than some palliative end-of-life therapy, so I wasn't as bothered by it. Though they were not explicit about it and can be interpreted either way.

My biggest issue about the plot so far is actually how Ma Siyi just disappeared and they didn't try to track her down out of concern for her. As she doesn't have anyone to go to at that point and would certainly be throwing away potential studies and would need to struggle just to survive. Sure the bus departing scene may have been done for dramatic effect, but it would be easy for them to just wait for her at the next stop . For how much the neighbors take responsibility for the welfare of others, I'd have thought they would intervene, even at MSY's protestation.

Yes, the issues you mentioned is quite serious and pervasive. That said, I wouldn't read too much into Haikou as the only one w/ gf. It's mostly because he's the only one not pining for someone. XWH and Huazi is waiting for each other, plus he's a workaholic. Xinchi has been in and out of jail and struggling with his footing, and apparently has a thing for Huazi as well. Chen Rui still has his heart on Siyi, this might be the most questionable since it's been so many years, nobody knows where she is, and she's never indicated she liked him... but whatever. So that leaves Haikou, who is stable, chill, and not pining after anyone.

Also I don't think Haikou would be considered 'rich' by most Chinese standards, much less in Tier1 cities like Beijing.

I might be mistaken but I don't think she refused treatment. In ep 29, the doctor offered her two options: the aggressive surgical approach and conservative treatment approach. The surgery would be open skull, has risks, but would be more effective. She chose the conservative approach, which risks it getting worse (I'm assuming it's brain tumor based on the subtext).

Neglecting all treatment would be quite OOC, but choosing the conservative treatment is understandable. Since open skull surgery means she couldn't hide it from her family and friends, she'd need to shave her head, and it would be a much bigger wrench into her career and relationship. But then in ep30 you get the doctor's update that it's progressing and she should not delay surgery any longer.

I also think it makes sense she's hiding it from her family and especially XWH. Because she knows he would take the matter into his own hands and it would completely disrupt his work, etc. The same way he took the photographer matter into his own hands with questionable result. She didn't want it to affect others in significant ways.

Those are just for keeping plebs out of banquets and commoners from becoming an eyesore to people like the 2nd Prince ; )

Yeah, I think ppl who grew up with CDramas would naturally assume there would be some internal injuries even if the arrow didn't pierce the skin. The minor detail that would have made more sense is if he had a big bruise, the same way body armor can stop a bullet, but the transferred force will leave a bruise.

Also blood spitting has just become accepted for any semi-serious injuries. Supposedly it started based on Chinese lore. Then became omnipresent because it was an easy/cheap way to project injuries without the expensive makeup required to replicate wounds/gore that you have in Hollywood shows.

https://thefangirlverdict.com/2021/05/26/open-thread-nirvana-in-fire-episodes-1-2-3/

Thanks, heard a lot of good things about it, and it seems like my kind of drama. Definitely on my priority list, which unfortunately or fortunately is too long.