PeachBlossomGoddess

Wuyue did not strictly practice primogeniture (eldest son of the legitimate wife succeeds). Like many of the 5 Dynasties, in times of chaos, they favored stability over father-to-son inheritance. They were not unique in this matter - as we just saw Later Jin also passed the throne from emperor to nephew despite Shi Jingtang's desire to name his child son. Qian No 6 was only around 20 when he died - it is doubtful he left any sons who were not infants or toddlers.

The drama portrays him as sort of ailing or in poor health but that is not really what was recorded, which is why historians are suspicious. I guess it is something we will never know.

And happy to share - I think we are all trying to read and figure it out. No point all of us duplicating work. 😅

I think its doing fairly well with history buffs. But the confusing beginning and some of the more opaque political intrigue did lose some viewers, esp those who don't know the history. And even in China, not many are that familiar with this period.

Yes this is also consistent with what I saw. My issue with the drama short cut of the court intrigue is that after Shuiqiu essentially "saved" and elevated Hu Jinsi like that, it would be a complete and total betrayal for Hu to do what he did to him. It would also seem to be strange that Shuiqiu would turn around and essentially second guess himself and try to demote Hu after Hongzong's ascent. But we are not there yet in the drama so I am going to hold off judgement for now.

Maybe we are reading from different sources but from the accounts I found Shuiqiu is not even prominent during Hongzuo’s reign whereas Hu Jinsi was already well entrenched. But what I read wrt Hongzong’s time and his role is consistent with yours.

Yes I know how the later event will play out I am just saying Shuiqiu never helped elevate Hu Jinsi like it was portrayed which tbh makes Shuiqiu seem naive and makes him the architect of his own downfall and the emperor seem dumb. I am actually really not a fan of how they approached this though I understand the need to make it simpler. Maybe better spoiler tag this?

I tried to google it and officially it was for sudden illness but due to his age and its suddenness and the court intrigue at the time, it is considered suspicious by historians.

The Wind Blows From Longxi - 3 Kingdoms but less common Shu Han vs Cao Wei
Prince of Lan Ling / Lan Ling King - Northern and Southern Dynasties
The Legend of Xiao Chuo - Liao Dynasty
The Legend of Dugu -Northern Zhou, Sui, and Tang
The Legend of Hao Lan - Warring States
King's War / Chu Han Zhengxiong Chu-Han
The Prince of Han

Some of them are quite dated but its from my own list. I haven't gotten around to watching them all or just watched parts of them while my folks were watching. I really enjoyed Longxi and Prince of Lan Ling (although I never got round to finishing it). Xiao Chuo wasn't that inspiring. The Prince of Han is dated but excellent - it is the drama that made Huang Xiaoming famous. The rest my mom watched but I haven't.

I believe that part is made up. It was not Shuiqiu's decision to elevate Hu. It was just simplified like that.

The emperor and Shuiqiu's actions in this arc wrt Hu's elevation are a bit unbelievable bc it is drama contrived to simplify the real history. Essentially there were other powerful generals that were sidelined, leaving the playing field open for Hu. Shiuqiu had no role in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jinsi

Hahahah... If anything, Swords into Plowshare's message of its better to yield peacefully is far more directed at Taiwan than anything that came across in She and Her Girls.

China does have its fair share of very "Red" propaganda dramas - most of them are for TV broadcast and not on the platforms international viewers normally watch on and are usually not subbed into other languages. What you see on iQiyi, Youku and Tencent only contains mild propaganda. I don't have a problem with it, the CPC has done wonders for their country. They deserve to brag about it so I don't really mind watching them. Some of them like The Awakening Age are truly excellent. But some of them are really way to "red" for me - even some parts of highly acclaimed She and Her Girls was a bit too heavy handed propaganda IMO.

He is barely 20 years old. Why is he so sickly omg?

Qian Hongzuo looks unwell.

Hi, hope you enjoy this too. The Black Veil is not yet revealed as of S2.

I agree with Feng Dao's pragmatism the most and I agree with him - I mean all these peeps fighting for the throne have no real direct bloodline claim. Just work for the common people and support whoever is strong enough to hold on to power.

I am still watching this as a real historical bc I don't think the parts that were changed are substantively important. I am simply trying to point out that Shi Chonggui's ascent was sanctioned by the court, which is also in line with what happened. It is important bc this is the first time Lord Feng shows that he is indifferent to who the emperor is. He serves whoever can hold on to the throne and has no loyalty to any specific regime. It is consistently how his actions characterized him in history.

And you are right - history is indeed written by the victors. Many would argue the entire Shi/Later Jin dynasty was illegitimate bc Shi was just a military commander with no real claim to the throne other than the fact he traded a significant chunk of the country to a foreign power. It took subsequent rulers hundreds of years to get them back so the Shi reign overall is considered a stain on history. While it ended it tears, at least Shi Chonggui had the courage to try to re-acquire the lands his uncle so casually gave away. Its impossible to say what exactly would have happened but arguably had they not brought in the Khitans, some other military commander would have prevailed and those territories would have remained under their control.

This part of Zhao Kuangyin's story should be fictional - he never served in the Later Jin court - this has been pointed out by c-netizens already. He began his career working in Guo Wei's service (Later Han). The father and son dialogue was just to make sure the audience understood what was happening - that the court essentially declined to follow the emperor's final verbal edict. To turn it into an official imperial edict it needs the sanction of the court, which was not going to happen. I can't think of any successful regencies over child emperors in Chinese history - none of them last long or end well, something Lord Feng knew very well. The best he could do was make a deal with Prince Qi - you get the throne and the kid gets to live. The old man is one of history's great survivors - he would probably not have not gone on to serve 8 more rulers if he had gone along with Shi Jingtang's plans. Notice he also distances himself from Shi Chonggui. He already guessed he wouldn't last long.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Shi Chonggui's ascent was illegal or that Zhao Hongyin a mere imperial guard had any say in who sits on the throne. Shi Jingtang's final wish was unrealistic - his son was only 3 at the time. So Lord Feng who is the true king maker in history (serving something like 10 rulers over his lifetime) did not agree with this verbal edict. Note in the scene he never acquiesced. He simply took the 7th prince away and sent Shi Chonggui the indirect message he would support his ascent provided he let the young prince live. All the court officials were complicit in supporting his ascent including Academician Fan who was present when Shi Jingtang was dying yet turned the spoken edict into a written one that paved the way for Prince Qi to ascend. That is what Lord Feng also indirectly hinted to Fan he should do to avoid getting his entire family killed. In those times of chaos with enemies at every border, no court official was going to support a regent's rule over a 3 year old emperor. If Shi Jingtang were in his right mind, he would have known that. Lord Feng knew that, Fan knew that, Sang Weihan knew that and so did Zhao Hongyin. He was just an astute reader of the political winds and curried favor for his son by making sure Prince Qi and General Jing knew asap. The fact is whether they found out immediately or just a little bit later would not have changed the outcome at all.

There is just too much information and it was a super chaotic time in history. I find looking up some historical references/figures helps in following the narrative.😅