Platinum Fox

For me, the main female character didn't even need to be in the drama. Her character never made any sense to me.

Thank you for this comment about the age of consent law in China. I have been trying to explain to people that this is a social commentary on that law. They have been trying to change the age of consent law with no luck.

Thank you, I wondered what they were as well. The Chinese meaning of the tree goes so well with the drama as well. Another of this drama's many "hidden" easter eggs.

Loved this drama. The boys really cared about each other and even though they were "enemies". For me, this was a true BL drama.

Yes, we have had many wonderful and not so wonderful conversations and I have enjoyed every one of them. You are the one who helped solidify my thinking in this matter, plus reading the novel, The End of Eternity. Have you read The End of Eternity yet?

Actually, Sang Yan finds out that DJX went to her school at field day. The running gag of Sang Yan being her dad is again brought up. Yes, Sang Yan gave DJX permission to go the school, but Sang Yan had no idea that DJX even went. Remember the two kept it secret even from Sang Yan.

You're right he didn't push it when she was 17 because Sang Yan and Qian Fei shut DJX down in the car when DJX flirts with her as they are going to the mall, so this identity is blocked to him for the time being. However, that doesn't stop him from "courting" her: carrying her book bag, giving her a bicycle ride, giving her a piggy back ride, and getting her a bear from the claw machine.

Yes, DJX is a green flag male. I will agree with you there, but he is a dog for liking someone who is five years his junior when she is 17 (even though it is perfectly legal). Episode 23 when he mentions in the bar that he has liked her since she was 17, all the friends stop and see how Sang Yan responds to this. Sang Yan says it's okay as now she is older. The past is the past. The friends continue on with a conversation about Sang Yan. Please don't tell me what DJX said was a joke as DJX learned never to joke about things like this after talking with his female boss.

Again, I ask you to compare how Sang Yan treats her as to how DJX treats her when she is 17. I also ask that you compare common scenes b/n when she is 14 & 17 and then again at 17 & 19. Also, I can't stress enough read The End of Eternity.

Thanks once again for our discussion.

This movie reminded me a great deal of the Hollywood film Sleeping with the Enemy with Julia Roberts. I don't remember the ending of SwtE, but I thought the ending of this one was very realistic. For me, it seems like South Korea has no laws against domestic violence.

Um, the two other roommates are strangers, but DJX is not. Don't forget that he went to her school and literally said he was her brother. Sang Zhi and DJX have a bond that the other two roommates don't have with her. Even Sang Yan at this time doesn't know that DJX went to her school. Also during that scene, DJX is very attentive to her needs and feelings, much more than Sang Yan who just wanted it to be over as quickly as possible. Would a stranger offer to go and buy pads with the brother (a good friend would)? Would a stranger pay attention to what she had on, so that it could be replicated and help ease her embarrassment? Would a stranger give Sang Yan a well thought out excuse as to why she is late to the table? Would a stranger leave after completing the mission with the brother saying it would be too embarrassing for her to have him out there waiting? After the event while at the table, would a stranger go and get her a pitcher of warm water and cup to help with cramps? Would a stranger take out the beef in the beef dish, so that she could eat the beef dish. He doesn't know about her milk allergy, but he did hear that she is allergic to beef and lamb. Would a stranger pay attention to that? Qian Fei is a stranger to Sang Zhi, as he allowed all these things to happen and didn't even pay attention to her in the first place and has no clue that anything has happened.

DJX is no stranger to her, nor is he her brother. He made that quite clear to Sang Yan when he called Sang Yan about the issue. For DJX, this allows him to build a new identity with her, a boyfriend. However, he must do it in secret as Sang Yan has shut down this identity for him at this time and the unrequited love story and perfect brother identity begins, especially for her.

Like I have told many commenters. Compare and contrast how Sang Yan treats her and how DJX treats her when she is 17. Depending on how comfortable viewers are with the age of Sang Zhi they can view DJX as "courting" her or as the perfect brother like Sang Yan and Sang Zhi see him. Even the writer of The First Frost caught on that DJX was not thinking of her as a sister when she is 17. It is why he is called a dog at this time as he likes someone five years his junior. Does he do anything inappropriate, no, but he has taken notice of her.

The father had two legal wives and one mistress. The first wife bore a daughter. The second wife (stepmother to the sister) bore Hongrang and the mistress bore the one pretending to be Hongrang right now. I am only on episode 4 and that is my understanding so far. If some other twist happens later on, then I am unaware. This is why it would make it weird for half siblings to have a romance.

So in the future if there is a romance b/n the fake Hongrang and the sister, then the fake Hangrong can't be related by blood. In other words, the real Hongrang and Hongrang is still missing or dead. Since mistress' children can't inherit anything unless there is no other heir. The plot seems to be that the father is trying to take over the Min Guild using an adopted son Sim Mu Jin. With the return of "Hongrang" the legitimate heir and son of the wife, the wife can use him to take over the Min Guild as well. However, the mistress is using her child to pose as Hongrang to get him to be the legitimate heir.

Hope this helps.

I know right.

Thank you for your explanation. I understand what you are saying, and I would argue that for the second couple, but not the main couple. The only reason I say this is because the writer has figuratively stripped a straight guy of his masculinity in his sexuality and turned him into a woman (East Palace, West Palace). Even if WSW is comfortable with his "sexuality" of being a bottom, he knows that there is something different out there and wants to experience it. Even a joke has a grain of truth in it, so you know that WSW is still hoping that CC will let him be on top. By not allowing WSW to experience this kind of sexual intimacy, CC is controlling and dominating the sexual relationship. This is not an equal sexual relationship and sooner or later this power imbalance is going to affect other aspects of their relationship. It didn't for this drama, but it will. In the end, WSW is equated with being CC's wife, not a man socially accepted for his sexual preference (East Palace, West Palace). Everyone needs to feel and be equal in the bedroom. No one should over power anyone in regards to another person's sexuality. For the purposes of this drama, WSW was forced and groomed to be CC's submissive lover.

Flourished Peony and In the Name of Blossom explore the very themes that you write about that any gender is capable of running a flourishing business. In the beginning, the female protagonist is able to start a business with the help from a male, and he assists her if things go wrong. By the end, she has built an army, a business, and respect based on her own merits. This never happens in Revenge Love. WSW is never allowed to build a business through his own merits, it has all been handed to him through CC. No matter what happens in the relationship, even down to CC buying back WSW's family home, shows that CC is the provider of the family, not WSW. Which is why at the end, WSW is referred to as CC's wife. CC, nor CC's family corrects the nephew. This means that they accept WSW because he is a traditional submissive"woman". This is why I asked if you knew anything about Chinese culture gender roles and identity.

This is just my opinion and obviously I am in the minority, but that is okay as I can truly see where all of you are coming from, I just don't happen to agree because of the premise of the story.

Hope this helps. This drama, for me, just perpetuates the traditional Chinese roles of family with WSW playing the woman. If this was satire on this theme, then it did a poor job of challenging that theme as it just perpetuates the traditional roles of male and female. Which is typical danmei stories.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the second couple of the drama, but the first couple, for me, was very unrealistic and sent a message that I strongly disagree with. I'm glad other people enjoyed it.

Thank you for the discussion.

Thank you.

Thank you for this information. I will try it out when my work slows down. Happy drama watching.

Thank you for the information. Do you know if there will be a second season?

We need a season 2.

No, the evidence is literally in the drama itself. Again, until you have read The End of Eternity for yourself, you will not understand the whole drama. It is okay.

The fact that you need to call someone delusional when the poster presents something different than your own reality, says a great deal about you. You are basically telling that person that your way is the right and only way to interpret the work. Art is subjective.

Thank you for the discussion and happy drama watching.

I never really know how to define bromance. All I know is that there was no mention of bl, just hints at it. So it made it past the censors. I loved the drama.

Yeah, I really don't know what to call it. A bromance is as close as I could get. I figure bros can kiss each other on the cheek, right? Also, the drama expressed family, and I guess in some culture brothers kiss their brothers. My brothers never kissed each other, so I don't know how that works.

First, thank you so much for taking the time to write in such detail an explanation from the bl point of view. I apologize if I haven't expressed myself clearly. I am not new to bl, but I am not an expert on all things bl. So thank you for your patience and honesty. I welcome the discussion and insight.

Plus, did you watch this on Viki or some other platform? I watched it on KissKH, so I don't know how accurate the subtitles are. I have a subscription to Viki, but not Viki Plus. Viki subtitles are usually much better. So I am only basing my interpretation on the subtitles provided by Kiss KH. On Kiss KH the scene where JXS walks in on them on the hospital bed, WSW had just asked if he could be on top, and CC tells him flat out not going to happen. This is why WSW fights him off, but CC overpowers him and has sex with him anyway. We know this because WSW is walking funny in the morning when goes to visit JXS. After the experience WSW stays away from CC. I don't remember for how long. But in the meantime, there is a scene where CC asks his assistant to get him something to curb his libido. He realizes that he came on too strong and in order to keep his submissive happy he is going to have to be a lot gentler in the future. This is the beginning of him realizes that his submissives are people and have thoughts and feelings as well. Something he didn't consider with WS as WS was a submissive through and through.

In addition, yes, this drama's premise forces and grooms WSW to be the submissive if he wants to make this relationship work. So I have to disagree with you on that they have an equal relationship. Just because WSW runs the company and controls the purse strings doesn't equate to equality in the relationship. Remember everything he has is given to him by CC. And in all seriousness, if CC wanted more money than what WSW was giving him, he could have gotten it from somewhere else and wouldn't have needed to ask WSW. So the idea of WSW having power outside the home, is just an illusion. So there is definitely a power imbalance in that relationship.

The only time WSW truly has power is when CC runs the company, loses all their money, and goes to prison. What does CC do, breaks up with WSW. At this time there is no reason for WSW to stay with CC. He even states that the only reason he helps CC is because CC has been nice to him and he wants to repay that debt. It is why he sells the family home. Which CC buys back the minute he gets out of jail probably by selling his apartment. For me, that gift can be interpreted several ways: as a romantic gift, asking for forgiveness gift, or something to control WSW into staying with him. My guess is the latter as WSW has no reason to stay with him. Again, this creates an imbalance of power. Interpret this as you will.

But my original point was that WSW, for the purposes of this drama, was forced and then groomed to be a submissive in order to make this relationship work and that there is clearly an imbalance of power.

Again, thank you for your insight and the discussions. I have learned a great deal.

On the left hand side of your webpage it gives your gender as female. That is where I am getting this. If you are not, then you might want to change this as it is very confusing.

If WSW loves the sexual dynamics so much, why does he keep asking to be on top? For this drama, their dynamics works, but I have to ask how long will this dynamic last as WSW becomes more comfortable with his sexuality and knows that something different can happen in the bedroom. Also, you have forgotten that the whole premise of the drama forces WSW to become a submissive if he wants to keep his relationship with CC as CC, as everyone has explained, is 100% top. At first this submissive act is comedic as he tries to win CC's heart. However, once WSW has fallen for CC, the only way to keep him is to be a submissive. If you saw something different, I am glad.

I enjoyed the second couple more as their boundaries were clearly defined and neither one ran roughshod over the other's feelings.

Thank you for the discussion. Happy drama watching.

I have not read the novel, so my interpretation comes strictly from the drama itself. Start with the synopsis of the story. WSW tries to seduce CC (another man) because CC has stolen his girlfriend. In the process WSW "falls in love" with CC. At the beginning of the drama, WSW doesn't know that CC is gay because logic says if he knew all he has to do is just wait for the girl to find out that the man is gay and he will never have a sexual relationship with her (and we know she wants one). A break up is sure to follow pretty quickly. So essentially you have two straight people (one guy, one girl) trying to seduce a gay guy. Now, it becomes what will he have do in order to seduce him?

During the first half of the drama WSW has to play the role of the submissive because he is trying to win CC's heart. CC is 100% dominant. WSW is subject to butt slaps and other sexual advances that he successfully avoids. All of this is helped along by his gay, submissive doctor friend who advises him on all things gay. All the "sexual" scenes during this time are done for comedic effect, but it allows the audience time to get used to WSW being the submissive in the relationship. The audience, as well as WSW, are being programmed to view him as the submissive.

Now, once they start dating and it comes to their first love making session, coming from the stand point of a straight guy he would be the one on top and even asks CC to be on top. To which CC roughly responds hell no and forces him to be the submissive. We know this because the next day we all laugh when WSW is walking funny and we know why. His friend, however, is greatly concerned and asks him if he bled because he understands what it means to be the submissive. After the experience, WSW avoids CC for at least a week as he ponders whether or not he really wants to be in this relationship. He talks this over with his doctor friend who is a submissive. So you have a submissive teaching a straight guy how to be submissive. After this you never see WSW on top. There is one scene where he is giving CC a back massage, but it never turns into sex. Again, leaving the impression that WSW is just there for CC's pleasure.

The scene you mentioned could also be interpreted another way. WSW could have interpreted that as I finally get to be on top and grabs the cigarette to help him along. However, the interpretation of that scene is never shown. Again, as the audience we were programmed from the beginning to see WSW as the submissive, and we think that he is now enjoying his role as a submissive. When in reality, he is hoping that CC has changed his mind.

Because you never see WSW fully on top, the drama has groomed and forced WSW to be the submissive to complete the love story. It is helped along by CC who shuts him down every time WSW even mentions being on top and by the end when WSW completes his transformation by being called a wife by Dou Dou and CC asks him to call him hubby. In Chinese culture he has completely become the submissive as the wife is suppose to be submissive to her husband.

Also, and not to be crude, but think about what it actually means for two men to have sex. It is the only pairing where a person has a choice of whether they want to be penetrated using a sexual organ or do the penetration with a sexual organ. So I understand the 100% of both ways. If a man can find a partner who is happy with that and make him feel secure in the relationship, then go for it. However, this is not the case with CC and WSW. I give there relationship another year, and I'm betting WSW would be out the door.

Finally, one could argue that WSW was naturally a submissive as he allowed his girlfriend to determine everything in the relationship, but we see that it is different with CC.

Again, thank you for the discussion and insight.