Platinum Fox

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I understand where you are coming from and you have a clear sense of what you consider right and wrong. I agree with you on some points and disagree with you on others.

First, I disagree that Suho and Si Eun were friends before BS entered the picture. The two had very different lives. Suho was involved in fighting; Si Eun wasn't. Suho had two jobs and was tired all time and slept in school. Si Eun studied all the time and even went to academies after school. When would the two of them had time to become friends. Their lives only intersected once BS came into the picture and only after Baek Seom was being beaten by the main bully.

Secondly, you're right a lot of kids are abused by their parents and are bullied at school and don't turn out that way. However, most abused kids are abused by their parents for senseless reasons. Baek Seom's father did it for a reason. He was trying to toughen up his kid and make him fight back. In a sense the father was actually grooming his kid to be a bully rather than just stand up for himself and fight back. When BS acts the way his father has taught him, the father ships him overseas because BS went too far. I am not saying that Baek Seom should not be held accountable for what he did. He should. I am saying that Baek Seom had many reasons to do what he did. His environment and the educational belief system (solve the problem by transferring the student), doesn't solve anything. You have to look at the root of the problem not just the symptoms.

Third, you're also right. The group he joins has the very people who bullied him. However, he is a part of the group. He is the weakest member of that group until he comes up with the plan to get rid of Suho, then he becomes the strongest member. Remember no other person in the group wants to go up against Suho, so how can Baek Seom become the leader of the group? Solve the problem, take out Suho. His money bought him power and influence within that group. Baek Seom just made it happen with his wealth. Baek Seom saw his chance to gain his father's respect and be a leader. However, he crossed a line. Would you rather be a leader or a minion? His dad wanted him to be a leader. Well he was, he just went too far.

These are just my thoughts. People want a villain. People want someone to blame. My question has always been where are the teachers and parents while this is happening. It was spelled out in this drama. The teachers just want to keep the peace and pass the student on to the next school. The parents want to keep their kids' reputation clean. The students just feel like it is a part of growing up. The proof is when Si Eun goes to the next school; the cycle continues. When will stop? For me, that is what makes this whole drama very sad as none of them are willing to look at themselves to see if they are the problem. Si Eun is the shining example in this drama. He does ask himself, how can I make this change? First, it is to forgive Baek Seom.

Thank you for your thoughts and discussion. Happy drama watching.

teddy, in these dramas I have often wondered where are the parents and teachers. How can these students get away with beating up on these people so much?

The answer was given to me when the main male bully is allowed to transfer to another school despite the fact that he assaulted someone with drugs and the evidence was clear as day. The teacher said, "I think it best he transfer to another school." The parent agrees. This tells me that the teachers and parents are complacent to this type of behavior. It is just a part of growing up which is really sad. Si Eun's father also makes a very good statement, "I thought raising a kid would be easy. I thought kids raised themselves." What is really telling is Baek Seom's father's belief system. If you don't stand up for yourself and fight back, I will beat you (literally) until you do. " What message is that sending to your child. Baek Seom's father also keeps sending the message, if you don't do this don't expect me to love you or acknowledge you as my son. Baek Seom says to his dad, "I never asked you to adopt me."

There is also the power issue going on in this drama. The people in power do not need to take responsibility for their actions. They are above the law. Let's just transfer them to another school (both the main male bully and Baek Seom). The people in power also happen to have money. Si Eun is also transferred to another school, but it is not as nice as the one he was at. Again, the perpetrators get away while the victim has to suck it up.

So how much is he responsible for the end? He is 100% responsible. He has the power of free will or choice. However, I argue that he is the scapegoat (or groomed) for what is wrong with the environment that was created around his character. From the very beginning Baek Seom was a weak character who was bullied and punished abusively by his dad. He saw a chance to earn his father's respect and make a name for himself among his rich peers (who wanted revenge on Suho as much as Baek Seom). At the end, Suho is also made into a scapegoat. The rich group blame him for all their problems. So why not beat him up if someone else can make this happen. This is the way of the rich. They can't do it themselves, they get someone else to do it.

In the end, did the bullying stop at just that school. No, Si Eun goes to another school and guess what, it begins all over again. The environment and belief system have to change in order for the consequences to change.

Thank you for the discussion.

Actually, they have already put it together for us, we just have to put it altogether. The only thing we don't know is why the grandpa is full of rage against the king.

That is a possibility, but I think it is more than that. The 8ft creature is just a pawn in the queen dowager and grandpa's game. Maybe this is why it is sad? It is doing things it doesn't want to do.

Not sure who you are referring to as the black finger man.

Yes, you are right we have to give credit to the older historical dramas as well. There seems to be a resurgence in defining what it means to be a strong, noble, independent woman. No longer are dramas about bickering women, but women who actually help each other. You still have the stereotypical villain (male and female), who causes all the drama. But women are not portrayed as evil witches with a b).

I agree with you, the heroine in The Double is indeed evil. For me, the ending was perfect (without the bonus five minutes). Also, I felt The Double was a dark parody on popular historical dramas, in particular LLtG.

Finally, a commenter who was watching LLtG wrote that the screenwriter was pulling The Glory move when it came to the mother not being very nice to her daughter. I wrote the commenter and said, LLtG came out before The Glory, so technically The Glory pulled a LLtG move.

For me, The Double and The Glory are interpretations of LLtG. jmo Whether one is better or not is up to the viewer.

You also have to ask why does Gang Cheol want Yeo Ri to be his vessel. There are many more shamans out there who could help him ascend (the monk). it is because she looks at people and spirits in a different way. She doesn't judge their actions. She doesn't categorize people as good or bad. She just wants to help them be able to cross over. She is innocent and pure. So in a sense she is blind to evil because essentially, she believes people aren't evil, but some event(s) in their lives make them do evil things. Yeo Ri only thinks Gang Cheol is evil because her grandmother says he is evil, and YR should stay away from him at all cost (also she is only 13 and not ready for the final battle). Because of this everything that Gang Cheol does appears evil. It is only by her really and truly getting to know him, that she finds out that he has been her guardian throughout her life. Do you know Anne Frank. Her diary pretty much says the same thing. She writes, "I still believe people are basically good at heart." Yeo Ri believes people are basically good at heart.

The celestial general/ Colossal Shadow is much like Gang Cheol. YR's first reaction is to get rid of it as it is a powerful spirit and appears to want to harm other people. It is a strong spirit, yet it didn't kill the crown prince immediately. Why, because the crown prince hasn't done anything wrong. It doesn't kill the king immediately because the king must be innocent as well. The only person the Colossal Shadow kills immediately is the queen dowager's son. Why, because he is evil. Once Yeo Ri can get it out of her head that the 8ft creature is not as evil as everyone thinks it is, she will be able to send it to the afterlife. The 8ft creature is just a pawn in the grandfather's and queen dowager's game.

The blind shaman is also just a pawn in the grandfather's and queen dowager's game. He has a second chance, what will he do with this chance? It appears that he will continue to do evil things, so evil things will come to him.

Remember the whole drama is based on if your family seeks to do good things your life will be filled with good things. If you seek to do evil things, your life will be filled with misery and suffering. Also, what happens in the past carries over to the next generation. jmo

That is a very good question like mjcsfla1 said.

It all goes back to the opening scene. Why were the people in that village being massacred and who did the person in red with silver beads save? The child who was saved was the one who saw Gang Cheol ascend.

The 8 ft creature looks like the guy who saves the child. He is dressed in clothes that have those silver beads on it. He must have been a general as they keep calling him the celestial general. The crown prince says the 8ft creature is sad. We don't know why it is sad.

Yes, this is where the story has gone weak. However, she has been preoccupied with her feelings towards Gang Cheol. Also, she may not even remember running into the blind shaman and hasn't put the two things together yet. Remember she is just now starting to use her shaman powers and think like a shaman.

Also, the story would be over in the next couple of episodes instead of 16. Have to draw it out. Give the blind shaman a sense of invincibility, so he will slip up. Even the audience knows who the real villain is, the characters don't. The king was about to tell us what happened 13 years ago and why he became king instead the queen dowager's kid.

Rose, there are a number of reasons why Beok Seom (BS) did what he did to Suho. First Suho took away his first and only friend. BS was bullied at his old school. Si Eun was getting bullied at his school. They become friends because they have something in common, being bullied. Now along comes someone who is tough, has no money, and doesn't get bullied. He protects the two, but BS' friend starts to admire this person. Being the insecure person that he is, BS becomes jealous. The final straw is when the girl comes into the picture (through Si Eun). Now BS has to compete against two people for Si Eun's attention. He felt discarded like a piece of tissue paper. People who have been beaten all their lives try to hang on to what they have. Even though it isn't true, BS felt he was losing the one person who had made him feel like an actual human being. Flourished Peony, a Chinese drama, plays this concept out really well, except with women.

Also, his entire life his father has told him to strike back at the people who bully him. The father even gives him an opportunity to do this, but BS doesn't do it because he really wasn't being bullied by that person. I am talking about the guy the three of them take down. He does a good deed, but his dad still isn't happy with him and beats him some more. When BS finally has a chance to strike back at the people who bullied him at his other school, SH stops him. SH makes the choice for him just like his dad makes all of his choices for him.

The final straw is SH does bully BS and says he is pathetic and a loser when he joins the other side. This is the final straw because his father does the same thing. SuHo makes him feel worthless, just like his father makes him worthless. Since he can't beat up his father, BS takes out all his frustrations on the one person who resembles his father, Suho.

Now is this justified? Depends on whose admiration you are trying to seek. When BS finally does strike back, shouldn't his dad be proud of him? He is doing the very thing his father has taught him through words and actions. However, the consequences are BS crosses a line, but who could blame him after years of abuse from being bullied at school, being abused by his father, and being taught that I will only be proud of and love you when you fight back.

We really don't know if Beom Seok would take responsibility for his actions because again, his father, who has power and influence, steps in and makes the decision to send him overseas. When will all this stop? When the people who perpetrated it take responsibility for their actions. Something the rich and powerful in these dramas don't do.

Beok Seom is a tragic figure. He shouldn't be hated or pitied. He should be looked upon as the consequences or product of his environment. Change the belief system and the environment and the consequences will change. jmo

I have to disagree with you. You need to give credit to Love Like the Galaxy (2022). Everything from the abused child, the loveless mother, to getting revenge on the "father" is all from LLtG. Also, the ending scene where all the main characters are lined up comes from LLtG as well. Many of the themes found in this drama are also in LLtG. The main one being women earning their independence from men.

The Double did the same thing. It copied straight from LLtG. One commenter on The Double even went as far as asking if The Double was a remake of LLtG. So you know that LLtG had a strong influence on it. jmo

Yes, but does that mean Yun Gap has yet to betray her or has he already betrayed her!

You weren't the only one who noticed this. Several of us have and want to know the answer as well. The funny thing about it is that everyone in the drama considers her a guy.

For this to happen Yoon Gap would have to return to his own body and Kang Cheol would either be a spirit or dragon depending on if the heavens deem him worthy of ascension.

But let's do something really funny and have Kang Cheol stay in Yoon Gap's body, put Yoon Gap's body in the little girl, and Yeo Ri is herself. Or have Yoon Gap return to his body and Kang Cheol becomes the little girl.

Yes, the chemistry between the leads is natural and amazing. By the end, it will make you very angry.

Yes, because Si Eun felt guilty for not trying to stop or even help Baek Seom when he switched over to the other party. A party that was made up of rich boys. Remember Baek Seom is part of the powerful elite as his dad is a congressman. However, he is the lowest in status within that group (he's weak). Money buys him power and control over people. He could pay someone to beat up Su Ho instead of doing it himself (which he couldn't because he is too weak). Baek Seom's dad was trying to "toughen" him up when Baek Seom didn't take revenge for himself. In the second season Baek Seom haunts Si Eun because Si Eun could take the easy way out and go study overseas (mom was very willing to do this). However, Si Eun knew he couldn't because that would make him just like the rich and powerful who could just run away from their problems instead of solving/facing them. Si Eun is willing to take responsibility for his actions whereas the rich and powerful are not. Also, why not fight for what is rightfully yours?

I live in the United States and season 2 reminded me a great deal of a novel called The Outsiders by S. E. Hinton. It was made into a movie starry many Hollywood heartthrobs of the time. It is a story of two gangs (one rich and the other poor) fighting for control over a park in the center of town. It ends with a huge rumble. The bad thing about season 2 is it left it open for a season 3. Baek Jin may be dead, but there will always be someone else to take his place (Seongji). The boys may have won battle, but they haven't won the war. They will need to take down the Union at its source. The schools were not the source they were branches off the bigger picture.

Hope this helps. I enjoyed both seasons (took me longer to watch season 2 than 1, but still a good watch. Happy drama watching.

Yes, that would have made you feel better, but in the long run what would that have solved? Si Eun understood why Baek Seom did what he did and forgave him. Baek Seom was even remorseful about what he had done. All his anger was displaced on the wrong person. Baek Seom couldn't beat up his father and had no power over his father. However, he could pay his peers who also had beefs with Su Ho. It was something that he was in control over.

At the end of the day, it is all about control. You only have control over you and how you respond to things. That's what Si Eun realizes. Si Eun realized he could put a stop to it by not responding in a violent way. jmo

Rei, the target audience is everyone. Let me explain. This drama is not just a fluffy, simple love story. It is a social commentary on the age of consent law in China which is 14. This means that 14 year olds are mature enough (despite their height) to consent to sex with a 19, 22, or even a 50 year old. People in China are trying to get the law changed to at least 16. Her childish voice throughout the drama is there for a reason. The same with the brother/sister dynamic between the two (this is in the source material, but the screenwriter changes how it is used).

Your biggest complaint of the drama is the transition of when they move from the dynamic of brother/sister to lovers. Now, think back to everything that DJX did for Sang Zhi when she was 17. What does DJX do differently at that time as opposed to what he does when they start dating? He has to make sure that she understands that he likes differently now. All perceptions need to change, the characters' as well as the audiences. Perception plays a key role in this drama. Sang Zhi is strong and independent while at work, but when she is with him she still sees herself as his little sister. Of course she is going to act differently around him until she too can change her perception of herself with him.

It is interesting that you say he never changes his perception of her even after they start dating. Are you saying he loved her from the time they first met and his actions are more of a boyfriend when she is 17?

It has taken me two years to fully understand what is happening in this drama. I read 8 chapters of the source material, the book The End of Eternity, and talked it out with other posters to finally reach the conclusions that I did. I am not writing this after just watching the drama.

Thank you, I stand corrected. It has been a while since I watched it. I watched the ending again.

Eeevo, corrected me. I watched the ending again. He goes back to the place where he committed suicide. His mother is calling him. Now whether he has his memories we don't know.

Personally, I think, Death gave him a reason to live by having him go through each of those lives. The only person he doesn't jump into is his girlfriend. How come? Remember he commits suicide because he feels worthless and has no purpose in life. By going through what he did, he now has a reason to live. To save all the innocent people who died because of the serial killer and the CEO. What a mission!