Platinum Fox

You are so funny. A discussion forum is all about learning new things and looking at things in different ways. Learning should extend beyond the classroom. I went through a whole process to reach the conclusion that I did. Otherwise I would have rated this drama a one and been done as it did not add anything new to the genre. But afterwards I had many questions. Why did Sang Zhi speak and act like a child throughout most of the drama? Why does DJX keep saying to Sang Yan, "I am not her brother"? Why does DJX look so happy when he meets her again when she is 17 and angry when they meet up again when she is 18? Why does he pose as her brother in the first place? Why is Zhao Lu Si playing this role? Why is she not playing the role of the 14 year old? She has done before. To answer these questions, I read The End of Eternity, discussed on this forum with other posters, and compared the novel Hidden Love with the drama. I found my answers.

You're right, DJX does help the family because of what they did for him. He buys a light bulb, takes out the garbage, helps put up decorations, tutors Sang Zhi, etc. These are all things he can do without costing him money. But the biggest thing is why does he pose as her brother to visit the school? There is nothing in it for him. Yes, he can repay the kindness that they have shown to him, but then why keep it hidden from the brother and the parents? Just because she requests it? I discussed this scene with a poster at length. It seems to be a cultural thing. In my country you would never get away with that.

You may not have this much curiosity or want to dig beneath the surface, that's okay. I am glad that you enjoyed the drama.

Again, thank you for the discussion, and even though I don't agree with it, your insight.

Yes, the plot and the scenes may come from the novel Hidden Love, but the structure of the drama comes from the novel The End of Eternity (TEE), the book shown five times within the first three episodes. But I want to understand what you are saying, are you saying that because a majority of the people who watched the drama and interpreted DJX's behavior as that of a brother are the only ones who are right? In other words, DJX's character from when Sang Zhi is 14 to when he professes his love for her, was only acting as a brother to her? I have to disagree with you on this.

Let's compare DJX and the brother in just one scene. When the two "brothers" go buy clothes for her because she got her period, the biological brother picks up a light colored skirt. DJX says something to the effect, no she was wearing a dark colored skirt and we don't want Qian Fei to see this difference. The brother replies, "They are all the same," meaning it doesn't matter it is just clothes. At this moment we can see that the brother has not taken into account how his sister looks or her feelings. Most brothers don't as they are too embarrassed to talk about periods with their sisters. DJX, on the other hand, is the perfect "brother" he considers her feelings and her appearance in this matter. However, before this happened, when he calls Sang Yan about the issue, Sang Yan says, "Can't you just buy it?" DJX replies, "I am not her brother," meaning he is looking at her in whole different way. It is why he leaves before she comes out. It is why he gets her warm water and picks the beef out the meat dish. Does her brother do this for her? No, he is too wrapped up in his conversation. Only a "boyfriend" pays attention to how a girl looks and feels and does little considerate things. Perception is what drives this drama. It is what creates the unrequited love story for both of them for when she is 17-19. So either perception is okay. Thus, his confession at the bar is not a joke. No matter what perception you see their relationship through, he did like her when she was 17. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done all the things he does for her.

In addition, in today's world our perceptions of childhood have changed, so even those who see DJX as a pervert, no matter how considerate he is, believe that the age difference is too much, especially when she is 17 and he is 22. That's okay. As according to the laws that pertain to this situation, DJX is a full blown adult, Sang Zhi, on the other hand, is still a child, but she has the right to consent to a sexual relationship. This is why everyone was so concerned when she talks about her older online boyfriend. They don't want her being taken advantage of. We know that she is talking about DJX. DJX is a good guy. He does not take advantage of her in any way at any age.

Finally, if this drama had been set in the 1800s, then we wouldn't have a problem with DJX courting Sang Zhi when she is 14 or even 17. In fact, Zhao Lu Si did a historical drama with much the same romance plot in A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial College. Sang Qi (the name of her character), meets the man she will marry (her brother's friend) when she is roughly 14/15 and he is roughly 21-24. There was romantic music playing (a song that Zhao Lu Si sang). The audience had no problem with this drama. Why? Because the expectation of women to marry was between 15 and 24. After that, they were considered old maids. Today, we consider childhood to be from birth to 18 or 20 (South Korea's age of consent). The marriageable age, however, in China is 20 for females and 22 for males. Yet, the age of consent is 14. So technically, Sang Zhi is still a child (socially speaking) throughout most of the drama, but she is old enough to make choices about sex.

Again, thank you for the discussion. I understand where you are coming from, I just disagree with you. The novel The End of Eternity explains a great deal about what is going on in the drama and why it is structured the way it is.

I have to disagree. DJX (even if it is about him) learned from the hospital incident that you don't joke about things like that. Look at how readily the friends accept this fact when they find out the brother is okay with the relationship. They move on to a different topic.

As for Claudia, she is not wrong in her perception. In fact, the drama is made for this type of discussion. The age of consent is 14 in China. Had DJX courted her then, we would have said he was a pervert. Claudia is just expressing that even at 17 she thinks that DJX is a pervert. But at 17 biologically she is a woman ready to have children. Emotionally though, she still talks and acts like a little kid. DJX is a full blown adult, so yes it would be embarrassing to say, "I like this girl who is 17." But the drama is asking at what age can women begin their own sexual journey? Do they have to wait until they are married at 20 or can it be sooner? Should they only be able to explore their sexuality with people their own age or can they be five years older?

The age of consent law is what is being looked at here. This drama says wait until you are more mature. DJX is a green flag guy. He never once does anything to hurt Sang Zhi physically or emotionally. He waits and expresses his love for her when he feels she will accept him as something other than a brother, but he does fall in love with her before the first snow fall.

Thanks for the discussion. I love this drama and rated it 10 because so much can be discussed about it.

Not quite sure what you are saying and how it relates to the second season, but yes, mom doesn't know how to deal with her because CSS is like her mom, very stubborn, but mom knows she (both herself and CSS) wants to make a contribution to the world. I am assuming that is why mom became a general in her own right. Notice at the end that Shao Shang starts dressing just like her mother, not the empress, her mother. Also, that she starts to team up with HBY to finally rid the empire of the rebels. HBY and CSS finish together what CSS' parents started together.

Yes, in episode 23 he admits that he liked her when she was 17, but was too embarrassed to say anything. That's why all those scenes: the piggy back ride, the essay, the milk bottle, the museum, the claw machine, and bike ride can all be interpreted two ways as a brother or as a boyfriend. The choice is yours.

I recommend Story of Yan Xi Palace. It is based on real historical characters. The same actress who plays XFF is the main female lead in Yan Xi Palace.

In this season they focus on Niao Niao's experiences in the palace which mirrors exactly what happened to LBY when he came to the palace. She starts her journey to understand who LBY is and falls in love with him. Yes, she does become disappointed with ML, but for good reason. I don't want to spoil it too much for you. We also start to understand why General Ling wants revenge so badly for his family.

You're right. He does not appear at any time during the story and has no bearing on the plot. Just like we never see first or second sisters.

You're right. An interpretation with comedy is not necessarily a parody, but when direct scenes from the drama are taken and turned into comedy, this makes it a parody. Remember a parody is a humorous or mocking imitation of something, using the same form as the original. During this entire drama, the writers are humorously mocking all the themes and tropes of historical fiction. They use different types of comedic elements to do it. They particularly mock LLtG.

Again, I understand the difference between comic effect and comic relief. This drama is a mixture of parody with dark comedy. The Chinese people did not find this drama as wonderful as all of you. Even though I enjoyed the literal interpretation of Love Like the Galaxy for the love story arc, the Princess Wan Ning story was too heart breaking, but even she was a comedic character.

Thank you for the discussion. I understand what all you are saying, I just don't agree. I am glad that you enjoyed the drama. I enjoyed certain elements of it, the parody on LLtG being one of them.

There are more dramas that the drama is poking fun at. It seems to go by a certain character's story arc. Shen Yu Rong's story arc is based on the second male lead in A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial College. There are also several scenes taken from the above drama as well when we are first shown Duke Su's face (he raises his umbrella slowly to meet the people in the shed) and where Duke Su's bodyguard dives into the room through the window. Both male leads (who both of course love our female lead) slowly raise their umbrella as they meet the love of their life. The main male leads "servant" dives into a room repeatedly through a window.

The Story of Ming Lan is also parodied with squabbling maids and a gullible father. None of these scenes are in the novel.

You wrote to me, but I am unable to find your post, so I thought I would write to you under here.

Defying Destiny, you are too funny. You have given the example that Scary Movie is a parody of Scream and I Know What You Did Last Summer. How do they this? They take the story line and turn it into comedy.

The writers of The Double have done the same thing to LLtG and other historical fiction dramas. Whether you want to see it or not, this drama is comedic on the surface with a very dark undertone which reflects the mood of most historical fiction cdramas. They have taken the tropes of how both sexes treated women of all ranks. It all started when our heroine (an educated, talented, married, 19-year-old girl "dies" and begins to portray an innocent, uneducated, not so talented dead 15 year old girl in a nunnery filled with kindness and virtue. Irony anyone.

A parody can poke fun at an individual work or a whole genre. This is what The Double is doing. You can agree or disagree with me, but others are seeing it as well.

Had a hard time finding this post to respond and was busy. My mistake I meant the Scary Movie franchise which is parodying the horror genre of Scream and others. Sorry to say that this story does the same thing with the historical fiction tropes. The writers have intentionally made this story lighthearted in appearance, but in reality it is portraying the atrocities women did to each other to gain power and the reasons they did it. For me, let's use DefyingDestiny's definition of satire "comedic elements that clash with the main theme of a genre". Historical fiction works most often are dark and not comedic in any way. This story has used many comedic elements to lighten the dark undertone of the drama and novel. Parodying LLtG and other dramas is just part of this comedic element. So maybe this is satire instead, but I think it is makjang or dark comedy.

I am glad that you enjoyed it and thank you for the discussion.

A parody is an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. Watch Scary Movie 1-4. They are parodies on the horror genre. For shorter parodies watch Saturday Night Live sketches. They do many fake commercials. Spoofing is a way to create comic effect.

You're right LLtG is not a parody. It was not meant to be. The reason comedy is used in it is for comic relief. This drama, on the other hand, is comedic throughout it's entire drama. It is meant to be funny, Now, you could call it a makjang because of all the topics discussed in it, but because they have spoofed (I will use your word) scenes of other dramas in it, it now becomes a parody because they have done it for comic effect.

Please read what I wrote to DefyingDestiny two posts down.

Parodying someone's work doesn't necessarily have to degrade the work of either work, it can actually enhance them both if done well.

You're right not every lighthearted drama is a parody, and it's okay if you don't see this as a parody. Many people don't. I didn't at first, but the more I watched and looked at what was going on, I realized that the screenwriters were poking fun at the tropes of historical fiction dramas, especially LLtG. At first, I thought it was using the comedy element makjang as many of the topics found in a makjang are present in The Double. In addition, I read the novel that The Double is based on. It is extremely dark and serious. There is very little humor in it unlike The Double. I also found that none of the scenes between XFF and Duke Su from the nunnery to the exam banquet are in there. Even how XFF becomes Jiang Li is different from the novel. A parody is an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. How does this work in The Double? Let's explore this concept.

First, in the novel Marriage of Di Daughter Jiang Li is sent to the nunnery for 8 years and after finding out that her marriage to Zhou Yan Bang has been given to her sister, Jiang Li commits suicide in the river. Xue Feng Fai has just been murdered by Princess Wan Ning (not her husband) and her body is buried in the mountains. XFF wakes up in the body of Jiang Li. Transmigration of the soul is not a trope of historical fiction dramas of those like LLtG, so now the writers need to change how XFF comes to be Jiang Li that fits the tropes of the genre. Identity swapping is a very standard trope in historical fiction dramas and is used quite frequently in Shakespearean comedies for comic effect.

How does this work in the story to create a parody? The comic element of appearance vs. reality comes into play. XFF becomes Jiang Li in a nunnery a place of kindness and virtue. The camera purposefully shows the sign that says this multiple times because it is important to the story. One night Jiang Li goes out to help XFF (something nunneries were known for)and is caught by the head nun (who is having a tryst with a monk). Jiang Li is beaten to death because everyone thinks she is going out to meet her lover (appearance). In reality, she went out to help XFF. Enter XFF who feels responsible for Jiang Li's death, but has an agenda of her own, switches places with her and dresses in her clothes. XFF is now under the protective clothing of Jiang Li. Remember Jiang Li is sent to the nunnery at the age of 5 because she supposedly tried to hurt her step mother and killed her brother. No one believed her when she tried to tell them she didn't. This is funny because nunneries are supposed to be places where women go to pray, worship, and stay pure. Nunneries helped people. However, this nunnery was not so kind a place nor virtuous. It killed an official's daughter, and the head nun was having a tryst. This drama pokes fun at the nunnery trope of the genre (parody). If a woman doesn't get married, she either becomes a nun or commits suicide (think Princess Yu Chung in LLtG). However, This also leaves XFF with two missions: get revenge for Jiang Li and herself. This is reminiscent of Princess Wei Young (from a girl's perspective).

How does this reflect LLtG? General Ling Bu Yi also has a secret identity. He was saved because he switched clothes with his cousin. Neither his mother nor him feel they will be believed because of the power the perpetrator has, and they are among the powerless: women and children. LBY says, "I had many people to avenge for Ling Bu Yi, the people of Lone City, and his family."

Yes, the writers do create their own story, but it follows closely to that of LBY and SS. When people like AiNong come here to ask if this is a remake of Love Like the Galaxy, you know that people are seeing the similarities. What I wrote about was just the beginning. In the end, Duke Su's grandfather says, "Who dares to hurt my granddaughter-in-law?" Niao Niao's father says in the end, " Who dares to hurt my Niao Niao?). This not a coincidence.

Thank you for the discussion and some other drama recommendations. I have watched 11 episodes of Go Princess Go and found it quite ridiculous. I don't know if it is a parody or not as I don't know all the dramas that were made around that time. I have not seen The Princess Royal, so I can't say whether it is or not, but it could be. As for Ming Lan, I have watched it, but don't remember it. Is she torturing anyone?

Defying Destiny, you're right, LBY is all those things. His character requires him to be like that to create the serious mood of the drama and topics. Duke Su is the exact opposite because his drama requires him to be funny and sweet, but we can still see LBY through Duke Su's mannerisms, dress, dialogue, behaviors, and actions as Duke Su is Ling Bu Yi's double. I have only seen nine episodes of Kunning Palace, so I cannot judge on that character. For me analyzing the difference between the characters is second as to how the characters contribute to the overall mood of the drama. The Double is lighthearted and full of comedy. LLtG is serious with a splash of comic relief. The characters help portray that.

As for the first time LBY drinks tea while he is violently "disciplining" the fathers and brothers of the girls who harmed SS, you're right it is a extrajudicial punishment. But it is a scene that is full of comedy even though they are talking about a serious topic. Later on in the drama, there are other tea and torture scenes as well, but these are not comedic in nature as by this time LBY has come to the end of revenge journey and is full of anger. The Double uses these "tea and torture" scenes to poke fun at LBY's character.

If you would like to know more, please read what I wrote to Talia Too under Eleison two posts down or go to Love Like the Galaxy Part 1 under MikaM.

Thank you for the discussion.

Talia Too, I love your post. You have done an excellent character analysis of our lovely couples from both dramas, but what you have yet to do is figure out what effect each character has on the over all mood of the drama. Love Like the Galaxy's overall mood is serious as it looks at some very serious topics, love being one of them. General Ling's mood is mostly serious and angry. He is driven by his agenda for revenge to the point that it ruins his relationship with SS. His character helps create the seriousness of the drama. Shao Shang, on the other hand, is the exact opposite of him. She helps create the comedy in the drama, but in the end she is also very serious. She portrays the various moods of love whereas LBY only exudes the seriousness of love. He does attempt to be tender, but it falls flat. In LLtG, there is a great deal of character growth in both SS and LBY as they examine what love means to them and their relationship.

However, The Double casts a very different overall mood. Many reviewers have noticed this and don't know what to say except that it is absurd. Yours and others' giggly, lighthearted posts reinforce that this drama is to be taken lightheartedly. Duke Su's goofy grin and laughing eyes, outfit, twirls to get on a chair, fan, dialogue, etc. are all meant to create a comedic mood. He does not grow or change too much in character throughout the entire drama. He is there to represent the flaws LBY has when it comes to love. He is LBY's double. XFF her comedic part is mainly through appearance vs. reality, but she does not grow or change during the drama. As you said in one of your posts, she hides herself when she is married to Shen Yu Rong, but after she dies her true self comes back. That's because her character serves a different purpose in the drama. She is the more serious character, but even she is a comedic character within the drama.

I respect that you have watched far more Asian dramas and movies and know more about the tropes of each genre than I do. But as you said tropes are meant to be expanded and changed to give viewers a different viewing experience. Has there ever been a parody done on the historical fiction genre? With your vast knowledge of Asian dramas/movies, I think you would know. The fact that people do not know what to say about the absurdity of this drama tells me that they do not have much experience in this area. I, on the other hand, have no fear calling this a parody and can provide evidence to the fact in much more detail than I did under my post on LLtG Part 1.

Let's look at the tea and torture scenes. Yes, you have probably seen many scenes where the general is torturing someone and drinking tea to stay hydrated. But what is the mood surrounding that scene. It is probably one of urgency. The music probably reflected this. In LLtG with the torturing of the uncle, who is not even tied to a post, the Black guard drag bloody bodies across the floor in front him, screams are heard in the background, and metal clangs loudly. This frightens the uncle so much that he confesses on the spot. A commenter wrote of this scene, "I wonder if the Black Guard fight over who gets to play what part." Can't remember if LBY has tea or not. It doesn't matter. He does have tea, however, when he "disciplines" the eight officials. Commenters went crazy over this scene. These scenes though comic in nature lighten the seriousness of the scene they are in. LBY's other "tea and torture" scenes are much more serious. He is in full revenge mode. They are not funny in any way. LLtG expanded on the use of the torture trope by using them for comic relief.

Now let's look at The Double's "tea and torture" scenes. The person is tied to the post. There is very little blood. Everything is quiet and still. It is just Duke Su and his two bodyguards. The bodyguards are burning money. The torture is more cerebral rather than physical. But that is what makes it so funny. The same with XFF and her "tea and torture" scene. She is sitting across from Duke Su on a chair and behind her are chains that bind prisoners. She is not even chained up. She is drinking tea along with Duke Su as they banter back and forth. What Is her torture, drink tea with Duke Su? These scenes help create the overall mood of frivolity and lightheartedness of the drama. They are not what we think of when we think of torture. Even though Princess Wan Ning's "torture" scenes are more painful, breaking the brother's leg, we do not see her do it. All she does is pull a knife and threatens to cut the brother's face, and XFF recants her statement. It is a tense situation, but again there is hardly any blood and no noise. The brother's broken leg becomes a comic scene in itself.

The Double's "tea and torture" scenes are parodies on LLtG's tea and torture scenes because the characters in these give up their information or cave in very quickly. In LLtG the characters refuse to give up any information thus leading to the more violent torture. LLtG used the "tea and torture" as comic relief. Here it is done to poke fun at LBY who can't get his prisoners to confess without violent torture.

There are other dramas that are parodied in this as well. The Story of Kunning Palace. They do poke fun at the scene where the couple put flowers in each other's hair. Many characters say, "You are my savior," which could also be implied with LBY. These all done in a comedic way.

If you have questions about how parodies work, just ask. They do not have to be satirical in nature. Parodies imitate an author, a work, or whole genres for comic effect. The Double does this. By the end though, a good parody does teach us something using comedy.

You can watch this drama and treat it as its own drama. That is what you have done and it is okay. I, however, can't see it that way and many other people feel the same way.

Funny, I did too.

Love Like the Galaxy is a wonderful complex, very serious romance. The romance is the main plot line with the revenge as a side arc. The revenge enhances the romance. The Double is quite the opposite. The romance in this drama is a simple, lighthearted side arc that enhances the revenge. Happy watching!

Nanoush, there are more "similarities" than Talia Too is letting on. For starters, from his clothes, dialogue, mannerisms, and behavior, Duke Su is modeled on General Ling Bu Yi (GLBY) the main male lead in LLtG. Duke Su, in the novel, is known for wearing red clothes every time he goes out, but in drama he is only seen in red on the outside three times. The other times he is dressed in black with a red undergarment. The only distinct thing that makes him Duke Su is his fan, but his fan could be compared to GLBY's sword or other weaponry. Also, a couple of scenes where Duke Su tells his bodyguard to go get 20 lashes for some minuscule thing is practically word for word what GLBY says to one of his bodyguards. What makes that dialogue unique though is that it is not found in the novel or any other drama that I have watched in this genre. There is a reason for it in LLtG. In this drama, it is to poke fun at LLtG. There are other characters modeled on characters from LLtG as well, but I will let you discover these little gems yourself.

Another "similarity" is the entire romance plot line, It follows that of LLtG to a T. This could be said to be one the tropes of the genre. However, LLtG's romance is the center of the drama and the revenge is a side arc that enhances the romance. The romance plot line is very serious and complex. In The Double, the romance is a side arc that enhances the revenge story because that is how it is in the novel. The scenes between Duke Su and XFF from the nunnery to the exam banquet are not found in the novel at all. These are purely made up by the screenwriters to follow that of LLtG. There are other plot lines from LLtG that are in this drama as well, but again I will let you discover those on your own.

Finally, many scenes are copied from LLtG. The tea and torture scenes are taken straight from LLtG and not found in any other drama that I have seen or read. Yes, torture is a part of this genre, but the concept of drinking tea along with the torture is something original to LLtG. Again, there are more, but I will let you discover these for yourself.

AiNong has done a good job of finding others and many other people have found other similarities as well. I'm sure if you watch LLtG, you find some as well and then add your own here. Happy watching!

After watching those scenes again, I will offer a different perspective. We know that Duke Su loves Xue Fang Fei and has already claimed her as his wife in episode 2. Yet because of her experience with Yu Rong, she is resistant to love Duke Su because to her love and hate are both bitter (the tea). The abuse from her husband has made her leery of falling in love again, especially with Duke Su as he is using her as a pawn in his own game. She knows she is being used without her consent and tells him that she has just repaid one his favors. Plus, she is just not ready for that type of relationship yet.