Platinum Fox

Good morning to you as well.

I really don't care about Yu Zheng and his plagiarism case. I only brought it up because as you have pointed out these conventions and tropes of the genre lend itself to a formulaic pattern. So what does plagiarism or even intellectual rights appropriation look like? Does the Story of Yan Xi place have a copyright on the discussion of what love is? Which is what LLtG asked?






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Good afternoon. I know I made you angry and frustrated. I apologize.

As I have said before, I do enjoy and appreciate your posts and insights. They are enlightening, but I also do my own research to understand what I am seeing and don't form opinions on how a drama makes me feel (many people do). If I did that, I would have missed out on some great dramas, LLtG being one of them.

The Asian people rated this drama a 6, so you have to ask why is it so popular with the international crowd? I don't have an answer for this, except the comedic elements used in this drama resonates with our style of comedy. The opening scenes could come straight out of a Hollywood horror film. We know she will live (when realistically she wouldn't) because if she didn't, there would not be a drama, unless it was all told in flashbacks which has been done. For me, this drama has a different feel than what I have experienced with other Asian dramas of the same genre. You may not feel the same, that's okay. But it does not make me or other people wrong. If everyone thought the same way life would be boring.

Thank you for the discussion and insight. I enjoyed applying that knowledge to the drama. You may not agree with my interpretation, and that is okay.

Actually, I read many of your posts, and no you are not comfortable looking at dramas from different angles. XFF is not playing chess she is playing Go. Thus the Go board in the opening credits. Duke Su is playing chess.

Another interpretation as to why XFF does what she does is to show that she is not perfect. There is only one reason for that, it is to keep up with the parody going on with Love Like the Galaxy. LBY is made out to be a god, but what he does to SS shows that he is very human. XFF is also.

But you won't admit this, because then you will have to admit they are doing something whether it is copying or parodying LLtG. Something that you are not even willing to consider. You can also say they are parodying Princess Wei Young as she does the same thing when she makes her move. Her poetic justice for this is her husband only gets 10 years to live. So she has a happy ending, but not as happy as it could be. For every bad thing someone does, it shortens the happiness factor at the end.

In one of your posts you said that a director who parodied another would commit career suicide. So I wanted to know why he would parody LLtG. I stumbled across Story of Yan Xi Palace, and I found my answer. The producer of this drama has been plagued with plagiarism suits. What does plagiarism mean when it comes to Asian dramas that are formulaic? So far I would say his career is picking up again with a different audience. This drama was not meant for a Chinese audience, it was meant for the international scene. It is a big hit.

Many other people are seeing what I am seeing in this drama if you are willing to look at it from that perspective.

No, she shouldn't be above the law but because of who she is and what she has been through, no one has been keeping her in check. Thus, she feels like she is above the law. Appearance vs. reality is a huge element in this drama. At first she appears to be above the law, but in reality she is not.

Thank you for the analysis and explanation of the trope. I understand your examples and know to whom you are referring. You're right the writers are following the rules of the trope, but they have done something here that goes beyond the trope. According to the poetic justice trope one woman should go crazy and her son, daughter, and herself should die. This does not happen. She just goes crazy. I am assuming this is the blood debt that you are referring to.

So let's look at the princess in this drama through this trope. The princess has XFF's brother and father "killed" and she steals XFF's husband, poetic justice should be her family should die and XFF should get her husband back. However, poetic justice has played a cruel joke on XFF because the princess' family is already died or soon will be due to rebelling and XFF doesn't want her husband back. Poetic justice in this case would be to let Princess Wan Ning have her husband and fall in love with someone even more powerful. Oh, wait XFF does.

What XFF does goes beyond poetic justice As there is nothing in the drama that would suggest what she does needs to happen. The only reason to do what she does is to do one more twist on another trope, avengers are always good, kind, and nice people who have had something bad happen to them. During the revenge, they remain this way throughout the drama. Thus, they receive a happy ending. In this drama, our heroine does not. She becomes the very thing that she is accused of and does something far worse than stealing a husband. Without just reason, she mentally tortures an already broken woman with the one thing most prized back then, being able to bear children. Poetic justice for this would be to have her husband not come back after going to war. Thus, the ending is perfect for the drama. Now with the extra five minutes, the writers are reinforcing that bad behavior brings a happy ending. Does this happen in real life, yes! Should it happen in our dramas, no!

All of this is revealed through multiple styles of comedy: slapstick, ventriloquism, black comedy, parody, etc. The main one is appearance vs. reality. The one most found in Shakespearean comedies. It is added for comedic effect not relief. But this is for another post.

While I respect all of your knowledge of Asian dramas and explanations of many things, I have to look at them from the perspective of the drama and how each part affects the whole. This is something I know you are not comfortable doing. I, however, do feel comfortable doing it. It is why I can't say these is a masterpiece because it even has issues for what it is trying to be, but it is a strong attempt.

You're right. However, in order to understand how she can get away with all that she does, you have to understand how she became the person she is. You will understand once you watch the whole drama. I don't want to spoil it for you.

Thank you for clarifying the question for me though.

Actually, I do feel bad for her. Her backstory tells you why she comes to behave the way she does. If she is the one to inflict pain, then she is the one who is in power and control. Her life before that was one of her not having any control over her life. She is a princess. One who must marry to form an alliance or become a hostage princess to make sure the two countries will treat each other amicably. Did the central plains tribe treat her with respect? No, she was raped so badly that she lost the ability to have children in a time when that was the most important aspect of womanhood. Hence why she goes back and kills her father.

For me what Xue Fang Fei (XFF) does to the princess as a form of revenge is just pure evil as by that time she has both her father and brother back, and she now loves someone else (poetic justice better than her husband) which makes her an adulterer. XFF is not so innocent. Appearance vs. reality plays heavily into this drama and creates its lighthearted atmosphere, but underneath that lightheartedness is a dark reality. Throughout this drama the writers play with the notion what is worse physical torture or mental torture. Physical torture, people will recover from. Mental torture, on the other hand, lasts a life time. What XFF does is mentally torture a broken woman seeking someone to sincerely love her. The dominatrix behavior is just a facade to show power and control. No woman deserves that kind of treatment despite what she has done. In reality what has the princess really done? She steals XFF's husband and pretends to kill her family to get the man she wants. Shen Yu Rong is responsible for XFF's "death" not the princess. Even she wanted her to live, so that she could mentally torture her some more. Since she would be of higher status, she would have the power and the control over the Shen household.

You can't take this drama at the lighthearted surface level. Underneath it has a dark underbelly.

You will get the princess' backstory soon. I can't remember which episode it is, but just go with the flow for now. When you're done with the drama, it should all make sense to you. If not, I am happy to discuss it with you.

At the airport the first time, he allows her to suffer because he is under the perception that she thinks of him as a brother and the family thinks of him as a brother to her as well. That's why they call him to go get her. Everything she does for him up to the point when he leaves for Yi He after graduation can be interpreted as something a sister would do for her brother. Several times she even says this. It is only at graduation does she say, "I am giving these to my tutor," meaning I am not thinking of you as my brother anymore. However, even though she is saying he is not her brother, she is still distancing herself from him by calling him her tutor. She can't say my boyfriend either because she thinks that he thinks of her as a sister. At graduation neither know what to call each other. He even hesitates in calling her his sister because he is not thinking of her in that way. But because of societal norms, it is embarrassing for a 22 year old to call a 17 year old a friend or girlfriend. It is a cultural thing. When she is 18 and he is 23 it is a different story because she is now the age of majority. The distance between them has been erased. It is why she says in the beginning, "Time does have magic drawing us closer in height and distance."

The age of consent is 14 in China. People have been trying to get it changed with no luck. So if you can't change a law, change people's mindset about the law. DJX is a green flag male because you can interpret his actions as either that of brother or boyfriend when she is 17 and he is 22 depending on your definition of romance and age difference comfort level. Many posters have talked about the age gap even though it is just five years.

I noticed that you also have watched A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial College. That drama also deals with this same topic, but as historical fiction audiences don't think twice about the romance between a 15 year old and 21-24 year old during this time period because it was acceptable at that time. It is only with the passage of time have we changed our perception of childhood.

Thank you for the discussion.

Sorry just saw this. No buts about it. The two of them were very close as children and when she comes to the college he does so much to help her. The last straw for me was when he gets her favorite horse and her childhood bow and arrow for them to go hunting. At first she is very excited about them, but when she finds out he is trying to court her, she throws it down on the ground and states, "I am not a child anymore," it is like a slap in the face on their friendship past and present. By this point, it looks like she just used him to get what she wanted, into the college. She wouldn't even let him express his feelings for her until things became dire. For me, she should have sat down and talked it out with him. However, she just keeps slapping him in the face and disregards their childhood friendship. Makes you wonder if she even cared about him while they were on the frontier.

You are in for a treat.

I disagree with your interpretation of the bar scene. Sang Zhi does not easily get embarrassed. She had guts enough to ask the boys in the dorm room if DJX had a girlfriend. She even had guts enough to ask DJX if he got the fox toy from someone. DJX's giggly smile after she asks lets you know that he realizes she may be interested in him. To test his theory, he tries to flirt with her in the car, but Qian Fei and Sang Yan shut him down. During his college years, remember he does not date anyone or even go out except to work, yet he is called a dog. Why? Because his only interaction with girls in a romantic way is her. In the bar scene, it is the brother who is embarrassed, but agrees with him. It is why the friends move on to a different topic, Sang Yan. The friends are okay with the relationship because the brother is okay with it. Yes, it is embarrassing that a 22 year old man likes a 17 year old, but they would both be considered consenting adults. We know that Sang Zhi would have consented (the fox picture), but perceptions got in the way.

Because of perception it seems that he fell hard and quick at the first snow fall, but in reality he loved her long before that (think Yan XI Palace, Jewel in the Crown). In the end when he is drinking, he feels bad that he didn't recognize sooner that she liked him. Again, her perception of events got in the way. As you state it doesn't take them long to start playing house and acting like a married couple. It is because they have already gone through the "awkward courting phase".

This drama allows the audience to perceive whatever makes them comfortable with the age gap, especially when she is 17 and he is 22. Ask yourself, if Sang Zhi had hooked up with either of the two boys who were her age would we be having this conversation?

Actually, The Double is parodying Nirvana in Fire along with many other dramas Love Like the Galaxy being the main one.

Since you have watched all three Nirvana in Fire, The Double, and Love Like the Galaxy, did you notice all the jokes in The Double on the two other ones?

Lynn, there are several reasons why a lowly princess could act the way she does. One, she grows up that way with no discipline or teaching from her father or mother. Two, she just feels that because she is a princess she is better than everyone else and can have and do whatever she wants. The first two are from the beginning of the drama. The third way is from the later part of the drama. The third reason is because of the trauma she suffered in the central plains tribe. Her father sends her as a hostage princess. While there we know she was raped (probably repeatedly), and lost the ability to have children. She is treated as a pawn by her father and as a play thing by the leader of the central plains tribe. From this experience she learns that being a good docile young lady only brings pain and hardship. if she is the one who inflicts the pain, she holds all the power. On the outside, her dominatrix behavior makes her appear powerful, while on the inside she is just an insecure girl who wants someone to love her sincerely. When Yu Rong returns her handkerchief to her, she mistakes this act of kindness for love. To get what she wants she must be sadistic. In the end, the two of them are a good match. Her dominatrix behavior complements his masochistic personality which he got from dealing with his mother and sister.

The drama is not based on only Hidden Love the novel, but also on The End of Eternity (TEE), the novel shown at least 5 times in the first two episodes. The main characters in TEE are five years apart. The concepts and structure of the drama are based on TEE. It doesn't really matter how many years apart they are 7 (HIdden Love novel) or 5 (TEE). It is the perception of the relationship that each of the characters and the audience holds at the different ages that drive the plot.

You are so funny. A discussion forum is all about learning new things and looking at things in different ways. Learning should extend beyond the classroom. I went through a whole process to reach the conclusion that I did. Otherwise I would have rated this drama a one and been done as it did not add anything new to the genre. But afterwards I had many questions. Why did Sang Zhi speak and act like a child throughout most of the drama? Why does DJX keep saying to Sang Yan, "I am not her brother"? Why does DJX look so happy when he meets her again when she is 17 and angry when they meet up again when she is 18? Why does he pose as her brother in the first place? Why is Zhao Lu Si playing this role? Why is she not playing the role of the 14 year old? She has done before. To answer these questions, I read The End of Eternity, discussed on this forum with other posters, and compared the novel Hidden Love with the drama. I found my answers.

You're right, DJX does help the family because of what they did for him. He buys a light bulb, takes out the garbage, helps put up decorations, tutors Sang Zhi, etc. These are all things he can do without costing him money. But the biggest thing is why does he pose as her brother to visit the school? There is nothing in it for him. Yes, he can repay the kindness that they have shown to him, but then why keep it hidden from the brother and the parents? Just because she requests it? I discussed this scene with a poster at length. It seems to be a cultural thing. In my country you would never get away with that.

You may not have this much curiosity or want to dig beneath the surface, that's okay. I am glad that you enjoyed the drama.

Again, thank you for the discussion, and even though I don't agree with it, your insight.

Yes, the plot and the scenes may come from the novel Hidden Love, but the structure of the drama comes from the novel The End of Eternity (TEE), the book shown five times within the first three episodes. But I want to understand what you are saying, are you saying that because a majority of the people who watched the drama and interpreted DJX's behavior as that of a brother are the only ones who are right? In other words, DJX's character from when Sang Zhi is 14 to when he professes his love for her, was only acting as a brother to her? I have to disagree with you on this.

Let's compare DJX and the brother in just one scene. When the two "brothers" go buy clothes for her because she got her period, the biological brother picks up a light colored skirt. DJX says something to the effect, no she was wearing a dark colored skirt and we don't want Qian Fei to see this difference. The brother replies, "They are all the same," meaning it doesn't matter it is just clothes. At this moment we can see that the brother has not taken into account how his sister looks or her feelings. Most brothers don't as they are too embarrassed to talk about periods with their sisters. DJX, on the other hand, is the perfect "brother" he considers her feelings and her appearance in this matter. However, before this happened, when he calls Sang Yan about the issue, Sang Yan says, "Can't you just buy it?" DJX replies, "I am not her brother," meaning he is looking at her in whole different way. It is why he leaves before she comes out. It is why he gets her warm water and picks the beef out the meat dish. Does her brother do this for her? No, he is too wrapped up in his conversation. Only a "boyfriend" pays attention to how a girl looks and feels and does little considerate things. Perception is what drives this drama. It is what creates the unrequited love story for both of them for when she is 17-19. So either perception is okay. Thus, his confession at the bar is not a joke. No matter what perception you see their relationship through, he did like her when she was 17. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done all the things he does for her.

In addition, in today's world our perceptions of childhood have changed, so even those who see DJX as a pervert, no matter how considerate he is, believe that the age difference is too much, especially when she is 17 and he is 22. That's okay. As according to the laws that pertain to this situation, DJX is a full blown adult, Sang Zhi, on the other hand, is still a child, but she has the right to consent to a sexual relationship. This is why everyone was so concerned when she talks about her older online boyfriend. They don't want her being taken advantage of. We know that she is talking about DJX. DJX is a good guy. He does not take advantage of her in any way at any age.

Finally, if this drama had been set in the 1800s, then we wouldn't have a problem with DJX courting Sang Zhi when she is 14 or even 17. In fact, Zhao Lu Si did a historical drama with much the same romance plot in A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial College. Sang Qi (the name of her character), meets the man she will marry (her brother's friend) when she is roughly 14/15 and he is roughly 21-24. There was romantic music playing (a song that Zhao Lu Si sang). The audience had no problem with this drama. Why? Because the expectation of women to marry was between 15 and 24. After that, they were considered old maids. Today, we consider childhood to be from birth to 18 or 20 (South Korea's age of consent). The marriageable age, however, in China is 20 for females and 22 for males. Yet, the age of consent is 14. So technically, Sang Zhi is still a child (socially speaking) throughout most of the drama, but she is old enough to make choices about sex.

Again, thank you for the discussion. I understand where you are coming from, I just disagree with you. The novel The End of Eternity explains a great deal about what is going on in the drama and why it is structured the way it is.

I have to disagree. DJX (even if it is about him) learned from the hospital incident that you don't joke about things like that. Look at how readily the friends accept this fact when they find out the brother is okay with the relationship. They move on to a different topic.

As for Claudia, she is not wrong in her perception. In fact, the drama is made for this type of discussion. The age of consent is 14 in China. Had DJX courted her then, we would have said he was a pervert. Claudia is just expressing that even at 17 she thinks that DJX is a pervert. But at 17 biologically she is a woman ready to have children. Emotionally though, she still talks and acts like a little kid. DJX is a full blown adult, so yes it would be embarrassing to say, "I like this girl who is 17." But the drama is asking at what age can women begin their own sexual journey? Do they have to wait until they are married at 20 or can it be sooner? Should they only be able to explore their sexuality with people their own age or can they be five years older?

The age of consent law is what is being looked at here. This drama says wait until you are more mature. DJX is a green flag guy. He never once does anything to hurt Sang Zhi physically or emotionally. He waits and expresses his love for her when he feels she will accept him as something other than a brother, but he does fall in love with her before the first snow fall.

Thanks for the discussion. I love this drama and rated it 10 because so much can be discussed about it.

Not quite sure what you are saying and how it relates to the second season, but yes, mom doesn't know how to deal with her because CSS is like her mom, very stubborn, but mom knows she (both herself and CSS) wants to make a contribution to the world. I am assuming that is why mom became a general in her own right. Notice at the end that Shao Shang starts dressing just like her mother, not the empress, her mother. Also, that she starts to team up with HBY to finally rid the empire of the rebels. HBY and CSS finish together what CSS' parents started together.

Yes, in episode 23 he admits that he liked her when she was 17, but was too embarrassed to say anything. That's why all those scenes: the piggy back ride, the essay, the milk bottle, the museum, the claw machine, and bike ride can all be interpreted two ways as a brother or as a boyfriend. The choice is yours.