Platinum Fox

Actually, it is time travel that has been outlawed in radio and visual media, not transmigration. Just search it on google. TIme Travel can still be used in books though.

You're right. Jiang Li would probably not be able to pull off what XFF did at her present age (15). But if she hadn't died from saving XFF who knows what the real Jiang Li would have done when Madam Liu came to visit the nunnery. Because Tong'er knew Madam Liu, it is quite certain that Jiang Li knew her as well and could have found a way to meet with her just like XFF did.

As for all the manipulating XFF did, I have to disagree with you. In my opinion she manipulated two people, Madam Liu and the head nun's man. The head nun made her own choice to keep the man there even though Madam Liu was there to visit. When Madam Liu visits this gives XFF one way to get back to the capital. This is the way she gets to the capital in the novel and does it in a clever way using monkeys.

You state that she also manipulates Duke Su. I disagree. Duke Su willing becomes a pawn in her plan of getting back to the capital. He already understands what happened to her and is eager to see what kind of play she will put on in the future. This is why they banter back and forth about why nuns could and could not be a part of illegal salt trading. This event is all engineered by the screenwriters. It is a way to get our two main leads together earlier than in the novel (they don't really start working together in the novel until the exam banquet at the capital). Duke Su is just another opportunity (not a carefully thought out plan) to get back to the capital.

Yes, XFF is smart and yes smarter than Jiang Li. However, we do not really see why she is so clever until way later in the drama, not in the first five episodes which is what Jaym was trying to say. XFF just uses the opportunities given to her.

I did realize something while writing to you. As we know the drama is called The Double. Many commenters have asked if it has a double meaning. I have my own ideas about it, but people don't like it when I write it. However, the number 2 is very prevalent in this drama. XFF gets revenge for two people. She has two ways back to the capital. Duke Su has two sidekicks. XFF has two really persistent suitors, two really jealous female siblings, two families,, and two women who want her two men, two mothers who want her dead. The list goes on and on.

Thank you for the discussion.

I understand what you are saying. I also understand why XFF needed to be found by the water. This is to reference where Jiang Li committed suicide and how XFF's soul could have transmigrated into her body in the novel. So why did the writers change how XFF became Jiang Li? It was to fit the genre's tropes. Transmigration is another genre and wouldn't work for the purposes of what the writers wanted to do.

This genre is all about tragedy, not comedy. It is about strong, intelligent women fighting for the right to be themselves and not pawns in someone else's game. For this to happen it all starts at the beginning where we must truly believe that our heroine is or can become a strong, intelligent, fight for justice kind of girl. To Jaym, she is not that kind of girl with the information that we have even in the first five episodes. I have to agree with that.

I did finish the drama. I can't say that this is a masterpiece, but I can't say that it is bad either. Did it add anything new to this genre, no. Unless you're willing to look it at from a different perspective. Then, the drama reaches a whole new level and one that is craftily done.

I have to agree with you on this. XFF fights to dig herself out of the muddy grave and then wants to kill herself in the river. It was a little farfetched to me as well. Also, after all of this her dress and hair are not even dirty. Her wrists that were rubbed raw from the rope that bound her were healed.

I have read the novel and XFF becomes Jiang Li by transmigrating into her body, not taking over her identity. The novel is also much darker with Princess Wan killing XFF instead of Shen Yu Rong.

But before I write more, have you watched Love Like the Galaxy? If you have, notice all the references to that drama from XFF taking someone else's identity to Duke Su and his comedic "torture" methods.

I know it has been 4 months since you watched this drama, so don't know how much you remember. I agree with you on Goblin, but for other reasons. But I have to disagree with you on that there was no romance between the two leads when they were teacher and student. There are multiple scenes that can be interpreted as romantic even though there was no hand holding, kissing, or even sex. Romance does not have to be about the physical aspect of love. It can be just about wanting to be near someone, sharing a special moment, or giving an intimate gift. For instance, the scene with the blackboard is a very romantic scene. It is late at night just the two of them, and they are conversing in a language that only few people would understand. Yes, this looks innocent enough, but a true teacher would have taken a photo or filmed what he was doing unobserved and taken it to the parents to show them, not enter the room and proceed to cover the board with math problems. Now a male teacher could have gotten away with it, but it still would have raised questions. What were they doing there so late at night? Fortunately, the video was interpreted as Baek getting back his love of math, but it was also a warning sign to the director (who had her own inappropriate relationship with a student) that this teacher needed to be watched, especially after the teacher had had trouble at another school. I wasn't quite sure why she had been fired from that school or why the students had walked out.

During this time even her husband noticed that she was too close to him and warned her to create boundaries. She didn't heed this warning. The director even told her to start telling her when she was going to take students on field trips. In the end, as the director after multiple warnings and with no changes in the teacher's behavior, I would have fired her as well. Notice in the end, that the teacher does not make a comment over Ye Rin's apology at the news conference. It's because she finally realized what her ex husband to be, father, director, and everyone had been saying, "She had fallen in love with the problem." She fell in love with him when he was a student and she was his teacher.

I understand why people are rating this so low. The message it is sending is that it is okay for students and teachers to have romantic relationships as long as there is no physical relationship. Teachers should not be friends with their students or treat them like a colleague which is what the teacher did.

As for Goblin, fantasy is about redemption there was no need for the goblin bride to be in the drama as the Goblin is not the one who needs to be redeemed. It is the king who needs redemption because he killed two loyal subjects because his evil advisor.

It's because of the topic. People dislike it because of the student/teacher relationship portrayed. It is a good drama about corruption in education though.

I read your post on Hidden Love and wanted to write over here as it pertains to this drama and not Hidden Love. The post on Hidden Love relates to the interpretation of events in both Hidden Love and Melancholia. Yes, the interpretation of events is very important in each drama. However, the interpretation of events in Melancholia has a far greater damaging impact on the person being accused than on the student himself. Something he failed to realize until it was too late. This is why the main couple here has been judged more harshly.

In response to the post above, yes, we have all had crushes on our teachers (had a few myself), but the biggest difference is that most people would never confess this to the actual teacher and give an intimate picture to them. The fact the boy felt comfortable enough to express his feelings to her and gave her a picture tells you that clear boundaries have not been set up.

So while I agree with your last sentence, it is the sentence before that I disagree with. Here's why. First, when they spend the night in the school having a conversation in math on the board, as the teacher, despite her love for the subject, should have either left and talked with him in the morning or filmed him working on the board as an observer. The fact that he is there at night trying to figure out the problem shows you his love for math has come back. She does not need to be there to make this happen. This was clearly a scene that was done for a romantic interpretation scene.

Another one, and for me the most damaging one, is the JeJu Island trip. There are many reasons why this was so inappropriate as a teacher/student relationship trip. First, JeJu Island is known as the most romantic/honeymoon place in Korea even though it has the art museum and research facility. When the boy announces that he is able to go, it sounds like he will go by himself which makes sense as this is an extracurricular activity, not a mandatory school function. And even though she is his advisor, there is no reason for her to be there, as he is old enough to go on his own. If she really wanted to go with him, she should have had a parent go as well. By the end of the trip you can clearly see that the boy has interpreted this as a date and takes advantage of the situation. Something that wouldn't have happened had a parent been along. But the most damaging evidence is that she did not tell the director until after the fact. To add fuel to the fire, after they get back from the museum, they go out to eat together. This is totally not something you do with your student as a teacher. So inadvertently she does lead him on and why the rumors could be true.

All of this and more explain why this drama has been criticized so harshly. A passionate teacher knows how to set clear boundaries.

You said I should watch Melancholia. I have watched the first 9 episodes, so I think I can speak better to the point you were trying to make. In both dramas you can judge the main couples based on their age gap and relationship status. In Melancholia the boy is 18 and the female is probably in her late 20s or early 30s. They are teacher and student. In Hidden Love there is a five year age gap between Sang Zhi and DJX. They consider each other on the surface as brother and sister. In Korea the age of consent is 20. In China as I have stated before is 14. In each of these dramas, even though there is no sexual relationship between our two couples (at least not until Sang Zhi is older) there were scenes in both dramas that could be depicted as romantic scenes. And this is where you need to use the lens of their relationship status.

In Melancholia, I would judge the teacher's actions more harshly than DJX's in Hidden Love because the teacher is in a position of power. One such action I would question is the reason why she went to JeJu Island with him by herself. JeJu Island is known as a honeymoon/romantic trip even though there are other things there like the art museum. When the boy said he got permission to go, it sounded like he was going to go by himself which would make sense as this is an extracurricular activity, not a necessary school field trip. My question is why did she need to go as he could have reported his findings the next day at school? She also looked pretty comfortable with her head on his shoulder after the day was done. To bring this home, there was no reason for her to go out to dinner with him afterwards. As a teacher, you are not friends with your students. You are a person in authority. For me, her actions are more of a lover than a teacher. Also, the boy interpreted this interaction as a date. He took pictures of her and she did not stop him. Furthermore, even after her husband to be and the director warned her to be more careful after the photo incident, she chose not to heed those warnings. There are many more actions of hers that I question as well, but that interaction is what caught my attention the most. Which is why I would judge this relationship more harshly and would even reprimand her for it even though there was no sex involved. Once he turned 20 who cares as she is no longer his teacher and he is an adult.

Now, let's compare this to Hidden Love. First, the relationship between the leads is very different and the age gap is just five years. According to the age of consent law any interactions between our two leads is perfectly legal. Morally is a different story which is what this drama is trying to say. Which makes this a social commentary. Plus, along with the book, The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov which is shown at least five times within the first 30 minutes of the drama. For me, the only scene that really made me stop and question DJX's motives is when he goes to the school in place of Sang Yan. What is in it for him? Later (in the last episode) we find out that Sang Yan gave him permission to go in his place. Thus, this clears up any misunderstandings or interpretations as to his motives, but it emphasizes that he was interested in her from the very beginning. However, I can't judge DJX too harshly because he never does anything inappropriate to Sang Zhi at any time or at any age.

You are right. The interpretation of events in each story is key to the judgement of the actions, but the scenarios are very different which is what Avid Kdrama and cherrymotion were trying to tell you. No one thought you were bashing Hidden Love and even if you were I wouldn't care. It is your opinion. Many people have not liked this drama.

I have watched Hidden Love twice and the first 8 episodes 3 times as I was checking some details. You are right in Hidden Love there was no sexual relationship between Sang Zhi and DJX when she was 14 or 17. I never said there was. But according to the age of consent law (age 14) and the marriage law (marriage law 20 for females and 21/22 for males), they could have carried on a sexual relationship and it would not have been illegal as it would be in other countries. Hidden Love is a social commentary on these two very incompatible laws. The first five minutes of the drama , the doorway scene, the car and dorm scenes, and the hospital scenes emphasize this.

For me personally, a sexual relationship with a 14 or even 17 year old is very wrong as neither is mature enough to know what that means. Hidden Love says the same thing. It says wait until you are old enough to understand all the ramifications and consequences (good and bad) to have a sexual relationship. But is that the reality for any country? If you can't change a law, change the people's mindset about the law. Hidden Love offers an alternative to both laws.

I felt like you, but I have never watched The Story of Kunning Palace. I guess I am going to have to since so many people recommended it. For me, this drama was a mixture of The Story of Ming Lan (and other "The Story of" and "The Legend of" , Princess Wei Young, A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial College, Nirvana in Fire, and definitely Love Like the Galaxy. I felt like this drama didn't know what it wanted to be as it had all this other dramas in it. It is based on a novel which is much darker and three of the main characters are changed tremendously to fit this storyline.

I felt pretty much like you. Although I couldn't stop laughing at how much the drama wanted to be so much like LLt G. Duke Su, for me, never became his own distinct character in my mind because his mannerisms, behaviors, and lines were pretty much based on General Ling. In episode 39, Duke Su's grandpa says, "Who dares to hurt my granddaughter-in-law!" This line comes straight out of LLt G when the dad says in the final episode, "Who dares to hurt my Niao Niao.

There are so many more lines like this that I find it hard to take this as a serious drama.

For me, I found this to be a parody on the relationship between Shao Shang and Ling Bu Yi from Love Like the Galaxy. There are many scenes, lines, and camera angles extremely similar to LLtG. It also plays off of many of the "The Story of... or the "The Legend of..." genre. It reminded me most of Princess Wei Young and The Story of Ming Lan. The end plays off of Nirvana in Fire and A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial Palace.

This is just my two cents and no female lead cries in pretty much every episode.

I have never seen Melancholia. In my country sexual relations between teacher and student, especially before the student turns 18 is considered sexual assault on a minor. Even if the student is 18 and still in high school it is frowned upon. It is also frowned upon even at the college level, but it is not considered illegal. In college the only way the teacher would get in trouble is if the professor traded sex for grades.

Also, in this drama, DJX is not her teacher, he only tutors her (as her brother) in physics with her brother present. However, DJX never does anything inappropriate to Sang Zhi at any time and at any age. Even though by China's age of consent law they could have started a sexual relationship when she was 14.

Did you ever read The End of Eternity?

Yes, I love Prince Huang Chao when he says, "I am willing to heat the water and hand you the towels."

Just to warn you, the novel is very dark and three of the main characters are very different than their counterparts in the drama.

Thank you for providing this wonderful insight into the music that was played by the two girls. I have seen this done in other dramas and found it very beautiful. I also like your insight on the Shakespearean reference about Desdemona.

Kile is poking fun at the fact that every time Duke Su sits down to do anything he always drinking tea and eating. He even does it while he is interrogating Jiang Li.

Yes, you will have to read the novel to find out though as the topics of the novel are quite taboo. These topics are hinted at in the drama in a comedic way, even Duke Su's with his two sidekicks.

I understand what you are saying and no they are not parodies as the books were not written to poke fun at the original novel. As you say, they are only trying to get in on the popularity of that trend of the time. The drama is not a parody on the novels of these books. It is a parody on the dramas themselves which have all come out before this. The screenwriters are poking fun at these popular dramas, not the novels. Your comments helped solidify that for me.

Talia Too, not sure what you are referring to when you said you have tried to tell me a couple of times that it is not a parody. The definition of a parody is an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. The use of the title The Double is that it can be to some people such as yourself and others that it is a distinct drama based on a book in and of itself. Yet, if you look at the characters, what they say (by the way I loved your comments in the discussion), their actions, and beliefs and the over the top acting of the characters lets you know that this is more than just a serious drama. Let me give you an example of what I mean. Duke Su and his two side kicks are General Ling and his two side kicks. One of the side kicks is serious and the other gets disciplined with 20 strokes for nothing. This is to poke fun at when General Ling disciplined Fei with 10 strokes for taking the invitation and 10 strokes for throwing it away when General Ling wanted to go the party. I can go on and on about this. If you would like I can give you more examples from even the other dramas that I mentioned. The first 20 episodes that I have watched were very well done, but unlike yourself (and there is nothing wrong with that and glad you enjoyed it) I can't take this as a serious drama.